fcheslop
Well-Known Member
As others have said but don't overdo the graphite I use a4B pencil rubbed round the piston.Best of luck
best wishes frazer
best wishes frazer
Another Jan Ridder Flame Engine build
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huse0054
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Well my new bearings arrived, I installed them and still no luck, spent 4 hours tonight testing different configurations etc.. Not even a hint of a run. Kinda depressing.
Just spinning flywheel- 25 seconds
Flywheel and piston- 12 seconds
Complete assembly with no flame- 6 seconds.
I hear a very slight rubbing when the piston is about mid stroke but I am scared to give it anymore clearance as I have used lapping compound quite a bit.
Suction seems good and I can complete the test Jan shows with no issues
One thing I did notice is that when the piston pushes the valve open the piston covers the flame hole about 1/4th of the way and when the piston is in the furthest right hand position it is not at the edge of the cylinder.
I will try new fuel when I get a chance, not sure what else to try though as I am currently using denatured alcohol that is brand new. If that doesn't work I guess I might have to try making a new piston and valve out of graphite, that seems to be what others have done.
Just spinning flywheel- 25 seconds
Flywheel and piston- 12 seconds
Complete assembly with no flame- 6 seconds.
I hear a very slight rubbing when the piston is about mid stroke but I am scared to give it anymore clearance as I have used lapping compound quite a bit.
Suction seems good and I can complete the test Jan shows with no issues
One thing I did notice is that when the piston pushes the valve open the piston covers the flame hole about 1/4th of the way and when the piston is in the furthest right hand position it is not at the edge of the cylinder.
I will try new fuel when I get a chance, not sure what else to try though as I am currently using denatured alcohol that is brand new. If that doesn't work I guess I might have to try making a new piston and valve out of graphite, that seems to be what others have done.
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With this engine, at least for me, I have to let the engine get quite hot before it runs. I usually take a blow torch to it to heat it up to get running.
How hot are you getting the engine before you try to start it?
Kel
How hot are you getting the engine before you try to start it?
Kel
huse0054
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Tonight I let the flame heat it up for 10-15 minutes before trying to turn the flywheel. I also tried the blowtorch and it didn't affect it at all. I will try everything possible to get this thing to run, any other ideas?
I can see a very small amount of light around the top half of the piston when looking through the cylinder, is the piston too small?
I can see a very small amount of light around the top half of the piston when looking through the cylinder, is the piston too small?
FWIW, on mine:
Just spinning flywheel- 27 seconds
Flywheel and piston- 16 seconds
Complete assembly with no flame- 8 seconds.
Not drastically different from yours.
My piston is very smooth feeling. It does not cover the flame port at all and is at the end of the cyl in furthest right position. Seems like you might shift your cyl left a bit to correct that.
I have to heat mine a couple mins before it will run. You can see and feel the moisture build up during that time--then it slowly goes away. I wiggle the flywheel/piston back and forth during warm up to help get rid of it. It goes from loose, to tight with the moisture build up, then back to loose again--then it's ready to run. A puff of graphite works for lube.
And as Nick mentioned a couple of times in other build logs--things have to be somewhat loose to work. My connecting rod-to-piston, and connecting rod-to-crankshaft fits have some slop as does the push-rod fit into the top of the valve.
As far as light around the piston--I can see some too but it's not easy. Point it straight at the light--like a telescope--and I can see some around the piston. I was surprised at that.
The most critical thing on mine--I believe--was getting the flame positioned just right. The bottom of my "wick-tube" is only just below the bottom of the flame port. Omnimill's vid was the clue for me to raise the flame up a bit. And Jan has a diagram on his site where to position it and mine is pretty darn close to that now. And work it so that a good blue part of the flame is sucked into the flame port and goes in at an angle towards the cyl.
Just spinning flywheel- 27 seconds
Flywheel and piston- 16 seconds
Complete assembly with no flame- 8 seconds.
Not drastically different from yours.
My piston is very smooth feeling. It does not cover the flame port at all and is at the end of the cyl in furthest right position. Seems like you might shift your cyl left a bit to correct that.
I have to heat mine a couple mins before it will run. You can see and feel the moisture build up during that time--then it slowly goes away. I wiggle the flywheel/piston back and forth during warm up to help get rid of it. It goes from loose, to tight with the moisture build up, then back to loose again--then it's ready to run. A puff of graphite works for lube.
And as Nick mentioned a couple of times in other build logs--things have to be somewhat loose to work. My connecting rod-to-piston, and connecting rod-to-crankshaft fits have some slop as does the push-rod fit into the top of the valve.
As far as light around the piston--I can see some too but it's not easy. Point it straight at the light--like a telescope--and I can see some around the piston. I was surprised at that.
The most critical thing on mine--I believe--was getting the flame positioned just right. The bottom of my "wick-tube" is only just below the bottom of the flame port. Omnimill's vid was the clue for me to raise the flame up a bit. And Jan has a diagram on his site where to position it and mine is pretty darn close to that now. And work it so that a good blue part of the flame is sucked into the flame port and goes in at an angle towards the cyl.
It seems these engines won't run unless they are warmed up but you will get lots of moisture around the inlet port - this must be wiped away before you try starting the engine though, don't let any moisture get sucked into the engine.
Vic.
Vic.
Matt,
Well done on getting this far- mine had similar problems, it would run for a limited time then soot up. Changing my meths to industrial meths helped, ideally, I need a wider wick- think mine is 4mm rather than 7mm dia that Jan specifies.
