Edwards Radial 5 Build

[petertha]

Been watching the parts & assembly come together. Nice work. I don't want to impose on this nice build thread, so created a new post/question re Edwards lubrication system here. Maybe someone can help elaborate?

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f26/edwards-radial-5-lubrication-20687/#post217567

 

[xjs]

The crankshaft came out beautifully. Well, almost.




The rough-turning of the shaft from the sawn plate took a couple of hours, but with auto-fed twenty-thou cuts and a carbide toolbit it was pretty painless. Then, the last few thou with a HSS bit, down to the last couple of tenths, and the final finish (a la Brian) with emery cloth and a flat steel rule. Gorgeous, everything just the way it should be.

Threading the business end, where one day a 22x8 propeller will be proudly mounted...the first fifteen thou of thread depth on the lathe, finishing with a die...couldn't have gone better.

Then the final milling-to-spec of the rectangular end rotor, and the machining of the counterweight...all of this went as though blessed from on high. The counterweight nestled so nicely onto the rotor you'd have thought they were made for each other (which, of course....).


http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/mtitterton/media/Mic-ingfinish-milledrotor_zps1fc2cf32.jpg.html

Then, just one last thing before setting up to machine the crankpin bore in the rotor...drill and tap the holes to secure the counterweight.

Two beautiful tapping-sized holes, a half-inch deep to allow plenty of room for 3/8" of thread...

Then....

H O W L ! ! ! ! ! H O W L ! ! ! ! H O W L ! ! ! !

...the 6-32 tap snaps off like a carrot, at its full depth, and just refuses all encouragement to vacate the hole. An attempt to repeat the operation on he other end of the rotor crashes and burns (after two holes ARE successfully drilled and tapped) when it is discovered that the diameter of the hole for the crankpin is greater than the distance between the first pair of holes...and the remains of the tap. No drilling to be done there.

Oh, woe.

Well, at least I can salvage the counterweight. And maybe, in the fullness of time, I'll find something to do with my beautiful-but-useless crankshaft. Paperweight? Fancy tack-hammer?

So, I've ordered more steel (2" round this time, just to compare the two approaches) and another box of Kleenex. While I'm waiting for them to arrive I'm making some link rods. From nice, friendly aluminium.

Meanwhile, if anyone knows any magic spells I might use to make that broken tap vanish from that hole (Tappus Begonnus!!) I'm ready to boil up a newt or two. Just give me the recipe.

:wall:

 

[Brian-in-Oz]

Oh no! that is the worst thing that can happen when the :fan: at the end of the job not at the beginning. My heart bleeds for you Michael.
I am currently in a cold sweat working on a head - nearly finished one and hoping something similar doesn't happen to me. I decided to use a sacrificial head to test some of the procedures to see if they worked rather than risk stuffing up the actual job.
Progress has been painfully slow but so far so good with only the inlet and exhaust ports and top fins to do. Photo is of job so far with valve guides temporarily screwed in and a valve shoved in for effect.
There is a lot of steps in the heads and I have made a brief to see me through with the remaining four so hopefully things may be a bit quicker with them. I tend to check - double check and then contemplate with a senior moment before moving on - all very time consuming.
Good luck with the revisited crank.
Cheers Brian :toilet:

 

[xjs]

Lovely work Brian. So painstaking. If I'd known the value of taking "senior moment" pauses for reflection fifty years ago I probably would have gotten in a lot less trouble ever since. Those guides are looking particularly good...can't wait to see your "sacrificial" head with fins and ports and glo-plug hole. And, do I recall you saying you're going to fabricate the cutter for the valve seats?

Question: anyone know anything about anodizing on a small scale? I've been thinking I'd like to anodize my cylinder barrels before fitting them with liners.

 

[Brian-in-Oz]

Hi Michael and all - just a quick note to apologise for being AWOL from the forum (and the workshop ) for a few weeks. I have been away playing golf and attending to a bit of other stuff but am back on base and have been working on the heads all day. I can see they are going to take me weeks to complete but will keep the forum updated. Michael I guess you have been off to LA to Micks'
concert - how did it go. I can't help with the anodizing but a Google should bring up some information - I will be interested to see how you get on if you tackle this.

Cheers - Brian *discussion*

 

[canadianhorsepower]

Meanwhile, if anyone knows any magic spells I might use to make that broken tap vanish from that hole (Tappus Begonnus!!) I'm ready to boil up a newt or two. Just give me the recipe.

