Steam engine lubrication

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Bentwings

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I have an electric stove . I’m not sure how it is wired. I’m assuming a plug. If so I could make or purchase a shirt or bit longer extension cod with multiple plugs so I could either plug in the stove as needed. I don’t us it often or just plug in a cord for the induction heater . That way I’d have 20 vac and circuitry heavy enough to drive a pretty substantial inductance heater. My car person , my sister will go nuts if she sees the stove pulled out, so I’ll have to do this sure piteously and carefully hide the extension cord. It’s my house and my stuff so I can argue pints if necessary,. I’m not an electrician so I’d have the extension professionally done . Some of the newer heaters are incredibly efficient.
I did plant on having the induction coils outside with internal circulation tubing I have some 1/4” stainless steel tubing and we have a very good tight radius bender as well as a very good flaring tool that does all standard flares and bulges or rings.
Interesting thing. I didn’t know there is both wet steam snd dry steam an they can coexist. I see the steam tables note this but there are no calculations or theories . Ie education on them pure data
I’ll Oder materials the first part of the week. My son just got a handful of new lathe and mill tools so I’ll make use of them . I’m hoping my self therapy will allow my return to limited TIG welding . I’m going to try and finish engine assembly tonight I’m almost done .
Byron
 

Bentwings

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Thanks for clas on how steam works I’ll save this and apply as I go.
one thing I question is engine displacement. I was told not to forget the piston length or thickness. I don’t understand this. The piston goes up and down each stroke so the volume displaced is just the volume changed above the piston in hydraulics we consider the ro diameter both volume and area but for this the rod is pretty small 2 mm I’ll measure the piston thickness and hav it handy later .
So here is the formula we use in auto world
1/2 bore squared times stroke times number of cylinders

boe is 14 mm
Stroke is 18 mm
Number of cylinders I’d four , but it’s double acting so essentially eight strokes .
I found an online calculator that does all the conversion from metric to imperial automatically

Doing this . Total displacement is 1.353 cu in
22.167cc
0.022 liter
From here we can multiply by rpm to get cu in per minute or length of time.
I’ll have a pressure gage on the intake line so I cn monitor pressure the engine is getting at what ever speed it is running

if I load the engine I’ll be able to monitor pressure required per load value , torque for example or generator toe volts amps output . Since pressure gages are pretty inexpensive I could monitor exhaust pressure too since I could connect a turbine to the exhaust . Temp is more difficult but the trusty infrared gun is quick . I have an immisitivity table too for various materials pipes can be made from.
as you can see this is rapidly becoming a complicated science project.
being retired and essentially immobile I have plenty of time on my hands. My TV HAS NOT BEEN ON FOR MONTS EXCEPT WHEN KITTY STEPS ON CONTROLLER

so now I’m going to try and get into translation of the neat facts presented in the first part of the questions that were asked of me . I’ll be on loose rocks here as I’ll be out of my education level. But I’m not opposed to learning .
Byron
I have one smal more like tiny turbine I got without reading the fine print
I’ve done some work with condenser vortex towers as they were called in the textile plant I worked at these were used to separate particles from the raw cotton after it was “ opened” or broken down from bales. These spun the material around very fast so heavy things like metal fence wire and rushed plant parts were thrown out of the cotton . The trash collected in the bottom where it was removed and made into other products magnets took care of iron various wings further separated chunks of cotton this again was refined . These used air but were essentially centrifugal separators . So this mini turbine is supposed to turn pretty fast. My thought was that it would act as a centrifuge and throw the water or heavier drops out the collet it at the outlet . I’m assuming the steam would still be quite warm so it would just collect in a low point and flow out the exhaust pipe . There would still be oil in the steam vapor so lubing the bearings should not be a problem . One reviewer di kill the bearing but he used very high pressure air and almost no lube. I have a bigger turbine that could possibly do a better job . It’s one of the many little projects I’d like to do with the engine.

I did get one engine assembled except for the piston valve eccentrics and link rods. These just slip onto the crankshafts have the valve port mounted. It should go much easier tomorrow as I have everything ready now . It’s going to be a very nasty day tomorrow sleet ice and snow . Sleeting now at 1:00 am time to hit the bed .
Byron
 

Bentwings

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Thanks for clas on how steam works I’ll save this and apply as I go.
one thing I question is engine displacement. I was told not to forget the piston length or thickness. I don’t understand this. The piston goes up and down each stroke so the volume displaced is just the volume changed above the piston in hydraulics we consider the ro diameter both volume and area but for this the rod is pretty small 2 mm I’ll measure the piston thickness and hav it handy later .
So here is the formula we use in auto world
1/2 bore squared times stroke times number of cylinders

boe is 14 mm
Stroke is 18 mm
Number of cylinders I’d four , but it’s double acting so essentially eight strokes .
I found an online calculator that does all the conversion from metric to imperial automatically

