Beginner's questions about machining and IC engines

[fire_shall_fear]

Is there a ready to build IC V8 kit that doesn't require any advanced tools available for purchase anywhere? I don't have a mill or lathe yet but really want to get into building.

If I were to begin building an IC V8 engine from scratch, how does one figure out the camshaft lobe measurements like lift, duration ect...?

Im very interested in model vehicle engines since that's what I have the most experience in. I was a tool and die apprentice for a while before being laid off due to the economy. I moved on to better things but still have an interest in machining. I no longer have any ties to the shop and therefore no mentor to learn anymore. I became proficient at making trim tools while I was an apprentice, reading blueprints and finishing a project, mainly on the mill, I had very little experience on the wire burn or lathe or CNC machines. I never drew prints either. So in all honesty, since most of you are machinists, is it possible for me, with my limited knowledge, to teach myself the rest and successfully build an IC model engine?

 

[gbritnell]

The simple answer is, no. This hobby involves waaaayy too much learning and experience to just dive in. There are no shortcuts or simple ways to get to what you want. I'm not trying to be a wise --- about this but if you just see what the fellows on this board do and talk about you will realize the scope of this hobby.
gbritnell

 

[Tin Falcon]

What you can or can not do is up to you. While some of us here are professionally trained many are totally self taught.
Unless you are very experience a V-8 is not a first build engine project. My suggestion is build a few simple air steam engines. then move on to a single cylinder IC then move on to a V-8 . There have been flame lickers and low delta T- sterling done as first builds. But a v-8 is a long term commitment.
folks here have built them.
Tin
PS while Georges answer may seem blunt he is one of the most qualified here to answer the question . He is one of the few to build a V-8 . While he knows first hand it can be done he also knows the commitment it takes to complete the task.

 

[fire_shall_fear]

I hope I didn't mislead anyone to believing I was attempting my first build as a V8. I want to start small, and move my way up to bigger projects. I plan on sticking with this hobby, I want to learn more and hope to find someone who may be willing to teach me some more when it comes to machining.

Also, I haven't been able to find a kit that has all the required parts to build an model vehicle engine. Does anyone know of one? I would be surprised if no one has capitalized on that, many of my car buddies have talked about how great it would be to build a model V8 and customize it to match their project cars.

 

[stevehuckss396]

Is there a ready to build IC V8 kit that doesn't require any advanced tools available for purchase anywhere? I don't have a mill or lathe yet but really want to get into building.

I never drew prints either. So in all honesty, since most of you are machinists, is it possible for me, with my limited knowledge, to teach myself the rest and successfully build an IC model engine?

Sorry but there is no "machined kit". You can get a ready to run but they are almost $6,000.

I am not a machinest and 5 years ago I didn't even own a lathe or mill. I started out making parts for engines. I finished a few air powered engines and with practice, I have my first I.C. engine running about a year or so ago. I am about 1/2 way thru with my second I.C. engine now so it is possible to figure it out. I think the best way would be to work your way up from simple air engines and aquire the skills as you go. You can get there.

 

[stevehuckss396]

many of my car buddies have talked about how great it would be to build a model V8 and customize it to match their project cars.

How many of your buddys would be willing to pay 4-6 grand for all the parts required to build one of these. I already know the answer.

I built a V4 for my first IC and materials were somewhere between $750-$1000 for all the steel, aluminum, brass and bronze, bearings, screws, gears, springs . . . .. . . .. . . .. .

 

[fire_shall_fear]

I know for a fact there isn't one of my buddies that could afford to spent anything near that much at one time, we are firemen/medics after all! Some of us dont have that much in our cars! I appreciate the help, I will definatly start out at square one and build some air powered models. Any ideas on a good starter project or two?

 

[stevehuckss396]

I know for a fact there isn't one of my buddies that could afford to spent anything near that much at one time, we are firemen/medics after all! Some of us dont have that much in our cars! I appreciate the help, I will definatly start out at square one and build some air powered models. Any ideas on a good starter project or two?

