Space driven decision 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

[rsuarez]

Hey all,

First post here… I’ve read a lot and it’s just now that I’ve decided to get some help on deciding which machine to get. A little bit of me.

My name is Ramon and I live some time in Mexico City and I say some time because I travel through Latin-America for business 3 out of 4 weeks.

I have a chronicle weakness for motorcycles and tools. This is my small shop some two years ago. Now where the XR is I have a sandblasting cabinet and a Lincoln multi-process welder.



Now to the topic. At 12 I learnt some basic machining in an EMCO Unimat lathe and mill my father had and now I own. I want to grow to something bigger and as you can see from my shop picture space is a very critical criteria. Space is the most valuable asset in my shop to be honest.

I want something good (who doesn’t) that can cover my hobby and curiosity necessities. Enough power for hard materials (Unimat frustration) and I think that 10x24 would be enough… even I am not closed to something bigger.

I’ve read a lot about not getting a 3 in 1 but frankly I don’t have the space to do it … so please don’t try to convince me of getting separate machines. Financially it would be very expensive because I would need to buy a new house…

These are the options I have looked so far and to me the closest to my liking need. They are in order and will appreciate any comment you have mainly over quality, reputation, functionality or so.

In preference order

1.- Bolton Tools 11" x 28" High Precision Variable Speed Combo Lathe W. DRO - Combo Lathe/Mill/drills | BPD290VF (http://boltontool.com/Lathes/lathe-mill-drill-combo/high-precision-variable-speed-combo-lathe-w-dro)

Seems very complete for the Price but I don’t have a clue if its worth. It seems to me that this is the same (or very similar) as the Optimum TU2506 which gets some good reviews and can also be adapted with a mill. Unfortunately I have not found a good distributor for these in the US. Only Grainger but they don’t carry the 3 in 1 option.

2.- Grizzly G0791. (http://www.grizzly.com/products/12-X-36-Combination-Gunsmithing-Lathe-Mill/G0791)

I like it also but again I have no reference about the quality and reliability of Grizzly.

3.- Smithy Granite. (http://www.smithy.com/3-in-1).

I found more information about this one and seems to get from average to good reviews. My concern with this one is the distance from the mill to the table. It looks that for any serious work I would need a table raiser.

So, there are other options I’ve looked at but these are the ones I think will fit better. If any one thinks I should consider something else please jump in… I will appreciate it.

It’s tough from a novice perspective to make this decision. So many things to consider and I guess so many other I am not even aware of that are important. Maybe I am another dumb guy getting into a 3 in 1 mistake… please speak up, I will be humble to listen from you guys that clearly know better than me.

I really will appreciate any help.

Best

Ramon

 

[Wizard69]

You have other options. For example:

Buy a lathe of the size you think will serve your needs and then buy a smallish mill to replace the drill press you already have. It is possible to do all drill press work on these small mills. Even a small milling machine will be more useful than the 3 in 1 solutions out there.

 

[ninefinger]

Speaking from experience the main drawback of my 3-in-1 machine was a complete lack of rigidity for either turning or milling. It was closest in design to the Smithy (their Midas, not the Granite you linked). However the Granite does appear to have some of the same drawbacks - the Headstock casting isn't very beefy and sits relatively high to the bed due to the size of the cross slide table, and the mill has a really long overhang. I personally think that either of the other 2 are much better in that they at least started out as respectable lathes and have an added on mill portion that may be functional enough for your purposes.
If it were my money the Grizzly would win simply for the cam lock chuck - not having to unbolt a chuck has been the greatest upgrade for me in my shop when I went from a 3-in-1 with bolt on chuck to a lathe with cam lock spindle nose. Now going from 3 jaw to 4 jaw or 5C is a breeze...(still need to buy a face plate).
My 2 cents
Mike

 

[bazmak]

I would not buy a combination machine unless absolutely necessary
With a lathe and small mill you can go from one machine to the other
without time consuming setups.The combination mcs just get in each others way for different ops.Tried it and wouldent go back.Bought the sx2 mill
and sold my drill.Far superior

 

[Wizard69]

I might add that the "mill" solutions on a lot of 3in1's are extremely limited capability wise. That is why even a small milling machine can out do them in capability.

 

[Blogwitch]

Ramon,

As mentioned by Wizard, you already have a drill press in your shop, get rid of it and install something like a sieg X2, then you will have free reign to select a lathe in the size you really require, and it will most probably cost less all in than the 3 in 1 combination.

I have seen these 3 in 1's in action, and in all honesty, they are very limited in their capabilities and very costly in setup times. OK, things can be made on them, but with little experience, you will suffer badly in the size and quality stakes that you can achieve compared with two seperate machines.

John

 

[ShopShoe]

Ramon,

I would echo what others are saying: Separate machines would be better than a 3-in-one machine. I have also seen that others with space limitations like yours have used them for the reasons you say. I can suggest that perhaps another path does lie open to you.

Go ahead and consider one of the 3-in-ones you have selected. Focus on the lathe capabilities when making your final decision. Prepare for the day you will decide that you can still use the lathe and want to buy a mill for your milling needs. At that point you could maybe decide that the drill press is no longer needed.

Would moving your sandblasting cabinet outside be an option?

