Recommend a First Engine?

[Budgie]

Hello Everyone!

A bit of personal introduction: I'm 19 and working full time for an engineering firm. The rest of my time is spent in front of my lathe or mill/drill, which I bought for myself about 8 months ago. I've been tinkering around for long enough now to get through the absolute basics of machining (at least I think so...) and I'm feeling that its time to tackle a serious project; namely, a model engine.

I'm quite fascinated with small gasoline engines. I get the impression that they may be a bit challenging for a first project, but I'm not sure I'd manage to stay motivated if working on a steam, air, sterling, or other engine. I was thinking of starting out with a small V-Twin, V-4, or something along those lines. This might be too ambitious for someone with no experience, but I tend to be a perfectionist and I'm very devoted to my hobby.

I've done a small amount of searching for plans, but haven't been successful. I'd greatly appreciate any feedback you may have or engine plans you can recommend. Am I crazy to be thinking about starting with something like this? Let me know what you think!

Thank you for the warm welcome, and thanks in advance for any thoughts you may share!
Budgie.

 

[DickDastardly40]

Budgie,

Welcome to the site.

I regret I can offer no pointers to what sort of engine you should start with however, I advise you to pick something straightforward which will build your skills, be relatively quick and give you something tangible to spur you onwards.

This is in direct contravention of my method which was to pick the most complicated I could find (triple expansion) and then spend over 10 years getting not even half way and having lots of parts but no engine.

Good luck with whatever project you decide.

Al

 

[NickG]

I always say this for beginners. Oscillating engine is the way forward. Staying motivated doesn't come into it, it will take a week to make, it will probably work and that will spur you on to something more complex. Build it up slowly, I designed and made several oscillators before doing a stirling engine, if I hadn't the stirling wouldn't have worked I'm sure of that! I still haven't done an i.c. engine, I am going to try a flame gulper before that.

Nick

 

[Tin Falcon]

Welcome.
I second the motion on starting with something simple like a simple oscillator or a McCabe Runner
For IC maybe a Hamilton (Dick) Upshire single cylinder design
Tin

 

[baldrocker]

That oscillator from Little Machine Shop as recommended by Tin Falcon was my first and
the sense of achievement when it ran was fantastic and the plans are free
Best of luck
BR

 

[90LX_Notch]

As a fellow newbie I concur with the others, start with an oscillator. You'd be surprised at how challenging it really is to make parts to spec. With this hobby, unless you have been a machinist, I really believe that you have to crawl before you can walk and you have to walk before you can run.

I made the two engines below and learned a lot from building them.

NickGs Oscillator-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=3810.msg38805#msg38805

Elmers Tiny-
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item53

 

[putputman]

Budgie, if you still insist on building a more complicated engine, you might consider Jerry Howell's "V-Twin". http://www.jerry-howell.com/

It is made from billet so there are no castings to destroy. If you mess up a part you just make another. You can start by making some of the simple parts first and work your way into more complicated ones.

Jerry's plans are excellent. They are very complete and accurate.
He also has available, for a reasonable price, some of the more difficult parts to find, such as screws, bearings, o-ring seals, etc.

LOL

 

[shred]

If you've not made any engines before, I'd start by looking for plans that have some 'words to go with the music' as they used to say-- descriptions of what/when and how to make tricky parts. Very handy if you've not done this kind of thing before.

A number of the free plans have them-- Dave Goodfellows' Brassy Babe was the one I started on. If you want to try something more complex, John Bogstandard's 'Paddleducks' engine (posted here somewhere) is a vertical twin marine-style steam engine with a large 'book' (collection of web site postings) on building it aimed at novice builders and using scrap materials. Several of Elmers Engines are also good entry-level projects. The 'Webster' is a fairly simple IC engine (though much more complex than a basic steamer) if you want to go that way.

There's a guy in our club making the V-Twin and he's having a time of it even using CNC. I would definitely not suggest that for an absolute novice (Jerry says so too "This is NOT a beginners project, but anyone who is particular about his work, has built a few other successful internal combustion engines and has a 7 inch or larger lathe and a milling machine with a 6 inch rotary table should not have any problems building this engine.")

 

[kvom]

If you want something more complex than an osciallator you might try the double size beam engine that Brian drew the plans for and that I am completing. You can also follow our respective build threads here and probably avoid some of the gaffes that we collectively made.

 

[Jasonb]

As the others have said a small ossilator will get you used to fitting and finishing parts, this will be a short project and you can then move onto something a bit more involved.