Doing this . Total displacement is 1.353 cu in
22.167cc
0.022 liter
From here we can multiply by rpm to get cu in per minute or length of time.
I’ll have a pressure gage on the intake line so I cn monitor pressure the engine is getting at what ever speed it is running

if I load the engine I’ll be able to monitor pressure required per load value , torque for example or generator toe volts amps output . Since pressure gages are pretty inexpensive I could monitor exhaust pressure too since I could connect a turbine to the exhaust . Temp is more difficult but the trusty infrared gun is quick . I have an immisitivity table too for various materials pipes can be made from.
as you can see this is rapidly becoming a complicated science project.
being retired and essentially immobile I have plenty of time on my hands. My TV HAS NOT BEEN ON FOR MONTS EXCEPT WHEN KITTY STEPS ON CONTROLLER

so now I’m going to try and get into translation of the neat facts presented in the first part of the questions that were asked of me . I’ll be on loose rocks here as I’ll be out of my education level. But I’m not opposed to learning .
Byron
ok I’m about to finish assembly. But I’d like to revisit oils for just a short time . Years ago I roped into playing soldier with Airsoft plastic bb s . Of all the poor aerodynamic things plastic bb probably is the worst. Initially there were various attempts to increase velocities so rules Er applied as high velocity at close range really hurt. Then all kinds of things were don to improve accuracy 100 yds was th goal if you could hit a person at 100 yds with some consistency you were expert. I had a co 2 powered full size model M 14 it weighed almost th same as he real on and could fire full auto . With a lot of no king around I could drill someone at 100 yds pretty consistently it had s full scale operating bolt so made a horrific sound . I was a terrorist. Sneaking in the woods and drilling the unsuspected with an ouch producing hit wit a sound that rivaled real life . Especially on full auto .
so what was the solution? Well precision polished and lapped barrels both stainless steel and brass then lubrication most standard outing did not hold up well with cheap oils so we began using silicone Rc car oils . These are available in a full range of viscosities.
I’d be the first to say not on stem . I can’t prove this but c cars are brutal on oiled parts. So just using compressed air on a steamer these lubes might work. They are incredibl slippery . Since we won’t be outside in minnesota winter we can forget freezing cold day 70 deg F about room temp I think a 30 weight might be a good start point . My little engine has brass bearings with polished crankshaft journals so I guess not a bad combination pistons are brass with Teflon o rings also Teflon connecting rod packings . So far air tool oil is pretty smooth turning the packings control drag greatly I’ll need a special tool to adjust them short of minor disassembly . I suspect he silicone oil could make an easier rotation effort . My grandson has a bunch of the stuff he said I could tr so I YHINK I’ll experiment as soon as I finish assembly . I’ll see if I can get some this week end.
What is he opinion of y’all? Good bad or ugly. LOL these silicone oils are pretty tenacious so maybe Steam won’t remove them as fast as standard oils. Film strength seems good the Rc cars destroy plain bearings easily ball bearings hold up muc Bette dirt is th big killer.
So another issue I expected. The flywheel won’t stay tight even with the M3 shcpscrew I managed to mar the crank as I suspected I’ll grind a flat on it . I’d like to spot drill the crank so the screw can dig in then loc tight it . I’m goingvto make a drill fixture out of the spare steel flywheel as soon as I can get to the shop.
I’m afraid the tap drill will damage the brass threads on the good flywheel We have another winte storm wit sleet rain and snow. I’m not going out today .
mill get some pictures as I finish up .
Byron
 

Bentwings

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this spell check is just devastating my posts. I’m goingvto look into disabling it. It seems that no matter how well I proof read it just crests it’s own issues later. I did get the compressor today we had it up and running by 2pm. It still has not kicked on since then it’s got almost 120 psi in the tank. The recovery time is spectacular. It only took a couple minutes when we tested it . It’s so quiet that my kitty doesn’t even startle . My son is goingvto put a hook up hose together for me. Otherwise I just need some 1/4” I’d hose and a couple clamps.
I did make some progress with the engine assembly . There are two different assembly drawings one is the new style engine the other is a different twin cyl engine one way or another I’ll get it . I have the right parts for the twin engines it’s just the assembly drawing makes it confusing. I’m just folding the odd drawing up and putting it away, save for reference .
I got some blue lock tite so parts would not be too hard to service. I’ve used this for years and never had issues. I put just a tiny drop in the piston attaching nut m 3 as is the piston. Well the stuff wicks even better than thin superglue . It stuck the piston on really tight then the m3 nut threads were full of it . I had to run a tap through both to clean them out . Not a big deal but very time consuming . Just getting the tap started was tough not the nut and the piston then I re tapped all m3 holes in the frames as screws were very tight in most I was able to run the tap out with my driver fill but I didn’t think it was a good idea to try and start the tap with the drill . It’s just asking for cross thread or broken tap. My son said he would mak oiler tubes for the main bearing caps this week otherwise I can u my little medical syringes . They work very well . So far the rotating assemblies are moving without issue. I did get the throttle revers control assembled. That’s just a spool valve with a slot in it and in and out ports with fittings o once the air manifold is done I’ll be ready to run on air for now .
By the way thanks for the numbers. I saw some ofvthe demonology you used on the steam tables so I’ll look into that further.
once this machine is running I YHINK the first test will be to run it untill the compressor comes on and check the pressure. From this I think I’ll be able to get a better handle on how much volume and at what pressure I can run at. Then I can get a better idea of how much water I need to boil to maintain operating conditions . Then I have to look at the aluminum base plate so the engines are dead flat and even. I’m goingvto have to remount one engine as it is so the flywheel connection works correctly . I’d really prefer a flex coupling there instead. I just saw a short flex coupling for tight spaces so I’ll Perdue that one too.
Byron
I’ve already had issues with loose flywheel . I’m starting to think about a better securing method I thought about ashear pin but the shaft is only 6mm a 2 mm hole in it is too much loss of strength I think . I’m thinking that I may have to make a clamping adaptor an drill out he flywheel and install a key way there is not a lot of meat i the hub either. Also a dog driver might work. I’ll be thinking later today . I questioned this long before I purchased the engine . I don’t want to lock tite the crew as it may wick down to the sly wheel bore while attaching it will be solved removing it might be another story.
byron
 