—ShopShoe

 

[bigfoot21075]

Ramon,

As mentioned by Wizard, you already have a drill press in your shop, get rid of it and install something like a sieg X2, then you will have free reign to select a lathe in the size you really require, and it will most probably cost less all in than the 3 in 1 combination.

I have seen these 3 in 1's in action, and in all honesty, they are very limited in their capabilities and very costly in setup times. OK, things can be made on them, but with little experience, you will suffer badly in the size and quality stakes that you can achieve compared with two seperate machines.

John

I too am new and have a very old craftsman drill press. Is it not useful to have a separate drill press or is something like that Sieg X2 able to to most all of the general drill press work? This idea would help me out tremendously.
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=4962&category=1387807683

 

[rodw]

The best thing I ever did was to get rid of my Smithy 3 in 1 and drill press and buy a Seig SX3 mill and a good sized 13" swing lathe. I managed to fit them both in a 2.4 x 4.8m shed. It took 3 months to work out where to put my drillpress as I knew if I could fit it in I could fit in a mill.... you have more space than I have... I found putting the mill on an angle near the door solved the space problem. I don't miss the drill press.

 

[Blogwitch]

Bigfoot,

Something like the X2 would be fine for use as a drill press as well as a small mill, and if you wanted really big holes, then you could bore them out much larger than you could with a normal sized drill press and twist drill. It also has the advantage that accurate coordinate drilling can be done as well, which can be rather difficult on a standard drill press. Except for the cost, it is win win all round.
I am lucky in that I run a rather large mini bridgeport (Chester 836), but I have recently bought a Super X2 as a CNC project, and after giving it a good dose of looking at, it looks to be a good, all round capable machine.

John

 

[bazmak]

I got the sx2 mill and got rid of the drill press,dont miss it.The mill is far superior drill press,especially for drilling at accurate centres
Changinging from from mill/collet to drill chuck is the only minor inconvenience
and only takes a minute ,I can live with that.If I had space and money then I would have 2 mills.One setup for drilling

 

[110samec]

What about getting a normal lathe but purchase a milling attachment to go on the cross slide like this http://www.warco.co.uk/mini-lathe-accessories/302794-mini-lathe-vertical-slide.html ? I would imagine it would be slightly more rigid than the combination machines and wouldnt be in the way

 

[Blogwitch]

Basically 110, fitting a vertical slide is putting machining back 30 years.

Many people think they are the best things since sliced bread, and each to his own, but after a while using one with ALL of it's limitations, the decision to buy a dedicated mill usually soon comes along.

There are many of those horrid things hiding under benches after people realise that they had thrown good hard earned money away. I turned mine into stock for making little engines.

OK, they did function at the time, when nothing else was available, but now, I wouldn't give one to my worst enemy (well maybe I would).

John

 

[rodw]

What about getting a normal lathe but purchase a milling attachment to go on the cross slide like this http://www.warco.co.uk/mini-lathe-accessories/302794-mini-lathe-vertical-slide.html ? I would imagine it would be slightly more rigid than the combination machines and wouldnt be in the way

This is not such a bad idea and was always my fallback until I worked out how to dump my drillpress and install a mill. Follow my journey
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/showthread.php?t=19885

 

[rsuarez]

Hey, thanks to all... very good information.

Even though I wrote that this was a space driven decision and to please restrain from suggesting separate machines, we ended up there.

I guess that if here, and in any other forum, all 3 in 1 threads end into separate machines suggestions there has to be a really strong reason from the people who know.

So, thanks for getting me out of that idea... I will scale down a little bit the machines and will go separate. This will requiere some redesign of my shop but thats part of the fun.

Any brand suggestion? Grainger Mexico seems to be importing Optimum which are popular in Europe. And then I can import from the US... Grizzly? Jet? Little Machines?

Again, many thanks.

Ramon

 

[Nick Hulme]

Unless you can find an Emco VP11 with milling head? ;-)
Another option is a milling head which mounts at the tailstock end like the Amolco, if you search and have a look at some photos of the Amolco I can't see any reason not to pull a nice small column and head off it's base and make your own mount for the lathe of your choice.

- Nick

 

[rsuarez]

Well you see, in part one of my thoughts about getting some of those 3 in 1 I proposed was that since they have actual milling towers I could eventually detach them if I found more convenient to have two machines. I still see logic in this, but there are such amount of negative opinions in 3 in 1s that prefer to trust the wisdom here.

Best.

Ramon.

 

[petertha]

Grainger Mexico seems to be importing Optimum which are popular in Europe. And then I can import from the US... Grizzly? Jet? Little Machines? Ramon

I don't have personal experience with Optimum, but check out Stefan's site & Youtube channel. I think his mill & possibly lathe too?
http://gtwr.de/?page_id=9&lang=en
https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl

If you can source from USA with reasonable shipping, lots of good options. PM gets good reviews from some guys here in Canada for international shipping. I heard some machines are a bit better if Taiwan models. Maybe larger than what you are seeking, but just throwing out more options to check.
http://precisionmatthews.com/index.html

 

[Rhynardt1]

Hi Ramon

Are you by any chance from IFDC?

 

[grapegro]

Hello Ramon,
From my experience, a lathe/ mill combo is hard to see what is happening to some processes, but very clear with a separate mill. I have just recently bought an Optimum mill, and can only speak loads for the quality of this machine.
Norm