Definite Blunder

Discussion in 'Mistakes, Blunders and Boo Boos' started by Jennifer Edwards, Nov 19, 2018.

Help Support HMEM by donating:

  1. Dec 19, 2018 #21

    Blogwitch

    Blogwitch

    Blogwitch

    Ex Bogstandard HMEM Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,697
    Likes Received:
    667
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Aeronautical Engineer
    Location:
    Crewe, Cheshire, UK
    I have an old saying that I used to repeat to myself

    ACCIDENTS DON'T HAPPEN, THEY ALWAYS HAVE A CAUSE

    John
     
    10K Pete and Dubi like this.
  2. Dec 19, 2018 #22

    ignator

    ignator

    ignator

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2012
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    13
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    USA, Iowa
    Yes, but "root cause analysis" typically takes a catastrophic event for engineers to see the error of their design. And as you know, most aircraft accidents are pilot error. And there is yet a system designed to over come that.
    John don't know if you worked for BAE, my first job was in an autopilot group, Collins Radio, installing our system in the BAE HS 125-800 (Proline 2 avionics system ~1985).
     
  3. Dec 19, 2018 #23

    davidyat

    davidyat

    davidyat

    Well-Known Member HMEM Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired/Self Taught Machinist
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    My mentor, Ray Clyde, taught me the machining basics and more. His two rules, "Machining will teach you patience" and "When something goes wrong, it goes wrong before you know it". I've been building models for over 50 years and I had the "patience" learned. The second part I learned very quickly. I was flycutting a small piece of metal on the mill at a pretty high speed. I didn't know I took too much of a cut on one pass. I heard a big BANG on my metal garage door and when I looked down, the metal was gone! IT WILL GO WRONG BEFORE YOU KNOW IT. BE SAFE!!!
     
    Dubi likes this.
  4. Dec 20, 2018 #24

    Jennifer Edwards

    Jennifer Edwards

    Jennifer Edwards

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Retired E-Commerce Sytems Architect
    Location:
    Bridlington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK
    I'll share another horror story about taking safety shortcuts with y'all:

    Back in the early 80's I worked as a tool room machinist for a company called Solar turbine, in San Diego. We had a metal stamping department with a large variety of presses ranging from a few tons up to about 25 tons. they were used to stamp out mostly aluminium, titanium, and stainless steel bits.

    They were all equipped with several good safety features, not the least of which were two big red buttons and a foot pedal all of which had to be depressed to actuate the press.

    It was the beginning of summer, and as was usual, we hired a few kids from the area as "interns" to perform production runs on machines we would set up for them.

    On his first day a young man of maybe 17 or 18 years thought he would help increase production by taking those pesky red buttons (that forced you to have your hands clear of the dies in order to actuate the drop hammer/hydraulic cylinder) by duct taping them down. this left only the foot pedal needed to trigger the press he was working on.

    He was stamping out parts that took both hands to insert and align. Of course when he leaned forward to insert a part his foot naturally came down.... both hands at the wrist!

    I know many of us routinely defeat safety features on our machines because they seem like thay were designed by some sadist. please think twice about the possible consequences saving those few seconds before you do.

    have a safe and happy holiday everyone.
    Jenny in Bridlington
     
    Dubi likes this.
  5. Dec 20, 2018 #25

    Blogwitch

    Blogwitch

    Blogwitch

    Ex Bogstandard HMEM Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2008
    Messages:
    3,697
    Likes Received:
    667
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Aeronautical Engineer
    Location:
    Crewe, Cheshire, UK
    Ignator,

    You have proved my saying straight away,

    "most aircraft accidents are pilot error"

    It can be a transistor burning out, the tip of a tool breaking off or even snow falling off a roof, they are not accidents, they will all have a cause.
    I have seen too many major 'accidents' in my life and I refuse to accept they ALL don't have a cause.