HMEL

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Thanks for clas on how steam works I’ll save this and apply as I go.
one thing I question is engine displacement. I was told not to forget the piston length or thickness. I don’t understand this. The piston goes up and down each stroke so the volume displaced is just the volume changed above the piston in hydraulics we consider the ro diameter both volume and area but for this the rod is pretty small 2 mm I’ll measure the piston thickness and hav it handy later .
So here is the formula we use in auto world
1/2 bore squared times stroke times number of cylinders

boe is 14 mm
Stroke is 18 mm
Number of cylinders I’d four , but it’s double acting so essentially eight strokes .
I found an online calculator that does all the conversion from metric to imperial automatically

Doing this . Total displacement is 1.353 cu in
22.167cc
0.022 liter
From here we can multiply by rpm to get cu in per minute or length of time.
I’ll have a pressure gage on the intake line so I cn monitor pressure the engine is getting at what ever speed it is running

if I load the engine I’ll be able to monitor pressure required per load value , torque for example or generator toe volts amps output . Since pressure gages are pretty inexpensive I could monitor exhaust pressure too since I could connect a turbine to the exhaust . Temp is more difficult but the trusty infrared gun is quick . I have an immisitivity table too for various materials pipes can be made from.
as you can see this is rapidly becoming a complicated science project.
being retired and essentially immobile I have plenty of time on my hands. My TV HAS NOT BEEN ON FOR MONTS EXCEPT WHEN KITTY STEPS ON CONTROLLER

so now I’m going to try and get into translation of the neat facts presented in the first part of the questions that were asked of me . I’ll be on loose rocks here as I’ll be out of my education level. But I’m not opposed to learning .
Byron
I agree with you the piston wall does not make a lot of sense. But I also do not know what or how they make their calculations. I can only reason that the double acting piston in their case is hollowed out to the rod connector and this volume is added to the expansion volume of the cylinder. You might want to do that to make the piston lighter. Its a correction that makes the calculation more accurate.

Work done is often calculated as a Pressure times volume. Units are annoying but for steam its fairly common technique. So if you take the boiler pressure in lbs/in square times the usable expansion volume in cubic inches you will have the work done. We would want to express our number in ft-lbf (ft-lb force). which can be converted using these conversions. 1hp=33,000 ft-lbf/min Kw=44,220 ft-1bf/min 1hp=.746kw

So here is an example of 20 psi expanded to 3 cubic feet (Assuming constant pressure ) first we must convert 20psi (20lbsf/in square) to units in feet and that conversion done by multiplying by 144in2/ft2 and that by 3 cubic ft we have 5760 ft-1bf.

This will give you a close estimate for one move of the piston of its work done. For the power we need to add time usually in rpm.

I would suggest you calculate the steam on one revolution of the flywheel and then you can multiply that by rpm to get the desired steam flow and horsepower

Apologize for the long description. Not sure this will help and the technique is simple. Take care and maybe you can train that cat to operate the tv on command.
Take care
HMEL
 

Bentwings

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I agree with you the piston wall does not make a lot of sense. But I also do not know what or how they make their calculations. I can only reason that the double acting piston in their case is hollowed out to the rod connector and this volume is added to the expansion volume of the cylinder. You might want to do that to make the piston lighter. Its a correction that makes the calculation more accurate.

Work done is often calculated as a Pressure times volume. Units are annoying but for steam its fairly common technique. So if you take the boiler pressure in lbs/in square times the usable expansion volume in cubic inches you will have the work done. We would want to express our number in ft-lbf (ft-lb force). which can be converted using these conversions. 1hp=33,000 ft-lbf/min Kw=44,220 ft-1bf/min 1hp=.746kw

So here is an example of 20 psi expanded to 3 cubic feet (Assuming constant pressure ) first we must convert 20psi (20lbsf/in square) to units in feet and that conversion done by multiplying by 144in2/ft2 and that by 3 cubic ft we have 5760 ft-1bf.

This will give you a close estimate for one move of the piston of its work done. For the power we need to add time usually in rpm.

I would suggest you calculate the steam on one revolution of the flywheel and then you can multiply that by rpm to get the desired steam flow and horsepower

Apologize for the long description. Not sure this will help and the technique is simple. Take care and maybe you can train that cat to operate the tv on command.
Take care
HMEL
thanks for the additional math. I’ll make a note card so I have it handy.
I forgot to measure where the piston is in the cylinder last night I’m a both ready to add the remaining pair is cylinders snd pistons so I’ll measure an take pictures.
I suppose if he piston is not near flush at the top of stroke and near touching the bottom at the bottom of the stroke you might have to account for the dead spaces. In this case it’s almost 0 I think. In any case it’s very small . The piston is very light even in brass, by the time the ring groove material is discounted and the counterbore for the attaching nut there is not much left the two rings are Teflon so the weight is grams and not many at that.
the dog gone blue lock tite wicked into the threads on the pistons so I had a tough time removing them I had to run the m3 tap through them. Then do the same on the nuts. I’m getting rid of this stuff the amount was so smal you could hardly see the blue even under the magnifying glass . I’ll go out of my way to get he 3 m stuff next time . Good thing I didn’t use it on everything . I’ll see what comes loose as I run it . I got a new hose coming tomorrow. I don’t like the coiled thing it just gets in the way.
min goingvto have to come up with a packing nut adjusting tool otherwise I have to remove the cylinders and slide valves . This little engine is like servicing new cars. You have to take every thing apart to do and work on it . It’s also small. Hopefully I’ll be done assembly today .
byron
 