Sorry to hear this but you save your part. put your crank in hot water and put some ALUM on top of your tap
to form like "milky mud" keep it simmer , i use a coffe warmer, you'll have to add some water once a while
but it works. It's a long process giving you time to do other things in mean while

Question: anyone know anything about anodizing on a small scale? I've been thinking I'd like to anodize my cylinder barrels before fitting them with liners.

Model Engineers Workshop had very good article in the revue #194 "October 2012"

 

[steze48]

Hello all...I have put my engine on hold for now...
I feel it is nearly imposable to build this engine without a mill...
I am saving up for one...
Everyones work looks great!!!

 

[mu38&Bg#]

put your crank in hot water and put some ALUM on top of your tap to form like "milky mud" keep it simmer , i use a coffe warmer, you'll have to add some water once a while
but it works. It's a long process giving you time to do other things in mean while

This works when the part the tap is stuck in is not made of steel. A steel part will dissolve along with the steel tap.

 

[jwcnc1911]

XJS, if you haven't found anything about anodizing send me a pm.

 

[Brian-in-Oz]

Hello all...I have put my engine on hold for now...
I feel it is nearly imposable to build this engine without a mill...
I am saving up for one...
Everyones work looks great!!!

Hi Steve - sorry to hear you have had to put your engine on hold but under the circumstances I am sure you are doing the right thing. There is absolutely no way I could build this engine without a mill and my only advice is to keep saving until you can get a decent size one and make sure it is a sturdy piece of kit. You will still be appreciating the quality long after you have forgotten the purchase price.
Please stay in touch with the forum - by the time you get your mill we will all have had enough busts and hopefully some solutions that we can help you along with your Edwards Radial.

Cheers and take care - Brian Thm:

 

[xjs]

Hi Michael and all - just a quick note to apologise for being AWOL from the forum (and the workshop ) for a few weeks. I have been away playing golf and attending to a bit of other stuff but am back on base and have been working on the heads all day. I can see they are going to take me weeks to complete but will keep the forum updated. Michael I guess you have been off to LA to Micks'
concert - how did it go.
Cheers - Brian *discussion*

Good to know you're back, Brian, though I had no idea golf was one of your vices.

Those heads of yours looked fabulous last I saw. Looking forward to the next pics. I haven't yet re-attempted the crankshaft, though new material did recently arrive so it won't be very long now. I've been filling in the time with the Master Rod (done) and Link Rods (done), doing some long-overdue cleanup in the shop, and attempting the Pistons. I say "attempting" since my initial crop of five was reduced to two after a succession of three busted-off 0.043" drills in the holes where the oilways should be. The only thing that finally stopped the carnage was my running out of drillbits. That, and 1" dia. 2024 ... now there's more of both on the way. I really must be more careful, or at least change medications.

The concert was unbelievably fine, thanks for asking -- two and a half days of travel for a two and a half hour concert turned out to be a very good exchange indeed. Rock and roll worthy of the name. The last time I saw the Stones (in London, in the early sixties) they were the opening act for Ike and Tina Turner -- they've come a long way since then.

But then, so have we all.

 

[xjs]

Sorry to hear this but you save your part. put your crank in hot water and put some ALUM on top of your tap
to form like "milky mud" keep it simmer , i use a coffe warmer, you'll have to add some water once a while
but it works. It's a long process giving you time to do other things in mean while

Many thanks for the advice, but I must humbly ask...what is ALUM? A trade name, or chemical, or something else? I certainly love the idea no matter how long it might take...though I noticed that another correspondent has suggested that it might "melt" the surrounding steel? Either way I'd still love to know...I'm perfectly capable of breaking future taps in something other than steel....

 

[xjs]

Hello all...I have put my engine on hold for now...
I feel it is nearly imposable to build this engine without a mill...
I am saving up for one...
Everyones work looks great!!!

Steve, as I think has been said before, it's just amazing what you've gotten done so far without a mill...I can't wait to see what you could do WITH one. (In the meanwhile, while the piggy-bank is still inhaling, are there enough turning-only parts in the R-8 to keep you occupied, or d'you think you'll try something else entirely?)

 

[Buchanan]

XJS

Have you managed to get that tap out your crank yet?

If you post it to me in Australia I will spark it out on my EDM machine. You only pay the postage.
Regards
Deryck

 

[xjs]

XJS

Have you managed to get that tap out your crank yet?