There are free plans available in alot of places on the net. My metal club has a site with free plans. Not much there yet but it has only been up for a few weeks. Give it a look.

http://www.metrodetroitmetalworkers.com/

 

[steamer]

Hi Fire,

A model oscillator would be a great start. I kinda feel you getting dumped on a bit on this thread, but I don't think it was meant that way. Do a lot of reading. Get yourself some good plans, even of engines you don't want to build! You'll learn lots about how things go together and are made by doing that.

A member of this board is a good start...

Joining a model engineering group would also be a smart place to spend some time.

Lindsay Publications has a great number of reasonably priced books on machining that are great primer.

Ask a lot of questions

Perserver

Get yourself a lathe and start learning....making little ones out of big ones.

As George pointed out. Its a journey. And it's a lot of effort, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise as their blowing smoke up your (&#(*7 if they do.

And as Steve pointed out...it ain't cheap neither!......but I get in less trouble than if I got into other vices. ;D

Dave

 

[stevehuckss396]

And as Steve pointed out...it ain't cheap neither!......but I get in less trouble than if I got into other vices. ;D

It's all in the perspective. That money was spent over a 15 month period. That's over a years worth of hobby cash. When I had my 69 Chevelle I could spend that in a month. So if you think about it, it is actually cheap.

I personally am not trying to "dump on you". Just trying to steer you down the right path. If you wake up tomorrow and go get a lathe and mill, and want to start a V8, I will do all i can to help. It will be a fun 2 years.

 

[Foozer]

Ill tell you, the hobby is fun, what some of the people do here is just talented. They make it look so easy, till its in your own hands. Its anything but simple. It is a learning curve, and as most will say, start out with a little wobbler. material cost are kept down while giving the practice needed to actually cut the metal to plan.

Spent a lot of years in the +/- 0.030 world, this hobby is a different beast altogether. Trying to keep to the 0.001 range will cost me what hair I have left. Think there is a good starter design in the downloads here.

Once you start cutting metal, youll be hooked

Robert

 

[fire_shall_fear]

Thanks everyone for the advice, I have been doing lots of research for weeks now. Now it looks as though my research is going to be geared more towards a mini-lathe of some sort. I'm kind of apprehensive of lathe work as I have very little experience. I loved mill work and feel pretty confidant in my skills there. Obviously, anything cylindrical requires a lathe and I will have to become quite proficient as I understand how clearances are of the utmost importance. I will be honest, I did feel quite dumped on at the beginning of the thread, but my confidence is back now.
Stevehucksss396, thank you for the guidance, I don't plan on attempting a V8 project just yet, I found through my research that it would be overwhelming but it is always great to hear first hand experiences from those who have done it and, in your case, succeeded.
Steamer, you too have been a great help. I have started looking for plans for a simple oscillator type build, but will have to back track a bit to figure out exactly how they work. No sense in attempting to build on if I have no idea how it works right? Haha. I have also pulled out my old machining books from my apprenticeship and am looking into lathe operations and reviewing milling. I totally understand this is not an overnight process or build, if I wanted something simple or quick, I would've bought the same Revell model every 13 year old has and be mediocre, but that is not the plan, I want to eventually be able to build something that no one else ever has, something with my own twist.

On another note, does anyone know of a model engineering group based out of the St. Louis area?

 

[Metal Butcher]

Is there a ready to build IC V8 kit that doesn't require any advanced tools available for purchase anywhere? I don't have a mill or lathe yet but really want to get into building.

If I were to begin building an IC V8 engine from scratch, how does one figure out the camshaft lobe measurements like lift, duration ect...?

Im very interested in model vehicle engines since that's what I have the most experience in. I was a tool and die apprentice for a while before being laid off due to the economy. I moved on to better things but still have an interest in machining. I no longer have any ties to the shop and therefore no mentor to learn anymore. I became proficient at making trim tools while I was an apprentice, reading blueprints and finishing a project, mainly on the mill, I had very little experience on the wire burn or lathe or CNC machines. I never drew prints either. So in all honesty, since most of you are machinists, is it possible for me, with my limited knowledge, to teach myself the rest and successfully build an IC model engine?