Bentwings

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Thanks for clas on how steam works I’ll save this and apply as I go.
one thing I question is engine displacement. I was told not to forget the piston length or thickness. I don’t understand this. The piston goes up and down each stroke so the volume displaced is just the volume changed above the piston in hydraulics we consider the ro diameter both volume and area but for this the rod is pretty small 2 mm I’ll measure the piston thickness and hav it handy later .
So here is the formula we use in auto world
1/2 bore squared times stroke times number of cylinders

boe is 14 mm
Stroke is 18 mm
Number of cylinders I’d four , but it’s double acting so essentially eight strokes .
I found an online calculator that does all the conversion from metric to imperial automatically

Doing this . Total displacement is 1.353 cu in
22.167cc
0.022 liter
From here we can multiply by rpm to get cu in per minute or length of time.
I’ll have a pressure gage on the intake line so I cn monitor pressure the engine is getting at what ever speed it is running

if I load the engine I’ll be able to monitor pressure required per load value , torque for example or generator toe volts amps output . Since pressure gages are pretty inexpensive I could monitor exhaust pressure too since I could connect a turbine to the exhaust . Temp is more difficult but the trusty infrared gun is quick . I have an immisitivity table too for various materials pipes can be made from.
as you can see this is rapidly becoming a complicated science project.
being retired and essentially immobile I have plenty of time on my hands. My TV HAS NOT BEEN ON FOR MONTS EXCEPT WHEN KITTY STEPS ON CONTROLLER

so now I’m going to try and get into translation of the neat facts presented in the first part of the questions that were asked of me . I’ll be on loose rocks here as I’ll be out of my education level. But I’m not opposed to learning .
Byron
Here are end views of the cylinders
I ran into another snag as the holes where the cylinders mount to won’t let me thread the screws in as far as they need to go. So I’m trying to run a tap in them but really having a hard time just getting the tap started. I have 2 new m 3 taps but there must be something blocking the holes almost like damaged threads.. I m trying to be careful about cross threading too the tap just won’t start I just came up with a guide so maybe that will help . The weather is really bad sleet rain snow all day , severe weather warning just posted . More snow and colder
Byron 83A95275-49CD-4907-8B42-47D5DD64639E.jpeg 874B644F-A088-4F10-9D74-43DD7ACF31D5.jpeg 874B644F-A088-4F10-9D74-43DD7ACF31D5.jpeg 874B644F-A088-4F10-9D74-43DD7ACF31D5.jpeg
 
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Hi Byron, I am not sure what your turbine project is about? Oil separation from the exhaust? Cyclone separators are commonly used. Just a tangential side feed into a cylinder with a central axial exhaust and the condensate and oil will be separated from any vapour that is exhausted. Oil condenses at a higher temperature than steam, anyway. So what is left to be vented is pretty oil-free.
It does NOT need a turbine to spin it, the gas will spin much faster without. The same process is used in many industrial processes, e.g. separating U238 and U235, if you want to enrich Uranium.
So I suggest you find a different project for the turbine. Like powering a generator?
K2
 

Bentwings

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Hi Byron, I am not sure what your turbine project is about? Oil separation from the exhaust? Cyclone separators are commonly used. Just a tangential side feed into a cylinder with a central axial exhaust and the condensate and oil will be separated from any vapour that is exhausted. Oil condenses at a higher temperature than steam, anyway. So what is left to be vented is pretty oil-free.
It does NOT need a turbine to spin it, the gas will spin much faster without. The same process is used in many industrial processes, e.g. separating U238 and U235, if you want to enrich Uranium.
So I suggest you find a different project for the turbine. Like powering a generator?
K2
Ok that’s real good to know . It will simplify that part of this project . Chilertern has a condenser with what looks like a funnel on the top. I can see doing the reverse as that’s what the textile ones were like . At least I won’t have to deal with metal in the condensate . At least I hope not . I was working last night to try and finish up when I discovered the supplied screws for an item are too long . It was hard enough to get them installed but now the instructions say to cut them off if necessary. That’s easier said than done I can cut them off and chamfer them but that’s no guarantee they will thread in easily. I can leave a nut on them of course but these take a kind Allen hex driver and there is not much working room. I’ll see if the local hardware store has any shorter ones m 3 x 12 , not likely I’ll call the hobby shop tomorrow ans see if he has any for Rc cars . I’ll try one screw and see if I get a clean thread. It would be nice to have a die so I’ll Oder one tomorrow so I have it later . I also found the cylinder mount screws are slot head rather than socket head . Mc master Carr has the right screws so I YHINK I’ll just order them tomorrow. I have a metric screw set but it doesn’t have short or long screws. . At least they are not $20 each like the race car head studs . I don’t like the single flywheel as a shaft connector. If I use a short disc coupling I can just slide the flywheel on on shaft farther . It will be righ next to a main bearing so it should not affect the way the engines run . It seems well balanced I also found carbide spotting drills so I can use the steel flywheel as a drill guide these make a small center drill spot so I can more accurately locate the flywheel lock bolts also the eccentric uses the same m6 grub screw there is just enough clearance so I can use socket head cap screws instead of grub screws. They have really thin walls around the Allen key hole so I can get around that issue too . We got almost 6” wet snow last night . It was tough just shoveling the walkway out to the street this morning. I sprayed WD40 on the shovel and broom so wet snow does not stick to them. Well I’m going to get back to work. If I get stuck again I’ll sit down and do some calculating .
Byron
 

