What kind of engine is right for me?

[eternalightwithin]

So heating last winter was going close to 800 a month and this summer they raised electricity and gas 30% :-X :-[
So I've been starting to build solar PV panels to put atop my shed for help with electricity.
I'd like to build a steam engine and tie it into a generator. The steam would be created via solar concentrator. ie. parabolic dish with boiler at focal point. I've been reading the forums for the last two days and am very excited at all the design, fab work, and beauty of your creations.
Anyways, I'd like to hitch this up to a 3-5kW generator so the engine would have to be 5-8HP. Big I know. :-\
So I'm looking for power and efficiency, if is possible to "have your cake and eat it too."
Always been interested in steam engine, lol my wife and I got married at a train station and instead of having a first dance, we hopped onboard a steam locomotive we rented for the occasion :big:.
But my gosh, never realized how many different designs there were.
Right now, I've been looking at stuart 3 stage engine and tesla turbines as I've heard both are up there in regards to efficiency.
So what can you guys do for me? Help me start on my path towards a project.

sincerely,

ETlight

 

[Cedge]

ET
I too am a huge fan of steam power, so please take my comments in that vein. Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I'd suggest checking into local, state and federal regulations regarding boiler operations before getting too deep into the investment phase. In some places it's almost impossible to navigate the maze of regulations and inspection requirements. Other jurisdictions require the operator to be state certified, which requires training under approved instructors even for simple boilers. You could easily wind up feeling like you've become a small fly in a huge spider's web.

I get these types of inquiries on a very regular basis and only one (an Alaskan) in the past 10 years has actually managed to get his project operational. Between local and state authorities, DHEC, and the EPA, most threw up their hands in frustration. Some of these guys had invested mucho money before they encountered the traps.


Bottom line.... do some serious research..... before going broke... not after....(grin)

Steve

 

[eternalightwithin]

Yeah I figured as such. Maybe now is the time to move onto my dream farm. I figure if yu live in the middle of nowhere, you're bound to be able to do more DIY stuff and not have the local gov breathing down you neck.
So how would you cheaply power a couple HP steam engine? What if I got a certified boiler specialist (there is one in town) to install it for me using a EPA certified boiler. Then I could use solar on it rather than gas/oil fired?

P.S. Have you looked at SolarOne, the new start up company composed of MIT grads. New type of solar collector

 

[Stan]

Since there is no practical way to store steam, your generator would only run when the sun is shining. Although batteries are far from being the most efficient device known, you can store electricity from PV panels during the day for later use. Inverters are now quite cheap to provide the AC voltages needed.

 

[eternalightwithin]

Stan,
Well if you use a latent heat thermal energy storage system you would have longer heat up time, but wold stabilize steam generation during cloud cover. can't remember the phase change material commonly used though. I think it is a sodium salt, hydrated sodium tetraborate?

Edit: So basically what some people do is have a double chambered boiler. The water goes through the inner chamber and surrounding that, is the phase change salt powder that will melt at I think 600oC

ETlight

 

[Cedge]

ET...
You suddenly seem to be seeking debate over answers. I've given you a place to begin your research, assuming you are serious. As a side point... I fail to see where the subject matter has much to do with Home MODEL ENGINE machining.

Steve

 

[eternalightwithin]

sorry, just excited. :big:

Well, I am trying to start a home engine which I'll machine myself. I guess 5 HP isn't considered a model design

Looking at your webpage atm.

 

[mklotz]

eternalightwithin,

Interesting screen name. Care to explain it?

Yes, it's a model engine forum. But that may be good in your case. My recommendation is to build a model concentrator-boiler-engine-generator capable of powering a five watt bulb continuously for a week (of sunlight). My bet is that, once you've done that, you'll have a genuine appreciation of the relative simplicity and reliability of using solar cells to charge batteries.

Please edit your profile to include your location since any scheme involving solar power is location dependent.

 

[eternalightwithin]

Mklotz,

I'm a Christian and eternalightwithin represents Jesus coming in your heart and illuminating from within and out to others. I made it during college and it's been with me for the last decade on the internet. ;D

Yes, I'm doing the solar panels now. I buy the cells and DIY the rest of the panel. Very work intensive but I make my own 250watt panels for 20-30% of the retail.

Cedge,

It's not my intention to debate. Perhaps I should be more direct with my questions and not "go fishing". Since it's my first time here, I was throwing a few things out there to test the waters.
BTW, I love you webpage. I've been there before, but delved deeper in the different links you have. My favorite it that radial engine.

So, I think I'll take your wise advice mklotz and start small ;D
So I went to the store today and picked up so supplies.

PVC pipe 4'' dia. I think 0.1'' thick

HDD platters from dead iomega drive

.085'' high impact coated lexan. (going to double it on each side)

Going to make this to start

Sincerely,

ETlight

P.S. Perhaps my thread is more appropriate to the turbine thread and not Q&A ?

 

[Cedge]

ET
No problem. I'm sure you're enthused with the project, just as many have been before you. I'm just trying to save you from goose chasing with dead presidents. Thanks for the kind words on my site and collection. I'm pleased you enjoyed the visit.

You might want to tour this guy's site and have a look at the design of the Tesla Turbine he's offering. It has an ingenious reversing set up that is dirt simple.

http://www.gyroscope.com/d.asp?product=TESLATURBINE

Steve

 

[tmuir]

This is going a bit off topic but what we do in Australia if producing your own electricity we don't store excess as batteries are expensive and require replacement after a number of years at great expense. Instead we get our power meters modified and when you produce more electricity than you are using you simply put the excess back in the grid and your meter 'runs backwards'.

 

[Bogstandard]

Looking at what you are trying to achieve, and the sorts of engines you are looking at, I think your are p*****g against the wind.

You are looking at model engines, which are designed for occasional running, and a couple of hundred hours during their lifetime would be classed as a good life span.

For the amount of hours you are contemplating, which might run into thousands of hours a year, you should be looking at commercial engines, that have been designed and made for the sort of workload you require.

You only have to look at the triple expansion, very economical and reliable, but they were not left to run on their own, as you would require, they are continually maintained and lubricated, 24 hours a day, while they are doing their job.

I have been asked many times to help make a turbine to do what you are contemplating. It is easy to make a turbine, the first one I did on here only took 3 days to make. If I run it continually for a day, I am sure it would fail. I always refuse such pleas for help, for two main reasons.
The first is that I am only playing at it, even though I have had good success, the other is that I don't have the R&D department that all the big boys have, and so what would take me many years to design and develop, they would most probably do it in a fraction of the time.
Model making is a pastime, they are doing it for the real world.
You will get loads of ideas off here, but remember, what we are doing, in the main, is what the big boys were playing with over a century ago, and things have progressed a lot since then.

John

 

[thezetecman]

Interesting idea,

But I guess the development cost will be more that your power costs for 200 years.
I think making energy efficiency improvements is the way to go. Fitting more insulation, a condensing boiler solar water heating system. Lots of good projects there.

What about water energy storage system, or a flywheel energy storage system. linked to a small model engine.

I was going to build a big Stirling engine with some form of energy storage for self starting. Having realized how large a 350 watt Stirling engine is but have now decided a model one is more achievable.

Regards
p

 

[Bogstandard]

I forgot to mention, if you have open running water on your property, there are modern day designs that can help, also wind power is getting up there as well.

The main problems are recouping your costs and making a plus on it, before the machinery needs replacing when it is worn out. Check to see whether anyone gives a long enough written guarantee with their equipment to recoup the initial costs. I think you will find, none of them do. In which case they are a non starter from the beginning.

John