warranator
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With regards to the bearing id, no worries mate.
anyone interested in a radial team buid
- Thread starter chrispare
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
maverick
Well-Known Member
OK, Team Build 6 is off and running. I know Pat is working on drawings so I'll busy myself with bushings and gathering material
for a few days. November will be here soon enough. Good luck Guys.
Regards,
Mike
quote:
Ok so we now have 9 members,, so lets do 10 engines ,1 extra to go to any shows for a year then auction it off to go to a chairity (My daughter has Cystic Fibrosis so my vote would be for that one)
sounds perfect charity to me.
ill make 10 oak base plates and make sure all are send out with the right amount of nuts and bolts. on bottom i'm thinking of writing the link to this site? (i'm open for options and thought
) ill make brass plates with serienumbers. 001 should be the one for auction i think (some sort of certificate for that one too?), rest send out randomly?
Pascal
Ok so we now have 9 members,, so lets do 10 engines ,1 extra to go to any shows for a year then auction it off to go to a chairity (My daughter has Cystic Fibrosis so my vote would be for that one)
sounds perfect charity to me.
ill make 10 oak base plates and make sure all are send out with the right amount of nuts and bolts. on bottom i'm thinking of writing the link to this site? (i'm open for options and thought
) ill make brass plates with serienumbers. 001 should be the one for auction i think (some sort of certificate for that one too?), rest send out randomly?Pascal
[/quote]
ill make 10 oak base plates and make sure all are send out with the right amount of nuts and bolts. on bottom i'm thinking of writing the link to this site? (i'm open for options and thought
) ill make brass plates with serienumbers. 001 should be the one for auction i think (some sort of certificate for that one too?), rest send out randomly?Pascal
[/quote]
I like the serieal number Idea as well as having this sites address on it . It would be nice to have the team build # on it as part of the serial# too.
I went and got the material today so when we get those updated drawings im ready.
chris
Anyone know what number Team build this is??
maverick
Well-Known Member
Chris,
This is team build #6. I also like the serial numbered plaques. If everyone agrees, I can mark the face of the flywheel with " HMEM - Team Build 6 - 2011" or what ever you can suggest. Just a thought.
Regards,
Mike
This is team build #6. I also like the serial numbered plaques. If everyone agrees, I can mark the face of the flywheel with " HMEM - Team Build 6 - 2011" or what ever you can suggest. Just a thought.
Regards,
Mike
maverick said:
I like the idea. I stamped tb4 on the top of the cylinder block.
think it would look nice to put "hmem TB6 2011" on the flywheel.
i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly?
for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think
Pascal
i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly?
for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think
Pascal
pcw said:think it would look nice to put "hmem TB6 2011" on the flywheel.
i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly?
for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think
Pascal
Can't wait to see it, sounds perfect.
Path how are those drawing comin along?
Chris
maverick
Well-Known Member
Pascal,
My wife is in the respiratory care field and works with cystis fibrosis patients.
I think the plaque is a fine idea.
Regards,
Mike
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Sounds good to me Dale
maverick said:
Chris came up with this charity. believe his daughter has cystic fibrosis. to me, sounds perfect cause for me. think others agree since i didnt hear any disagree
stinks having bad lungs. lost part of a lung due to a accident when i was 17. iron bar went straight through my chest/lung, missing my heart by an inch. isnt the same by far, but still. thats why it sounds good to me, i dont have much problems with my remaining lung now, legs/feet are totaly different story
Pascal
maverick said:
I like it.
pcw said:think it would look nice to put "hmem TB6 2011" on the flywheel.
i go on with the serienumbers plaques, all agree on no1 for the auction engine and rest randomly?
for the no1 engine ill make brass plate under the base with short text that its build by people from all over the world, stating its build to raise money for Cystic Fibrosis research and link to this forum? let me know what you think
Pascal
Agreed ...
Pat H
chrispare said:
Chris ...
Okay a short status on the drawings.
About 95% complete as of noon my time today 9/8/11.
Most of what is left just needs to be touched up a bit. Others I need to figure out how to do ... small stuff of no real consequence,
like the decorative parts of the flywheel ... basic is done but not those curved cutouts. I will pick those up later, when there is more time.
There are things about the drawing format the I don't care for ... but I'm not going to take the time now (again later) to try and change them.
The next step ... I plan going through each drawing to be sure I haven't made any errors. I caught most of them during the assembly process, so that should be easy. I will also look for things that are on Stew's drawings that I didn't include. Other unknown issues that will crop up and we know that Murphy is lurking somewhere in the wind. ???
Later today (I hope) I will post the findings so that we start a discussion on how to proceed ...