Bentwings

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Well last night was my fittest test run after screwing around trying to get the eccentric timing right I got one cylinder to more or less work so I inverted the or mirrored the position on the second cyl. Zoom the thing took off running on abou 35 psi air pressure it ran about 3 minutes the stopped . Well the eccentric had come loose as I suspected it would then marred the crankshaft. Looking around both had come loose making a mess . Rut cause was the piston valve connecting rods had come loose too so I now have the whole engingine disassembled . No real damage except the crankshaft is a mess I YHINK the bore of the eccentric may be messed up too . I’m working on a better method of securing these things then I’ll lock tite everything . The blue stuff I have is like super glue. It wicks all over so I have to be careful not to get it in bearings I hav a position measurement of the piston valve so I should be able to get the timing to a running situation again . The engine turns very free now even the packing worked ok I’ve ordered som 3mm I’d Teflon o rings for that too . Now to get every thing back together .

Byron
 
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Hi Byron, Aftercthe rebuild, I suggest you start at maybe 5psi, spin the engine by hand, then 10psi, 15, psi, etc. until it runs without stalling. Make sure there is plenty of oil everywhere before winding it up to 50psi. It just might save you doing a rebuild again.
K2
 

Bentwings

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Hi Byron, Aftercthe rebuild, I suggest you start at maybe 5psi, spin the engine by hand, then 10psi, 15, psi, etc. until it runs without stalling. Make sure there is plenty of oil everywhere before winding it up to 50psi. It just might save you doing a rebuild again.
K2
thats exactly how I did get the thing to run. Very good idea. It was just purring along. I was going to stop and it stopped. I realy don’t like the blue lock tite as it wicks into everything I use just super tiny pin point amounts even using a q tip to wipe off any excess . I had a terrible time getting the threaded piston off the threaded shaft I wrapped tape around it then a piece of fine Emory paper and careful use of pliers. I finally came off after I gently warmed the shaft with the solder torch. Some of the screws are going to be really hard to remove if needed with the “blue” on them. I have at least 5 sets or various ball drivers of various lengths there are a couple spots where straight in access just isn’t there I finally have some 3 mm Teflon o rings coming snd dome 3 mm I’d Teflon tubing so I can make better packing . The tape worked fine there were no leaks there and the little bit of light oil loosened them just fine my son is working on the new eccentric retainer . It’s a tricky part to make on our 10x 20 lathe all the parts on these engines are so perfectly made , it a shame that there wasn’t a better way to mount the eccentrics. Looking around I see the same method is pretty common so who am I to criticize? One way or another this is goingvto be a solid mount that’s adjustable exactly . It may not need it but it was only a few degrees that it either worked or did not I just hope I can get them off the crank with minimum damage. All 4 of the eccentrics on this engine turn very smoothly even the crankshaft spins nice . The flywheel is another issue the 4mm grub screw goes

Byronin at a small angle. Well this just pushes the flywheel along untill something sticks that’s a chewed up crankshaft too. So I’ll make a locking device for that too.The big flywheel has 4 screws in it 45 deg apart so it should stay in place I can flat spot the crank too but again I’ll modify the adjustable shaft lock for this too. As you can see I’m a bullet proofer as they call me. The term is called poky yoke in engineering . It was invented by a guy name of Demming I YHINK after WW2 to fix Japanese production. It was promoted in college too In kind words it means fool proofing . It goes along with “ you can’t fool proof” the fool . So that’s my efforts on this engine.

I’m goingvto go through the other engine before i test it further also take close up ictures son I can secexactly where the eccentrics are located fortunately I can measure the exact position of the piston slide valve . So I’ll be able to set timing where it needs to be right from the start.
 

Bentwings

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thats exactly how I did get the thing to run. Very good idea. It was just purring along. I was going to stop and it stopped. I realy don’t like the blue lock tite as it wicks into everything I use just super tiny pin point amounts even using a q tip to wipe off any excess . I had a terrible time getting the threaded piston off the threaded shaft I wrapped tape around it then a piece of fine Emory paper and careful use of pliers. I finally came off after I gently warmed the shaft with the solder torch. Some of the screws are going to be really hard to remove if needed with the “blue” on them. I have at least 5 sets or various ball drivers of various lengths there are a couple spots where straight in access just isn’t there I finally have some 3 mm Teflon o rings coming snd dome 3 mm I’d Teflon tubing so I can make better packing . The tape worked fine there were no leaks there and the little bit of light oil loosened them just fine my son is working on the new eccentric retainer . It’s a tricky part to make on our 10x 20 lathe all the parts on these engines are so perfectly made , it a shame that there wasn’t a better way to mount the eccentrics. Looking around I see the same method is pretty common so who am I to criticize? One way or another this is goingvto be a solid mount that’s adjustable exactly . It may not need it but it was only a few degrees that it either worked or did not I just hope I can get them off the crank with minimum damage. All 4 of the eccentrics on this engine turn very smoothly even the crankshaft spins nice . The flywheel is another issue the 4mm grub screw goes

Byronin at a small angle. Well this just pushes the flywheel along untill something sticks that’s a chewed up crankshaft too. So I’ll make a locking device for that too.The big flywheel has 4 screws in it 45 deg apart so it should stay in place I can flat spot the crank too but again I’ll modify the adjustable shaft lock for this too. As you can see I’m a bullet proofer as they call me. The term is called poky yoke in engineering . It was invented by a guy name of Demming I YHINK after WW2 to fix Japanese production. It was promoted in college too In kind words it means fool proofing . It goes along with “ you can’t fool proof” the fool . So that’s my efforts on this engine.

