Indicator Holders and Such...

[zeeprogrammer]

Mill off 0.010 off the wide sides and all the soldiers will be in perfect harmony,


Aint no sense in looking round, Zee's gonna mill your flat feet down, am I right or wrong . . .

You're right! Rof}

 

[vlmarshall]

Aint no sense in looking round, Zee's gonna mill your flat feet down, am I right or wrong . . .

Ha, I've called cadence, (to myself, quietly) while cranking long cuts on a Bridgeport with no power feed. ;D

 

[90LX_Notch]

This thread is starting to get a a rather strange "Twilight Zone" sense to it. :big:

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Time to do the bolts. I want to shave off 0.045 from either side leaving a head about 0.25 wide and .34 long.

Took a block of aluminum, drilled and tapped for 10-32 towards one end. (Thinking I'm smart and didn't want to put it in the center of the block.) Used the bandsaw to cut a slit down the length of the hole. (Thinking I'm smart and wanted to cut the longer side.) Set it up on the vise. (Thinking I'm smart and put a couple of shims on either side so the vise would force the slit to close...thus trapping the bolt. Used double sided tape.)

(Can you see where this is going yet? I bet not.)

Set up the mill to take off 0.045 from one side. (Thinking I'm smart and all I had to do was turn the screw 180 degree and do the same thing to the other side).

Here's the setup...

(Thinking I'm smart and could eyeball the bolts.)

Boots for the soldiers!

Then took each half joint and milled the slot for the bolt's head to sit in. (Thinking I'm smart and used the stop again.)

Here they are...just need the slits now. Bandsaw or slitting blade?

Do you see it? No wail from the basement...but a bit of a groan followed by...'you idiot...you 'dumb stupid...'. oh:

The bolts are 3/4" long. They need to be 1 1/4" Fooey.

Ah well..only need 4. If I'm lucky...the local hardware store might have some.
I probably didn't need to mill the slot in all eight either but that's okay.

In the meantime I can do the nuts. Steel 5/8" diameter. Knurled would be nice. Shoulders would be nice too. Well...we'll see.

Hm. Hardware store might still be open....

[EDIT: They weren't. Fooey again.]

 

[Foozer]

Time to do the bolts. I want to shave off 0.045 from either side leaving a head about 0.25 wide and .34 long.

Took a block of aluminum, drilled and tapped for 10-32 towards one end. (Thinking I'm smart and didn't want to put it in the center of the block.) Used the bandsaw to cut a slit down the length of the hole. (Thinking I'm smart and wanted to cut the longer side.) Set it up on the vise. (Thinking I'm smart and put a couple of shims on either side so the vise would force the slit to close...thus trapping the bolt. Used double sided tape.)

Worked Ok for you, block pinched down enough to keep the bolt from moving, good plan

Here they are...just need the slits now. Bandsaw or slitting blade?

slit saw, thinner gap, less chance of over torque

The bolts are 3/4" long. They need to be 1 1/4" Fooey.

I probably didn't need to mill the slot in all eight either but that's okay.

Now that you mention it

If you want to get fancy, see how much fun I can have with your labors

mill em down a bit more and bring the center lines closer, can even kill the slot altogether if you close tolerance one side of the hole, turn bolt down to snug fit and give it a bit of a knurl upon the mating surface. Press it in place and . . .
(ducking and running)

 

[zeeprogrammer]

I'm thinking a visit is in order...good thing you're way out there. :big: For my sake.

I think I understand what you mean about a 'knurl on the mating surface'...there's some bolts with integral nuts that have that I think. Doesn't seem much different than adding a star or lock washer though? But I don't know.

In any case...the 'fancy' has two issues for me...one is 'how much effort to put into such tool'? But more importantly...the two half joints can't swing 360 degrees. That would mean having to give some thought to the limitations before putting the things together. That brings me to my third issue... giving some thought. Well you've seen how good I am at that. :big:

It does look good though. (your pic).

As for 'duck and run'...yeah that's right...run...you don't want to see me bleed. My squeal can make the strongest man cry....in shame.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

I'm not liking this.
Drilled 3/8. Measured rod 3/8. Slit some of the half joints to 1/32.
Put rod in half joint. Using fingers, closed until end of half joint closed up.