For a V-twin the Hoglet design that was in Model Engine Builder mag is not too complicated, there are a couple being made by members of this forum (look under work in progress) I've just made a start on one between working on my traction engine. It's all from barstock and you can see it all working rather than a high reving aero design, this is a clip of one running

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iaDvk...31.msg37039;topicseen&feature=player_embedded

Jason

 

[Mainer]

Even the simplest steam engine model will be plenty difficult as a first engine. I'd recommend something made from barstock so you don't have to worry about messing up castings.

If you absolutely MUST do an IC engine, make it a single-cylinder. There is no point in having to worry about getting more than two valves and a single piston to seal well enough to give compression. Doing that is HARD. Not to mention dealing with a more complex camshaft and crankshaft.

 

[rake60]

If you're looking for something a little more complex than an oscillator
you might consider Dave Goodfellow's Siamese Twins Engine.

Rick

 

[Kermit]

I'm taking the advice of the old hands here and starting with an osc cyl vertical motor. I uploaded the plans as a pdf. The plans are actually the entire Chapter 2 of the book.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl


It is free to download at books.google.com though just search for "model engine making" and select the result written by J. Pocock.

Written in 1888 mostly for people working with castings it includes several of the authors own designs. One vert Osc. One Horz Osc. One Vertical slide valve. One Horizontal slide valve. And finally there is a chapter on a small boiler for the models previously built.

 

[NickG]

Kermit,

Looks like a comprehensive set of instructions, but where are the working drawings? A beginner should have a full set of working drawings, instructions should accompany the drawings not the other way around! Do we know of any working examples of this engine? It looks quite nice and it gives some of the theory behind it, however, I don't think it's the ideal engine to start with. There are many better examples on this site and producing a running engine will achieve much the same effect on the builder no matter what it looks like so it'd be best to start with a tried and tested design.

Nick

 

[mklotz]

I have to agree with Nick. Don't saddle the novice with the task of developing his own drawings. He has enough to do to learn to build to a dimensioned plan.

 

[Kermit]

You know, I didn't even think of that aspect.

I've built lots of models of all makes and types but I've never had to make my own parts for them before, except single exceptions made "to fit".

Perhaps my choice for a first build isn't a good one for me either. But then it would make me learn layout and design that much quicker. Hmmm?

I eventually want to design my own engines completely "from scratch" as they say. Maybe this simple motor of minimal part count would be a good first one after all.


Damn but this coffee is good...(kermit puts the decision away for later wrestling)


Input?

 

[Jeff02]

My two cents worth.
STUART was where I got my start and this was my first.

 

[stevehuckss396]

Am I crazy to be thinking about starting with something like this? Let me know what you think!

Crazy, maybe just a little. I did the same thing only I started out with a straight 8 cylinder. I never finished it tho I do plan on completing it. Just bit off too much, too early. On the other hand, there are many people who have pulled off V8 engines as there first engine. The important thing is to work toward something you really want and the worst thing that can happen is you learn some stuff and enjoy yourself. Best case, you build an engine that runs.

 

[joeby]

I'll throw my $.02 in on this, if I may.

I think I would carefully consider the responses so far as to staying with a simple single cylinder design. I wish I would have had the opportunity to ask someone that had been into model engineering before I started on my first engine. I decided to build an inline four IC engine because I wasn't new to IC engines or machining, and I thought it would be well within my capabilities to get it done. Where I went wrong was in underestimating the amount of work, determination, and patience that it would require.

I was reading this thread earlier today, and while I was in the shop this evening, I thought to do a little digging. Sure enough, stuffed into a shoebox, I found the remains of my first engine, a Panther Pup.

I had a pretty good start at it, but too many other things cut into my shop time, money wasn't available, etc. I ended up just packing it in. Some time later I started another engine, this time a single, finished it and it actually would run. I have not really even thought about another multi-cylinder engine since.

I am still amazed at the work that the members on this site put out. I know the amount of time and effort that gets put into these engines, learned it the hard way.

Keep in mind that I am not trying to discourage starting a more complex engine project, just trying to point out that it takes a lot out of you to see it to the end.

Kevin

 

[Maryak]

Budgie,

My 2 Bob's worth. :

In your initial email you say you have 8 months experience with machining. In the scheme of things that's not a lot IMHO. Believe me when I say crawl, walk then run. My first model was a single cylinder horizontal steam mill engine. 2 Base plates, 2 cylinders, 2 conrods and 4 crankshafts later, (7 years later), it was finished and is a runner. At the time of starting, I considered myself to be a reasonable machinist. Despite that, I had no experience of working to such a small scale. As the scale goes down, the margin for error follows exponentially. If you can benefit from my mistake. I will be very happy.

My motto now is KISS, (Keep It Simple Stupid).

Hope this helps and I wish you every success in whatever you decide to build.

Best Regards
Bob