I’m goingvto go through the other engine before i test it further also take close up ictures son I can secexactly where the eccentrics are located fortunately I can measure the exact position of the piston slide valve . So I’ll be able to set timing where it needs to be right from the start.
isci got the cylinders to fire properly I added a thin drop of marvel oil to each port but what really smoothedcthings out was the drop of plain motor oil on each main an rod bearings . It turns over very easy now the little tight spot is gone too. The other engine turns over very easy now too . I’ll go over it and lock tite all the screws and piston connecting rods. I may order a piece of stainless steel and make new connecting rods, I may be possible to just add one tub of thread to give more room for the locking nuts. I should be able to set number two up more precisely too . I seriously doubt I’ll be able to run 50 psi unless it already under heavy load. The two brass fly wheels are a big inertia load so changing speed by pressure will be a bit touchy . I have a neat throttle valve that I YHINK I’ll install too that way I’ll be able to watch pressure and rpm together

Byron
 

Bentwings

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isci got the cylinders to fire properly I added a thin drop of marvel oil to each port but what really smoothedcthings out was the drop of plain motor oil on each main an rod bearings . It turns over very easy now the little tight spot is gone too. The other engine turns over very easy now too . I’ll go over it and lock tite all the screws and piston connecting rods. I may order a piece of stainless steel and make new connecting rods, I may be possible to just add one tub of thread to give more room for the locking nuts. I should be able to set number two up more precisely too . I seriously doubt I’ll be able to run 50 psi unless it already under heavy load. The two brass fly wheels are a big inertia load so changing speed by pressure will be a bit touchy . I have a neat throttle valve that I YHINK I’ll install too that way I’ll be able to watch pressure and rpm together

Byronic start much more gently this time I’m just getting started today . More interruptions I’m taking picture as I go so I can find an fix each piece . I feel bad . I raced cars and Rc planes for years and never blew up an engine in testing I don’t like the grub screw set screw mounting on shafts it’s just asking for trouble . I know it’s common on the steamers but it’s going away on this one . I’m going to have to sit down and break out the cad again then either get to the shop or just send the stuff out . I hate that too as I know I could make what ever I need. I’d like to get rid of the heavy duty connecting hose but it’s steam rated so about the only thing I could use I’d often that would be smaller or run copper or brass connections . Well I’m goingvto repair it first then make changes as needed. Hopefully I can make a short video .

Byron
 
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Hi Byron, Sounds like you are getting into the nitty-gritty of the development now! This is where the hard brain works counts. Only you can decide on how to feed steam from the boiler to the engine, and how to control that steam (regulator valve), but have you started making the boiler yet? Remember all steam lines should be well insulated to ensure minimal condensation in transit from boiler to engine.
As I mentioned earlier, (and it was drummed into me at a very early stage!) hydraulic locking an engine is forbidden! It is very likely to damage the engine So adequate warming with a tiny feed of steam is Really necessary before you admit any pressure or volume of steam to the engine.
From your experience with air, and necessary remedial work, I am sure that you'll appreciate that to avoid further damage, you need to be much more careful when using steam, as it contains so much more energy than air. And if you have some condensate in an engine you can do worse damage as a consequence, due to hydraulic locking.
So remember, just a crack of the steam valve on a cold engine, and turn it over BY HAND (referred to as "Barring an engine") many revolutions while the steam heats it up and the small amount of condensate blows through...
ONLY when the engine is really hot and steam with very little condensate blows through should you open the throttle bit-by-bit until the engine kicks into life.
One thing to mention regarding location of the steam regulator: This should be BEFORE the superheater (if you have one), as "locomotive practice". If after the superheater, you can get water into the superheater, which will quickly flash to steam before the boiler is hot and generates steam. And as a steam novice, you won't appreciate what is happening - thus leading to some risk of errors. (Been there many years ago!).
Have fun!
K2
 