If you post it to me in Australia I will spark it out on my EDM machine. You only pay the postage.
Regards
Deryck

How can I possibly decline such a generous offer?? PM me with delivery details and it'll be on its way!!

m

 

[canadianhorsepower]

Many thanks for the advice, but I must humbly ask...what is ALUM? A trade name, or chemical, or something else? I certainly love the idea no matter how long it might take...though I noticed that another correspondent has suggested that it might "melt" the surrounding steel? Either way I'd still love to know...I'm perfectly capable of breaking future taps in something other than steel....

Hi "ALUN" is aluminum sulfate and potassium mixe together you can get this
at the grocery store they use that to make pickle crisper when doing marinade or you can get it at a nutaral store product en some pharmacie.

As for it melting steel or metal never happed to me and it's been sucessfull
to many shop
good work on that motor

 

[Brian-in-Oz]

Michael I don't know if this information is useful or not but I have not had that "guts in your boots feeling" when a tap breaks of in your work since using this device. When using small taps you can really "feel" what the tap is doing - when it needs backing off or out for cleaning or has bottomed in the hole. I have used it for all tapping operation on the Edwards and not broken a tap.
It is available from Shars - they call it a Machine Tapping Guide part # 404-7347. Unfortunately it is supplied with a chuck that is "crap" so you need a decent chuck and a drill chuck shank also available from Shars.
1/4" 1JT drill chuck part # 202-5001 and 1/2" J1 chuck shank part # 202-1301.
You need to drive out the shaft on the original chuck and fit the new shank and chuck. The knurled hand piece slides on the shaft that can be gripped in the mill chuck or drill press etc. The brass collar fitted on mine fits in a 3/4" collet which allows more working space when using it with the mill. All up cost under $20.00. - use with Tap Magic and all should be well.
Are you backing out your drills often to clear them of swarf ?
P.S. have just set up to cut fins in top of head - will post photo soon.
Cheers Brian :idea:

 

[xjs]

Hi "ALUN" is aluminum sulfate and potassium mixe together you can get this
at the grocery store they use that to make pickle crisper when doing marinade or you can get it at a nutaral store product en some pharmacie.

As for it melting steel or metal never happed to me and it's been sucessfull
to many shop
good work on that motor

That's great, Luc, many thanks. I had no idea about this technique, but it's now been duly entered into my Book Of Spells. I know it won't be long before I use it!

 

[xjs]

Michael I don't know if this information is useful or not but I have not had that "guts in your boots feeling" when a tap breaks of in your work since using this device. When using small taps you can really "feel" what the tap is doing - when it needs backing off or out for cleaning or has bottomed in the hole. I have used it for all tapping operation on the Edwards and not broken a tap.
It is available from Shars - they call it a Machine Tapping Guide part # 404-7347. Unfortunately it is supplied with a chuck that is "crap" so you need a decent chuck and a drill chuck shank also available from Shars.
1/4" 1JT drill chuck part # 202-5001 and 1/2" J1 chuck shank part # 202-1301.
You need to drive out the shaft on the original chuck and fit the new shank and chuck. The knurled hand piece slides on the shaft that can be gripped in the mill chuck or drill press etc. The brass collar fitted on mine fits in a 3/4" collet which allows more working space when using it with the mill. All up cost under $20.00. - use with Tap Magic and all should be well.
Are you backing out your drills often to clear them of swarf ?
P.S. have just set up to cut fins in top of head - will post photo soon.
Cheers Brian :idea:

If it works for you, Brian, then that's plenty good enough for me. The Incident of the Broken Tap occurred while hand-tapping, with a nice tiny tap-holder, plenty of cutting oil, and I was backing-off every quarter turn -- but it snapped just the same. I can only imagine I'd gotten too used to tapping aluminium and brass, and I didn't have as sensitive a feel as I thought I did. Anyway I love the look of that little gadget, and I'd never dealt with Shars before, so I've placed the order per your instructions and now can look forward to another catalog for bedtime reading. And a whole new tapping experience.

Mahalo nui loa for the kokua. And may good fortune attend your finning.

 

[mu38&Bg#]

Hi "ALUN" is aluminum sulfate and potassium mixe together you can get this
at the grocery store they use that to make pickle crisper when doing marinade or you can get it at a nutaral store product en some pharmacie.

As for it melting steel or metal never happed to me and it's been sucessfull

Can you clarify your method with a steel part? Any mention of taps and alum clearly says for nonferrous parts.

Greg