Building a V-8 from scratch would require engineering knowledge that most model engine builders don't have. The good news is there are plenty of less complex I.C. plans available that can be used by a person with modest machining abilities. Also, I believe that Coles Models, and maybe another have a ready to machine casting set with blue prints. You said that you were machining parts on a mill using blueprints. That's more experience than some hobby machinists start out with. I'm attempting to teach myself to build engines. I say 'build engines' because my goal was never to become a true 'Machinist", or 'Model Engineer'. My goal is just to be able to have fun and stay busy machining parts and building nice engines I can be proud of. I doubt anyone could become a true machinist without being properly trained during a long apprenticeship.

I can build some pretty decent simple projects after about 4 years of practice. I built simple one, two, three, and one four cylinder steam/air engines. Some of my first attempts were nothing less than pathetic, but I didn't give up. This year I'm attempting my first I.C. engines. They are proving to be difficult for me, and they require quite a bit of new knowledge and ability that I haven't acquired yet.

If you have a strong desire, the patience, and the ability to learn, then I think its possible. Me saying so won't make it happen though, its in your hands alone.

-MB

 

[chrischannon01]

Building a V-8 from scratch would require engineering knowledge that most model engine builders don't have. The good news is there are plenty of less complex I.C. plans available that can be used by a person with modest machining abilities. Also, I believe that Coles Models, and maybe another have a ready to machine casting set with blue prints. You said that you were machining parts on a mill using blueprints. That's more experience than some hobby machinists start out with. I'm attempting to teach myself to build engines. I say 'build engines' because my goal was never to become a true 'Machinist", or 'Model Engineer'. My goal is just to be able to have fun and stay busy machining parts and building nice engines I can be proud of. I doubt anyone could become a true machinist without being properly trained during a long apprenticeship.

I can build some pretty decent simple projects after about 4 years of practice. I built simple one, two, three, and one four cylinder steam/air engines. Some of my first attempts were nothing less than pathetic, but I didn't give up. This year I'm attempting my first I.C. engines. They are proving to be difficult for me, and they require quite a bit of new knowledge and ability that I haven't acquired yet.

If you have a strong desire, the patience, and the ability to learn, then I think its possible. Me saying so won't make it happen though, its in your hands alone.

-MB

Good afternoon, Hemmingway Kits do a model V8 kit for machining, complete with all stock to build the engine , also the plans are available to purchase separately
It is a very well thought out engine, i am building one at the moment ( completion in about 2 years!!!)
Have a great day
Regards
Chris.

 

[chrischannon01]

Good afternoon, Hemmingway Kits do a model V8 kit for machining, complete with all stock to build the engine , also the plans are available to purchase separately
It is a very well thought out engine, i am building one at the moment ( completion in about 2 years!!!)
Have a great day
Regards
Chris

 

[xpylonracer]

Plenty of info on the Eric Whittle V8 engine at this group.
https://groups.io/g/WittleV8

 

[Peter Twissell]

I've just built the Whittle V8 from Hemingway.

I should note that the kit doesn't quite contain all the materials needed, nor does it include screws or nuts, most of which are non-standard and will need to be made from scratch or modified from available parts.

It is most definitely not a beginners engine.

There are a great many very small, fiddly parts requiring a lot of patience, which may lead to frustration and disappointment.

I would definitely suggest that a first engine should be a single cylinder, glowplug ignition type of about 5 to 10cc.
This type is reasonably forgiving of beginners tolerance and finishes and is more likely to produce a running engine.

 

[xpylonracer]

Peter is absolutely correct in suggesting a single cylinder glo-plug or diesel engine as a first project, much more chance of having a runner at the end of the process.

 

[RonGinger]

There are several V8 engines in both kit and ready to run for under $2,000 at Stirlingkit.com I have purchased a simple hit and miss and a 2 cylinder kit from them and they are excellent. Beautifully finished and run well, at least the hit and miss does, I have not assembled the 2 cylinder yet.

 

[Longboy]

You are a great candidate for the WEBSTER model engine when you get your machine tools.