Later,
Pat H
warranator
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CF charity sounds good to me.
chrispare said:
Chris ...
Wow .. who makes those bearings. If that ID is correct it will make the Crank very sloppy!
I downloaded a McMaster Carr bearing which has an ID of 0.375" +0.000 to -0.003. The -0.003 is still way too much.
Looked at another bearing (NSK) and it is spec'd at 0.0003 or so. Need to look into that in more detail.
Pat H.
Drawing update ...
Done ... well almost ... still have the Breather (#23) to do and a few minor adjustments here and there, but ready to go.
Nearly 30 drawings in all. One part per page, makes them nice and big, most have a of scale 2:1.
Recall that I said these drawings would provide both metric and imperial numbers and they do. But no tolerances ... Stew's
drawings are for modelers, not for production nor 9 different vendors (us in this case). To provide tolerances would require a
complete redesign ... not for us.
Issues:
1. Crank Case (#18) ...
Probably the most critical part of all. Most other parts mount on this part. Holes must placed as shown
just right or the mating part won't fit. Some parts have the same dimension as the mating part ... for example; the Main Bearing Housing ...
has a insert diameter of 31.75mm the Crank Case also 31.75mm. The Cylinder Liner is wider then the CC. How to handle this and other parts like it
needs to be resolved before starting. This would not be an issue when a single person is making it as they could easy modify as required along the way.
There are 3 M2 threaded holes that are used to mount the Port Flange. Stew reports that he ended up using what he had on hand ...the smallest countersunk screws that he had ... the 8BA has major diameter of 2.2mm with a pitch of 0.43mm. We might want to change it to imperial 2-56 flat head and mail the 3 screws with the CC.
Needs the holes for the stand.
2. Crank Shaft (#16) ...
It doesn't line up with the Return Crank slot. Just a tad lower ... maybe not a big deal if all other parts are right on ... but if not built in our favor it might have to be slimmed down at the slot. We'll see.
3. Port Flange (#21) ...
The total length of the part needs to be changed from 9.54mm to 8mm. Otherwise it sticks inside the Crank Case too far ... the Return Crank won't be position correctly.
4. Slave Rod (#17) ...
The dim 11.91mm should be 12.02mm , believe this a math error.
5. Return Crank (#19) ...
The radius is 25.4mm but the distance from the bottom to the top is given
as 25.4mm this should be 25.17.
6. Cylinder Liner (#7) ...
If built per print the Crank Shaft may hit the Liner .. may have to trim down the 15.88mm radius.
7. Slave Rods(#17) and Master Rod (#2) ...
The Center Lines and width dimensions are very important to be maintained. They line up
the 3 Cylinders. The accumulative total will play a key role the location of the 3 pistons. If
too short they will be sloppy, too big it will bind the piston.
8. Spacer (#15) ...
The nominal width is 2mm, if built to print needs to be trimmed to 1.2mm. This lines up the top piston and its rod to the Crank Shaft.
Which is depend on the Crank Case Housing wall thickness and the location of the bearing.
9. Bearing (#15) ...
So far the ID is too far from the Crank Shaft diameter ... this needs to be looked at before the parts are built.
That's it for now.
I need to just figure out the best way to make the drawing available ... what format.
I will out of town till Sunday night ...so I won't be able to answer any questions after
say 9:00am my time Saturday until Sunday night after 9:00pm.
Pat H.
Done ... well almost ... still have the Breather (#23) to do and a few minor adjustments here and there, but ready to go.
Nearly 30 drawings in all. One part per page, makes them nice and big, most have a of scale 2:1.
Recall that I said these drawings would provide both metric and imperial numbers and they do. But no tolerances ... Stew's
drawings are for modelers, not for production nor 9 different vendors (us in this case). To provide tolerances would require a
complete redesign ... not for us.
Issues:
1. Crank Case (#18) ...
Probably the most critical part of all. Most other parts mount on this part. Holes must placed as shown
just right or the mating part won't fit. Some parts have the same dimension as the mating part ... for example; the Main Bearing Housing ...
has a insert diameter of 31.75mm the Crank Case also 31.75mm. The Cylinder Liner is wider then the CC. How to handle this and other parts like it
needs to be resolved before starting. This would not be an issue when a single person is making it as they could easy modify as required along the way.
There are 3 M2 threaded holes that are used to mount the Port Flange. Stew reports that he ended up using what he had on hand ...the smallest countersunk screws that he had ... the 8BA has major diameter of 2.2mm with a pitch of 0.43mm. We might want to change it to imperial 2-56 flat head and mail the 3 screws with the CC.