    John
     
    ignator and 10K Pete like this.
  6. Dec 23, 2018 #26

    GrahamJTaylor49

    GrahamJTaylor49

    GrahamJTaylor49

    Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hi Jenny,
    I did my apprenticship with Vickers and BAC as an Aircraft Toolmaker. It taught me a great deal about what can go wrong. After I left I got a job with a small engineering company
    in a little village in the New Forest called Burley. Whilst setting up a Herbert 2D capstan lathe with a bar feed I had the misfortune to not think and having set all the parameters up
    I opened the collet chuck and the piece of scrap bar I had used to set the machine up came through and stopped on the tail; stock. NOT thinking I knocked the piece of scrap bar out
    of the way with my right hand only the have the next length of bar, Hex bar by the way, to come through, still spinning, and my hand was in the way. Luckily, the tail stop was of a
    small diameter and the hex bar pushed my hand into the tail stop which went between my fingers. The hex bar still had a fairly large burr which cut into my hand and too far away
    from the head stock to hit the emergency stop button. Fortunately the forman was walking past and he hit the stop button but my hand was still trapped between the bar and the tail stock.
    We had just re filled the machine with new sudds and it quickly turned pink. The hospital at Lymington did a great job of sewing my hand back up and now at 70 years old I still have full use of my right hand.
    There is no such thing as an accident, only an incident. There is always a cause and with machines verses the human body the machine always wins. Please be careful out there and
    keep making the scale models. Soon be time for the Model Engineering show at Ally Pally. Have a great Christmas and a happy New Year.
     
  7. Dec 23, 2018 #27

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,185
    Likes Received:
    488
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Haggis Breeder
    Location:
    Twixt Tyne and Tees
    Jennifer
    You really need a Guardian Angel- or like me -three!
    On my honeymoon, I changed the flight details for some reason and the previous booking -- flipped on its back on landing and burst into flames. Everyone was burnt in their seat belts.

    Then rounding a hairpin bend in the French Alps in a December lunchtime, hit black ice and we - did an Italian Job with 5 somersaults into a frozen river . I broke a finger!

    The I was boatbuilding alone in a November and power planing a part on a Myford planer and got my left hand in the works. I was alone, wrote a message in blood to my wife, wrapped my hand in a white dress shirt. and drove to A&E, changing gear with two fingers and ended up having more skin planed off by one of the protégées of Archie McIndo who was going next day to East Grinstead as consultant. East Grinstead was the home of the guinea pigs who had been damaged in the RAF in the war and got plastic surgery.

    I'm now a VERY careful and caring person who thinks that I may have pushed my Guardian Angels to the limit of their patience. I recall that saying about eventually one's luck runs out.

    So a Safe New Year to you all.

    Norm
     
  8. Dec 23, 2018 #28

    Dubi

    Dubi

    Dubi

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Designer of Wet Submersibles
    Location:
    Indonesia
    To all my fellow Posters I wish them a very Happy Christmas and a Prosperous New Year to which I add, may it be accident free.
     
    goldstar31 likes this.
  9. Dec 24, 2018 #29

    larryg

    larryg

    larryg

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2015
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired Maintenance tech now Farmer
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Glad to hear your alright. One of the things that I try to do is make sure that my wife knows that I am in the shop and to check on me once in a while. Sometimes I'm working on some big stuff and could hurt myself. So it would be nice for her to check in every hour or so to make sure I'm all right. If no one is around then I take extra care to not take risks or do something that could go wrong and get me.

    lg
    no neat sig line
     
  10. Feb 17, 2019 #30

    enginemanpk

    enginemanpk

    enginemanpk

    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Production Assembly
    Location:
    Darlington, Co.Durham, England
    When I was a training on the lathe one big no no was leaving a chuck key in a stationary chuck while been set in high revs. Turning lathe on launched the chuck key like a missile and ended up embedded in the block wall at back of the class.
     
  11. Feb 17, 2019 #31

    Dubi

    Dubi

    Dubi

    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2018
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    5
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Designer of Wet Submersibles
    Location:
    Indonesia
    In my shop if you do that it is instant dismissal and everybody knows that.
     
  12. Feb 18, 2019 #32

    Pufango

    Pufango

    Pufango

    Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    4
    Hello ,I was just slightly reaming a hole in a piece of 3 mm sheet steel.Holding it in my hand .Using a cordless drill to do the job .Due to lazyness I didn’t bother to clamp it down after all I was only removing a couple of thou. Any way soon as the drill entered the previous drilled hole it of course grabs, spun the metal and bang smacked me in the head.It hurt do we ever learn?
    Best regards Tony Wright pufango!
     
  13. Feb 18, 2019 #33

    Hopper

    Hopper

    Hopper

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2013
    Messages:
    646
    Likes Received:
    210
    Yes I think the dangers of drilling are underestimated. Lathes look bigger and scarier but I read somewhere that the highest incidence of workshop injuries involve drills and drill presses. I was caught myself a few years back drilling about a 2 or 3mm hole in a piece of brass held in a small Record drill vice. Vice was not bolted down but I had a bolt sticking up through the drill press table with the edge of the vice against it to stop rotation if the drill grabbed.

    Of course being brass the drill grabbed, but pulled the job and vice up the flutes, above the bolt in the table, spun the vice around a couple of turns until the drill bit bent and released the whole lot to fly across the workshop and out the open roller door whence it landed a good 15 feet away. Luckily no vintage motorcycle petrol tanks or human body parts were in the line of fire.