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Bentwings

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Hi Byron, Sounds like you are getting into the nitty-gritty of the development now! This is where the hard brain works counts. Only you can decide on how to feed steam from the boiler to the engine, and how to control that steam (regulator valve), but have you started making the boiler yet? Remember all steam lines should be well insulated to ensure minimal condensation in transit from boiler to engine.
As I mentioned earlier, (and it was drummed into me at a very early stage!) hydraulic locking an engine is forbidden! It is very likely to damage the engine So adequate warming with a tiny feed of steam is Really necessary before you admit any pressure or volume of steam to the engine.
From your experience with air, and necessary remedial work, I am sure that you'll appreciate that to avoid further damage, you need to be much more careful when using steam, as it contains so much more energy than air. And if you have some condensate in an engine you can do worse damage as a consequence, due to hydraulic locking.
So remember, just a crack of the steam valve on a cold engine, and turn it over BY HAND (referred to as "Barring an engine") many revolutions while the steam heats it up and the small amount of condensate blows through...
ONLY when the engine is really hot and steam with very little condensate blows through should you open the throttle bit-by-bit until the engine kicks into life.
One thing to mention regarding location of the steam regulator: This should be BEFORE the superheater (if you have one), as "locomotive practice". If after the superheater, you can get water into the superheater, which will quickly flash to steam before the boiler is hot and generates steam. And as a steam novice, you won't appreciate what is happening - thus leading to some risk of errors. (Been there many years ago!).
Have fun!
K2
I did read your note earlier about hydro lock . I had not considered this but I guess that’s why in the real loco world years ago they blasted enormous cloud of vapor before moving at the station
As I initially assembled the engines I noted that the pistons have little space at top dead center and bottom dead center. Somewhere I read or noted that the valve timing is such that right before these conditions the ports open providing a cushion for the piston to compress against. It prevents knocking or rapid take up of bearing clearance IC engines don’t realy have this as they are compressing or under power and load essentially all the time . That may be over simplification, but making sure the cylinders are clear makes sense I did rotate the engine a number of times to make sure that oil had not accumulated . But I’ll be sure to include a way to clear the cylinders or at least turn the engines over by hand before running standard procedure in hot rods we even do this at the end of a run in case the fuel leaks as there is considerable pressure in nitro systems.

You are right I’m learning things as thre are lots of these engine running . I just don’t like set screw or grub screw into a shaft unless there is an exact flat spot that prevents rotation . In this case there is noting . The instruction says “ make it like the picture “ in fortunately I found his rathe oblique and ambiguous. I’m used to accurately decreeing the cam or cams .
And of course I have no specs to go by , so it’s a trial and error and a chewed up crank now . I found made to order shaft coupler that are clamp on and pretty short so I could make it to fit allowable space. Since I have machining capability I’ll make custom fit I need 4 total but over $ 100 each is a bit hard to swallow. I can buy aluminum bar stock and design an make my own I just can’t do it over night . Essentially the front ofvthe coupler will clamp the hub of the eccentric to the crank allowing adjustment then the entire coupler will clamp to the crank too . It sounds complicated but it is not just making it fit in allowable space will take away from engine to engine coupling space but there is room there no real close tolerances either .

I’m a little uncomfortable doing this as others have had success using what I consider “ old school” methods . It sometimes takes a while to develope stuff like this but we often had lengthy debates on mfg processes and fixes . I’m just doing the debate internally in my mind .

As for the boiler it’s slow as I have had just endless interruptions . Once again another interruption “ my heat went off last night. It’s 55 deg in the house no help until late after noon . I have a portable heater I’ll move to the hobby room so I can continue rebuilding the short blocks. I think the super heater I proposed will work .
Question: if I have some volume of super heated steam say just in the “ dry stage” if I bleed this into an empty tank like an air tank carefully observing pressure of course and pressurize to say 225 psi. Well within limits of standard air tank. ? Will there be too much cooling thus condensation ? I could bleed the tank of course . I also have a very good ac vacuum pump so I could vacuum the tank first I YHINK it may be a test I’ll have to do at some point I really need to get the boiler done before getting into this I think . I’ll do some start up and bleed downs before functional operations. I already have dual-electrical timers so I’m trying to prevent a runaway. Dealing with the aviation and military I’m well aware of double redundancy. In hot rods we had some and now there are multiple fuel and ignition controls. As well as fire controls. Since I have several nice flex couplings I YHINK I’ll do a dry test using a small electrical drill to break in the packing gland and circular oils. I’ve got measurements of where the timing was that allowed easy running so I’ll start there and develope a better setting method .
I’ll be able to describe this better once I test it out . I know I’m really against the grain here but even airlines Chang their check lists occasionally especially after an “ incident “
I have to say this is a very interesting hobby lots to learn lots of great guys willing to help out.
Actually glad I didn’t have steam perational. I had not planned on this issue so I would have had to have a quick way to shut the steam off other than the valve I was using. So another item to consider. I won’t put steam in until I can operate the engines reliably
I’m also dealing with my late son’s estate so many phone calls .
 
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Bentwings

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I did read your note earlier about hydro lock . I had not considered this but I guess that’s why in the real loco world years ago they blasted enormous cloud of vapor before moving at the station
As I initially assembled the engines I noted that the pistons have little space at top dead center and bottom dead center. Somewhere I read or noted that the valve timing is such that right before these conditions the ports open providing a cushion for the piston to compress against. It prevents knocking or rapid take up of bearing clearance IC engines don’t realy have this as they are compressing or under power and load essentially all the time . That may be over simplification, but making sure the cylinders are clear makes sense I did rotate the engine a number of times to make sure that oil had not accumulated . But I’ll be sure to include a way to clear the cylinders or at least turn the engines over by hand before running standard procedure in hot rods we even do this at the end of a run in case the fuel leaks as there is considerable pressure in nitro systems.