Needs the holes for the stand.
2. Crank Shaft (#16) ...
It doesn't line up with the Return Crank slot. Just a tad lower ... maybe not a big deal if all other parts are right on ... but if not built in our favor it might have to be slimmed down at the slot. We'll see.
3. Port Flange (#21) ...
The total length of the part needs to be changed from 9.54mm to 8mm. Otherwise it sticks inside the Crank Case too far ... the Return Crank won't be position correctly.
4. Slave Rod (#17) ...
The dim 11.91mm should be 12.02mm , believe this a math error.
5. Return Crank (#19) ...
The radius is 25.4mm but the distance from the bottom to the top is given
as 25.4mm this should be 25.17.
6. Cylinder Liner (#7) ...
If built per print the Crank Shaft may hit the Liner .. may have to trim down the 15.88mm radius.
7. Slave Rods(#17) and Master Rod (#2) ...
The Center Lines and width dimensions are very important to be maintained. They line up
the 3 Cylinders. The accumulative total will play a key role the location of the 3 pistons. If
too short they will be sloppy, too big it will bind the piston.
8. Spacer (#15) ...
The nominal width is 2mm, if built to print needs to be trimmed to 1.2mm. This lines up the top piston and its rod to the Crank Shaft.
Which is depend on the Crank Case Housing wall thickness and the location of the bearing.
9. Bearing (#15) ...
So far the ID is too far from the Crank Shaft diameter ... this needs to be looked at before the parts are built.
That's it for now.
I need to just figure out the best way to make the drawing available ... what format.
I will out of town till Sunday night ...so I won't be able to answer any questions after
say 9:00am my time Saturday until Sunday night after 9:00pm.
Pat H.
I measured again with a differeng caliper and they are right on 9.53-9.55
I think that the battery is going in my other guage oops.
I would say fix those problems however looks best as you have all the drawings in front of you (not to mention that you seem to know what you are doing) HAHA
CHRIS
I think that the battery is going in my other guage oops.
I would say fix those problems however looks best as you have all the drawings in front of you (not to mention that you seem to know what you are doing) HAHA
CHRIS
dsquire
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Gentleman
First off, good luck with the team build. May everyone hit the numbers dead on with all the pieces fitting perfectly.
I would be very hesitant to start the team build from a new drawing that has a lot of changes or questions on it. If an engine has already been built from the drawing exactly as drawn then it would be OK. This would check out the drawing as being OK.
If it was being built as 10 engines in one shop you might get away with it because you would have the parts to test fit and could make changes on the fly if need be. If it is built as 10 engines in 9 different shops around the world then the chance of parts not fitting are too great. I have worked as design draftsman for too many years and know what is likely to happen in the above scenario.
"There are 3 M2 threaded holes that are used to mount the Port Flange." You have mentioned that they might be changed to a 2-56 imperial thread. My advice would be to keep them as a metric thread. Change the size if need be, redesign if need be but please don't mix threads on an international build like this. Can you imagine the frustration of taking something apart and having to find a replacement screw (imperial) when all the rest are metric. Don't cause your kids or grand-kids to use foul language.
Please don't take this as criticism. It is not meant that way but as a means of helping to avoid a possible problem before it becomes one. I will be following along as the build progresses. :bow:
Cheers
Don
First off, good luck with the team build. May everyone hit the numbers dead on with all the pieces fitting perfectly.
I would be very hesitant to start the team build from a new drawing that has a lot of changes or questions on it. If an engine has already been built from the drawing exactly as drawn then it would be OK. This would check out the drawing as being OK.
If it was being built as 10 engines in one shop you might get away with it because you would have the parts to test fit and could make changes on the fly if need be. If it is built as 10 engines in 9 different shops around the world then the chance of parts not fitting are too great. I have worked as design draftsman for too many years and know what is likely to happen in the above scenario.
"There are 3 M2 threaded holes that are used to mount the Port Flange." You have mentioned that they might be changed to a 2-56 imperial thread. My advice would be to keep them as a metric thread. Change the size if need be, redesign if need be but please don't mix threads on an international build like this. Can you imagine the frustration of taking something apart and having to find a replacement screw (imperial) when all the rest are metric. Don't cause your kids or grand-kids to use foul language.
Please don't take this as criticism. It is not meant that way but as a means of helping to avoid a possible problem before it becomes one. I will be following along as the build progresses. :bow:
Cheers
Don
Don, I think that part of the challange of a team build is getting a running engine built from different people and different shops.(weather from new plans or old ones)
All I can say is bring on the challange,
chris
All I can say is bring on the challange,
chris