I have to contradict some of the others on the lubricant thing - I found (idea came when I started building 'poppin' and liasing with another member who had) that mine will only keep running with car engine oil (believe it or not!) Quite a thin grade but when hot, engine oil is very thin and very slippery - it also can deal with the temperature and stops unburnt products from the meths (brown substance you were talking about) from gumming things up.
Maybe the reason I need oil is that my fit between piston, valve and bore isn't as good so it needs the oil to help seal, I think the other advantage is keeping the bore clean - I don't have to strip mine down to clean, just make sure there's enough oil on and let it heat up for 10 or 15 mins before running. The longest run I managed was about 15 mins until the burner ran out. What I really need though is an oil cup at each end for piston and valve, like poppin does for the piston.
I know my comments may seem contraversial - not really, just different and what happened in my experience, worth a try though nothing to lose.
Good luck
Nick
Well done on getting this far- mine had similar problems, it would run for a limited time then soot up. Changing my meths to industrial meths helped, ideally, I need a wider wick- think mine is 4mm rather than 7mm dia that Jan specifies.
I have to contradict some of the others on the lubricant thing - I found (idea came when I started building 'poppin' and liasing with another member who had) that mine will only keep running with car engine oil (believe it or not!) Quite a thin grade but when hot, engine oil is very thin and very slippery - it also can deal with the temperature and stops unburnt products from the meths (brown substance you were talking about) from gumming things up.
Maybe the reason I need oil is that my fit between piston, valve and bore isn't as good so it needs the oil to help seal, I think the other advantage is keeping the bore clean - I don't have to strip mine down to clean, just make sure there's enough oil on and let it heat up for 10 or 15 mins before running. The longest run I managed was about 15 mins until the burner ran out. What I really need though is an oil cup at each end for piston and valve, like poppin does for the piston.
I know my comments may seem contraversial - not really, just different and what happened in my experience, worth a try though nothing to lose.
Good luck
Nick
huse0054
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Thanks for the input everyone, what a fantastic website!!!!
I will try what you all have recommended and am determined to get it running.
It seems flame position is extremely critical, I will try be more precise when testing different positions.
John, fantastic twin design! Would you mind elaborating on a couple things I noticed from your video?
- Is your flame port size to Jan's plans? It looks slightly smaller but that could be an optical illusion.
-Is the wick actually touching the cylinder?
- Am I correct that the diameter of your burner tube is 1/4"?
Thanks
I will try what you all have recommended and am determined to get it running.
It seems flame position is extremely critical, I will try be more precise when testing different positions.
John, fantastic twin design! Would you mind elaborating on a couple things I noticed from your video?
- Is your flame port size to Jan's plans? It looks slightly smaller but that could be an optical illusion.
-Is the wick actually touching the cylinder?
- Am I correct that the diameter of your burner tube is 1/4"?
Thanks
huse0054 said:Interesting Vic, I am not sure it truly matters much but any ideas on why your flywheel would spin for more than twice as long as WinklMJ and mine? Or are you just stronger than us?
Don't know, maybe it's the bearings? They are the same size suggested by Jan and un-shielded.
My engine does run quite slow under flame:
Vic.
You do need as little friction as possible but I don't think mine coasted for quite as long as Jan stipulated. I know it's pretty low friction though as it always comes to rest in a certain place - out of balance slightly, I didn't put any kind of counter balance on my crank.
I think they all run slowly, as Bogs said, it'll run slowly or not at all, you can't really vary speed by altering flame - just switch it on or off! Whenever I run mine I forget exactly where the flame needs to be and it takes a while to sus out!
Have you thought of making pistons from graphite?
I think they all run slowly, as Bogs said, it'll run slowly or not at all, you can't really vary speed by altering flame - just switch it on or off! Whenever I run mine I forget exactly where the flame needs to be and it takes a while to sus out!
Have you thought of making pistons from graphite?
One other thing I forget. It sounds silly but try running it with a butane fireplace starter. It burns much cleaner than the alcohol. That might help if you think it's the residue stopping it from running.
And my first wick was a ratty piece of cotton and then a tiki-torch wick. They both left some brown gunk. I got a real lamp wick. It still leaves some residue but not nearly as bad as the others did.
And my first wick was a ratty piece of cotton and then a tiki-torch wick. They both left some brown gunk. I got a real lamp wick. It still leaves some residue but not nearly as bad as the others did.
I used this stuff from Germany:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ee-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1#ht_1517wt_907
Vic.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....ee-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1#ht_1517wt_907
Vic.
huse0054
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I am currently using a glass wick and brand new denatured alcohol, however I think I may have found the problem.......
My piston and valve were 2 1/2 thousandths smaller than the cylinder. Looks like my lapping went a little too far. I went ahead and remade the piston but did not have time to remake the valve. So back to testing tonight and I managed to feel some form of success. It felt like it was trying to go and I could definitely feel that some of the strokes were under power. I will remake the valve and try again and hopefully that will solve the problem.
My piston and valve were 2 1/2 thousandths smaller than the cylinder. Looks like my lapping went a little too far. I went ahead and remade the piston but did not have time to remake the valve. So back to testing tonight and I managed to feel some form of success. It felt like it was trying to go and I could definitely feel that some of the strokes were under power. I will remake the valve and try again and hopefully that will solve the problem.