You are right I’m learning things as thre are lots of these engine running . I just don’t like set screw or grub screw into a shaft unless there is an exact flat spot that prevents rotation . In this case there is noting . The instruction says “ make it like the picture “ in fortunately I found his rathe oblique and ambiguous. I’m used to accurately decreeing the cam or cams .
And of course I have no specs to go by , so it’s a trial and error and a chewed up crank now . I found made to order shaft coupler that are clamp on and pretty short so I could make it to fit allowable space. Since I have machining capability I’ll make custom fit I need 4 total but over $ 100 each is a bit hard to swallow. I can buy aluminum bar stock and design an make my own I just can’t do it over night . Essentially the front ofvthe coupler will clamp the hub of the eccentric to the crank allowing adjustment then the entire coupler will clamp to the crank too . It sounds complicated but it is not just making it fit in allowable space will take away from engine to engine coupling space but there is room there no real close tolerances either .

I’m a little uncomfortable doing this as others have had success using what I consider “ old school” methods . It sometimes takes a while to develope stuff like this but we oft had lengthy debates on mfg processes and fixes . I’m just doing the debate internally in my mind .

As for the boiler it’s slow as I have had just endless interruptions . Once again another interruption “ my het went off last night. It’s 55 deg in the house no help until late after noon . I have a portable heater I’ll move to the hobby room so I can continue rebuilding the short blocks. I think the super heater I proposed will work .
Question: if I have some volume of super heated steam say just in the “ dry stage” if I bleed this into an empty tank like an air tank carefully observing pressure of course and pressurize to say 225 psi. Well within limits of standard air tank. ? Will there be too much cooling thus condensation ? I could bleed the tank of course . I also have a very good ac vacuum pump so I could vacuum the tank first I YHINK it may be a test I’ll have to do at some point I really need to get the boiler done before getting into this I think .
I’m also dealing with my late sons estate so many phone calls .
another delay. I just checked my mc master parts that should have been “ bolt on” are all wrong. Not totally useless but now I have go through the order process again. I still have my notes I had used. I went over them line by line to make sure I had not made a mistake. They are right on the money. I even made
 
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Hi Byron,
I don't understand why you want to send the superheated steam into a receiver - which will cool the steam and may condense a bit. But remember the steam was generated at boiler pressure, so that (or below) is the temperature and pressure at which it will condense. Heavily lagged, you'll only get the condensate from heating the receiver... But why would you want such a high pressure of superheat? Seems excessive and likely to break the engine? - or at least blow gaskets? (designed for 50psi!).
Hope you get your domestic heating working.... I worry if the boiler turns out as reliable?
Cheers!
Ken
 

Bentwings

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I just received the first of the test couplings . It fit both the shaft and the eccentric exactly . I’ll try and set up a test later today . I tried to order 4 more but they are out of stock. So I did a little different thinking and ordered 4 more couplings if a different type that do the same thing . I should have them by the week end I hope. It hard to depend on Amazon for things like this. I’ve had problems with the order getting changed at check out and not getting what I ordered. It’s not hard to send things back but it takes time and I have to depend on someone else to take them to the return center. Ups will pick up but even that becomes issue. Just getting the return label . I save packaging until I’m sure things are ok so that helps.

Heat was fixed finally but it was a cold day . Spring isn’t here yet

I have the short blocks back together. Waiting for the new couplers now . I’ll install the one I have for testing today . I’ll try and get pictures later . . Looks like I’ll need a spacer the width of the eccentric hub. I have done brass hex nuts and brass round stock so nt hard to make.

Also ordered a 1/4 40 ME TAPERED IPE DIE so I can use some of the 1/4” brass pipe stock running the straight die over this does not make the perfect thread but it is usable . I can use Teflon tape if I need sealing

Byron
 

Bentwings

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I just received the first of the test couplings . It fit both the shaft and the eccentric exactly . I’ll try and set up a test later today . I tried to order 4 more but they are out of stock. So I did a little different thinking and ordered 4 more couplings if a different type that do the same thing . I should have them by the week end I hope. It hard to depend on Amazon for things like this. I’ve had problems with the order getting changed at check out and not getting what I ordered. It’s not hard to send things back but it takes time and I have to depend on someone else to take them to the return center. Ups will pick up but even that becomes issue. Just getting the return label . I save packaging until I’m sure things are ok so that helps.

Heat was fixed finally but it was a cold day . Spring isn’t here yet

I have the short blocks back together. Waiting for the new couplers now . I’ll install the one I have for testing today . I’ll try and get pictures later . . Looks like I’ll need a spacer the width of the eccentric hub. I have done brass hex nuts and brass round stock so nt hard to make.

Also ordered a 1/4 40 ME TAPERED IPE DIE so I can use some of the 1/4” brass pipe stock running the straight die over this does not make the perfect thread but it is usable . I can use Teflon tape if I need sealing

Byron
Based on success of this item I ordered flexible shaft couplings which are just a little shorter slightly larger OD but still fit . Our inflation is just crazy the cost of these since I first looked at them two weeks ago has nearly doubled . I YHINK this will be a good solution to locking the eccentric on position as well as making it adjustable as needed . I just looked at two other steamers that use the set screw method. I can’t really write it off as others are using it but I sure think there must be some scared crankshafts out there . As far as timing goes I haven’t seen any positive ways of doing this. I suppose you can looke at the ports in the valve chambers an more or less position the piston or slide valve but I don’t think it gets optimum position I’m thinking probably using som simple adjustable load and comparing pressure vs torque and maybe rpm could be used for best performance under certain conditions all are variables and I thought race cars had many variables . We aren’t even considering steam yet . Well we will see how this shakes out . I just want to get this system up and running.
 
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