    Never have I drilled a hole in anything that is not bolted or clamped down since! Even if it is just one bolt through the table and vice done up finger tight to allow enough movement to align drill and punch mark etc - which is exactly how I was taught to do it many years ago but we all reckon we know better as we get older don't we!
     
  14. Feb 18, 2019 #34

    mfrick

    mfrick

    mfrick

    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2015
    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    7
    I have seen way to many hands and fingers destroyed or mangled due to the operator wearing gloves, they get caught on a burr or wrapped up on rotating part and pull the hand in and sometime it even gets the arm. So moto and rule in my shop NO GLOVES period. Also long sleeve shirts that are hanging lose are another source of accidents. I have a brother who had his hand pulled into machine due to lose sleeve the DR. did reattach two fingers that had been ripped from the hand with only the skin on back of hand holding them on. So keep the lose clothing away of machines period.
    MF
     
  15. Feb 18, 2019 #35

    Jennifer Edwards

    Jennifer Edwards

    Jennifer Edwards

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Retired E-Commerce Sytems Architect
    Location:
    Bridlington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK
    I can honestly say that, during the ten or so years I worked as a machinist, is one thing I have not done...yet.

    Of course the first thing I did when I got my SC2 lathe home was remove the safety device that prevents you from doing just that as it severely limits the diameter of the piece you can work.
     
  16. Feb 18, 2019 #36

    mcostello

    mcostello

    mcostello

    Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2011
    Messages:
    325
    Likes Received:
    34
    Worked with a Guy that worked in a shop that had a medium big lathe something like 16" x 60". Someone left it idiling while on lunch break. It was known to have a sticky clutch. Towards the end of break the clutch decided to engage and started to turn a big shaft, it eventually loosened the tail stock enough to push it back and beat on the lathe. It started walking across the shop till it yanked the electric out of the box. No body hurt, nobody fired. Evidentially everything was good.
     
  17. Feb 18, 2019 #37

    Jennifer Edwards

    Jennifer Edwards

    Jennifer Edwards

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    52
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Retired E-Commerce Sytems Architect
    Location:
    Bridlington, East Riding of Yorkshire, UK
    I’m not sure if this qualifies as a blunder but it was a scary moment:

    I was working at Otis Elevator in Harrison New Jersey. That day I was running s very large vertical mill. I was using a huge 36 inch fly cutter with 72 inserts around the perimeter that was so heavy that it needed an overhead crane to lift into place.

    The job was surfacing “fish plates” those flat plates about a foot long and 3/4 inch thick with eight holes used to fasten girders together.

    The magnetic table I was using held a dozen of them. I would take .250” off in one pass.

    A guy driving a forklift smashed into the power box supplying the table which instantly let loose the ten pound a piece steel plates which proceeded to fly around the shop with quite some velocity.

    I have no idea why myself or anyone else in the area was not killed or maimed. Somehow not one of them hit anyone or caused any serious damage.

    I have to tell you I came close to needing a change of panties when it happened. My hands shook for ten minutes or more and my knees buckled. I had to sit down for half an hour before I could go back to work.
     
  18. Feb 19, 2019 #38

    ALEX1952

    ALEX1952

    ALEX1952

    Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    6
    In 1968 I started my engineering apprenticeship with the Lucas group (UK) the first day was induction the second a trip to the safety exhibition in London which is permanent and run by ROSPA the exhibits were actual reconstructions of accidents with photos taken at the time including cine footage. Cinema presentations were also made to drive the message home. Fainting and being ill were not uncommon, but it worked 50 yrs as an engineer in various guises with no serious accidents (fingers crossed) but many close calls due to a human being in the mix for there is always human error at the root maybe not you but possibly the maintenance guy the designer or the bean counter, please do not be afraid to not use the machine, if in doubt get somebody else's opinion as they may have missed the error ultimately its your well being and you decision. Sorry about preaching!
     
  19. Feb 19, 2019 #39

    marvin hedberg

    marvin hedberg

    marvin hedberg

    Member HMEM Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2018
    Messages:
    15
    Likes Received:
    7
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    minnesota
    from 1954 South Bend manual 1954southbend.jpg
     
  20. Feb 19, 2019 #40

    davidyat

    davidyat

    davidyat

    Well-Known Member HMEM Lifetime Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2012
    Messages:
    155
    Likes Received:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired/Self Taught Machinist
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Alex,

    I like to read these kinds of posts. There's nothing like re-reading safety posts and boo-boo posts to make sure it doesn't happen to me. I don't know about anyone else, but my mind will wander when model machining a lot and get tired. The first small minor mistake, I shut everything down and take a break.

    Grasshopper
     

Share This Page