Setting up Shop Questions - from an NZ learner

Discussion in 'The Shop' started by joco-nz, Aug 1, 2016.

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  1. Jan 16, 2018 #601

    dkwflight

    dkwflight

    dkwflight

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    Hi
    Good luck setting up shop.
    My personal experience with the cheap chinese lathes does not compare to what others have gone through.
    Some have bought and had no trouble.
    Mine on the other hand I have come to regard as a "Kit" lathe. Much to try to improve or correct. My 7 x 12 mini is slowly coming around to be a usable lathe. There is a lot of information out there. You tube you cannot always take as gospel. Some on the forums are the same among the truly knowledgeable.

    If you buy used you may be buying others worn out or broken stuff. I would try to take a long a knowledgeable person to inspect with you so you will know what the true condition is. Older machines may not have any repair parts available

    Some of my experience on you tube
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8ledHmxu9hjDEgUq3cl4mw
     
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  2. Feb 1, 2018 #602

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    Taking the tank further with lid and the start of the piping, just to show things are still slowing moving forward while being interupted by work committments.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. Mar 16, 2018 #603

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    In a bid to try and sort some space I thought I would get the computer up on the wall. This might be of use to someone out there. :)


    The mess to be dealt with ...
    [​IMG]

    Slowly winning on that front and making room for next steps.
    [​IMG]

    Stage 1: Cut out some 6mm steel flat and shaped to this triangle. Front plate is clearance hole drilled 6.5mm and the back plate is tapped M6. With three M6 cap screws in place this is should be able to clamp on like a "really strong clampy thing" (alternative phrases failed the census checks)
    [​IMG]

    Hand holding the vertical bracket before welding.
    [​IMG]

    The result all welded up and on the wall. Clamped good and solid as well. The bracket is also painted with rust preventing black paint.
    [​IMG]

    Ta da! Success. With some bench space reclaimed!
    [​IMG]
     
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  4. Jun 17, 2018 #604

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    A little update on some changes to the mill stand. Really the next stage where I'm doing something more sensible with the space available. And yes the top of the table is a mess. I'm still tidying things up post working with the brown woddy stuff.

    Pre modifications. Big rectangular hole.
    [​IMG]


    Everthing installed and a coiuple of shots showing the new look.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Jun 17, 2018 #605

    natalefr

    natalefr

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    IMHO It is not a good idea to install a milling machine on a trolley with wheels, a milling machine NEEDS a stable support as rigid as possible
     
  6. Jun 17, 2018 #606

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    I agree. Hence why it’s not resting on wheels. Refer earlier posts on the mill table build: https://www.homemodelenginemachinis...op-questions-from-an-nz-learner.25880/page-24

    Hopefully the bolt feet that extend and lift the wheels off the floor as well as allowing leveling are visible.
     
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  7. Feb 11, 2019 #607

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    Been working on a no-fog cooler. Its based off a number of plans generally available and with reference to the https://patents.google.com/patent/US5390854 for some more clarity on how it is supposed to work, pressures and some key measurements.

    Still testing and the like but it seems to be working without atomising from what I can tell. Like I said, more testing to do.



    Cheers,
    James.
     
  8. Feb 11, 2019 #608

    DJP

    DJP

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    I can see the application if cooling and lubricating a cutter bit is important due to high loading but in my case I'm running at hobby speeds. There is a simple spray gun used in industry that runs on compressed air passing over a venturi nozzle that sucks fluid from a glass jar. It's used to apply a thin layer of adhesive or paint. I have used it for touch up in automotive restoration. The spray pattern is round so not ideal but for small areas it works fine. Instead of building a spray gun why not just use one of these inexpensive industrial sprayers. I'll bet that it does 80% of the job.

    Just a thought for your consideration but given that you have a prototype running don't stop now.
     
  9. Feb 11, 2019 #609

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    One of the challenges when using spray based cooling is avoiding a “fog” situation. You really don’t want to be breathing atomised air born coolant. The intention of this style of cooler is to blow the chips away, deliver some coolant and lubricant to the cutting tool so as to reduce cutting edge wear and improve surface finish while NOT generating a fog of coolant in the workshop. There are commercial versions but where is the fun in that. :)

    Also I will ultimately have a CNCd BF20 mill where such a coolant system will be be quite useful.

    Agree that in a hobby situation you can get by without it. Maybe using a brush, squirt bottle, hand air gun or whatever works for the individual. But heck I’m having fun tinkering. Making tools for tools is just enjoyable.

    Cheers,
    J.
     
  10. Feb 12, 2019 #610

    DJP

    DJP

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    I saw that in your earlier posts when a welder was the tool that you used to make more tools. Enjoy the journey.

    You are right that I simply brush on cutting oil where I need it and I use it sparingly to avoid the fumes (smoke) coming from a hot carbide cutter. I exhaust the fumes in my shop with a big blower mounted in the ceiling. A CNC machine will be enclosed but if you are breathing vaporized fumes additional precaution would be wise. I have painted a few restored vehicles and even with a good mask there is leakage. Perhaps just blowing cool air on a hot tool is all that you need.

    At SKF where I worked many decades ago they had rivers of coolant flowing under the machines. Flooding the cutting or grinding operation was the technique at that time with the only downside being an annual shutdown to clean out sediment in the rivers. Although oil splattered shirts were common.

    Take care and have fun.
     
  11. Feb 12, 2019 #611

    rodw

    rodw

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    Geez, I've just spent $3k taking water out of my air supply (for my plasma cutter) and here you are putting the water back in!! :(:(:eek::(:(

    I've not tried it, but I wonder if the air lubricator I've got here would be useful in this situation? Designed to oil air going to tools (Like my air engraver if ever I get around to mounting it to my plasma cutter.)

    Anyway, I really think flood coolant might be better for the application becasue it takes away so much heat! Parting and drilling are wonderful with flood coolant and on the lathe, I get mirror finishes.

    PS. you've reminded me I should update my plasma build thread here...
     
  12. Feb 12, 2019 #612

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    DJP - cheers. Having fun and that’s what it’s all about. Good points re the CNC machine and something I’ll watch for. I’ve also been looking at some kind of big fan to move air around. But then just opening the garage door might be enough. Suitably low tech. :)

    Rod - on my “big” mill I have built in flood coolant as an option. Of course you then have a big messy clean up. But I do have the option if hogging some big stuff.
    Still need to get the flood system on the lathe. The tank is all built and I have the pump system proven on the bandsaw.

    So many projects. ;-)

    Cheers,
    J.
     
  13. Feb 12, 2019 #613

    Shopgeezer

    Shopgeezer

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    I bought two of these from Ebay for $6.99 US each and free shipping (how do they ship free from China?). Took two months to arrive but they made it. Haven’t hooked them up yet. The point about atomisation and breathing coolant in a home shop is of concern. I don’t know what these do, just dribble coolant or actually spray.

    So that begs the question about different kinds of coolant. I have a jug of some sort of brandX from the sale bin. Given that the average home machinist will be wearing, breathing and ingesting coolant what are some environmental and health conscious options?
     

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  14. Feb 12, 2019 #614

    DJP

    DJP

    DJP

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    To exhaust my garage/shop I mounted a furnace blower at the ceiling and directed the air flow into the attic of the garage. It's not connected to the house and the fumes exit through gable vents. It's very effective when welding so it might help extract coolant vapour during a machining operation.

    In my case I'll give up a mirror finish for less contamination.
     
  15. Feb 16, 2019 #615

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    I have been building a QCTP holder for a DI today using the Dah Lih mill and the new no-fog cooler. Conclusion is its working as designed. Getting good cooling effects with low coolant use. It worked very well with the HSS 25mm roughing endmill, the 10mm finishing end mill and the 60 deg dovetail cutter. At the end of cutting the steel block was quite cold to the touch. No warming at all, if anything is was noticeably colder than when I first placed it in the vice.

    So here are the plans I have made up to reflect what was built. Some observations to help ...
    - The M5 holes are for the quick push fit air fittings I got off Aliexpress. These could obviously be changed for whatever suitable air fitting and hole/thread size you had or wanted to use.

    - The materials I used were:
    Mix block = 6061 aluminium. This could just as easily be brass if you wanted to.
    Tube, nozzle and M6 adaptor = brass

    - The brass parts were secured to the tube using loctite or equivalent adhesive.
    - The brass M6 adaptor was sealed into the mixer block using plumbers thread tape.

    Cheers,
    James.
     

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  16. Feb 16, 2019 #616

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    For operating pressures after some tinkering I am using 20psi on both the fluid tank and the air feed.

    I'm currently using normal old soluble oil in a 1:35 mix per its instructions. In time I will try and source some proper MQL coolant for this device. I have found a local supplier who seem to stock a vegetable oil based coolant design for MQL use in mist coolers. its not very cheap by 5 litre should last a pretty long time.

    Cheers,
    J.
     
  17. Feb 18, 2019 #617

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    Here is a picture of the overall arrangement at the business end. I opted for an approach that had the control valves away from the head. Mainly because I did not want to be playing with knobs on the end of something wobbly. So I have them back up the piping where they can be affixed to something more solid. In this example I have them cable tied around the DRO arm. I think this location will change when I get some segmented pipe to act as the flexiable arm. Anyway, thought might be of interest.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Feb 18, 2019 #618

    DJP

    DJP

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    I don't see the oil reservoir or compressor in the picture so I assume that you have shop air and if consumption of oil is low then any small sealed bottle with a tube to the bottom and air input should work. The real test will be the colour of chips. When I see blue steel chips I know that it is time for some cooling. If your misting cooler can change the colour back to plain metal then it is a winner.

    Personally, I am avoiding added complexity to my machines. I prefer them simple and as originally designed. Besides, my workload on the machines is very light compared to a production shop. My grandchildren are learning to mill and turn so simple is good for them too. Eventually our son will take my entire shop to his property and I'll leave it to him to add modifications. Keeping the shop machines simple to use has a next generation acceptance benefit.

    The blue tubing in your design makes a nice colour contrast for a separate system. I wonder why we paint our machines all in grey like a battleship?
     
  19. Feb 20, 2019 #619

    joco-nz

    joco-nz

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    Here is the "tank" end of the setup. I opted to have pressure control on both the feed into the tank and the air line to the cooler head. Just in case with different fluids I will get a better result with different pressures. It's possibly overkill but at least I can tweak it if I need to.

    [​IMG]
     
  20. Feb 20, 2019 #620

    DJP

    DJP

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    Thanks
     

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