Rod still moved.

Wish I'd been able to ream rather than drill. I think drilling makes the holes too big.
Maybe slit to 1/16 instead of 1/32?

Good grief...this is just a tool. (Important...because I'm learning...but good grief.)

Will continue tomorrow...right now I'm a quart low...

 

[Foozer]

I'm not liking this.
Drilled 3/8. Measured rod 3/8. Slit some of the half joints to 1/32.
Put rod in half joint. Using fingers, closed until end of half joint closed up.

Rod still moved.

Wish I'd been able to ream rather than drill. I think drilling makes the holes too big.
Maybe slit to 1/16 instead of 1/32?

Good grief...this is just a tool. (Important...because I'm learning...but good grief.)

Will continue tomorrow...right now I'm a quart low...

Yup! WAY to Much Fun

Going to need Marv's talents to give the answer as to how far the diameter of a hole reduces in relationship to it circumference. I know Pie is involved but only one I can find is a Key Lime with extra whipped cream,

Not so good at math but here's a shot

p*d=c
p= 3.14159
d= 0.375
c= 3.14159 * 0.375 = 1.17809
less slit width
-0.032 = 1.14609
new diameter
1.14609 / 3.14159 = 0.36481

So the hole would close up 0.01029 tad > ten thousands

measure hole, measure rod and have a double tequila

say hole is 0.385 then with a 0.063 slit the reduced size should be around 0.3648 about a 0.020 change.

Larger slit will increase the stress at the thin point of hole, snap or not? haven't a clue. Scratch to crack tho, plays into metal fatigue

Ok triple Tequila

Me safe with a 3000 mile distance

 

[mklotz]

Good grief...this is just a tool. (Important...because I'm learning...but good grief.)

Sacrilege! A tool is a far more important *project* than an engine. After the engine is done it will sit on a shelf untouched for most of the year, only to be taken down and demonstrated on rare occasions. A tool will be used frequently and, if self-made, provide satisfaction every time it is used. It will teach you about design because, every time you use it, you'll think about how it *should* have been designed.

Hone your design skills by *designing* the knobs (you called them nuts). They're pretty simple but there are still some design considerations you need to think about.

The part you grasp with your fingers should be wider than the width of the clamp so they're easy to grasp.

The part you grasp with your fingers should stand proud of the clamp surface so it can be grasped easily.

(Those two considerations dictate the shape and the dimensions.)

If you need to apply a lot of force with a knob, knurling isn't always the best solution. The knurls, even if flattened a bit with a file, can dig uncomfortably into the skin when torqued hard. I prefer flutes in such applications and they have the further advantage that they can be made even if you don't own a knurling tool.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Going to need Marv's talents to give the answer as to how far the diameter of a hole reduces in relationship to it circumference.

Even better...he'll have the program that, given the diameter of the rod, specifies the hole diameter and slit width. I should know better...I'm supposed to be an engineer. Not doing enough thinking or prep work...

Me safe with a 3000 mile distance

Think so? Think I don't have friends? ...don't answer that...I'll just get depressed.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Sacrilege! A tool is a far more important *project* than an engine.

I'm starting to learn your buttons. ;D

Oh yes...I understand how important the tool is. The 'project' can not be any better than the tool (or the knowledge of how to apply the tool) ...and that includes the tool (me) using the tool. Ah well...you know what I mean (and I'm no longer a quart low.)

Hone your design skills by *designing* the knobs (you called them nuts). They're pretty simple but there are still some design considerations you need to think about.

Been thinking quite a bit about it tonight. More about the process than anything else. Knurling seems to require a lot of pressure. So part should be held between head and tail stock. But at some point I have to part the knobs off. And the parting tool should be close to chuck...but then I'm clamping onto knurled area....so thinking about it.
[/quote]

The part you grasp with your fingers should be wider than the width of the clamp so they're easy to grasp.

The part you grasp with your fingers should stand proud of the clamp surface so it can be grasped easily.

Yes. That's why I specified 5/8" diameter. Is that not enough?

I prefer flutes in such applications...

Hm...googling that gets me some musical instruments...but I think I know what you mean. Essentially indents around the circumference? How?


Thanks Marv.

 

[vlmarshall]

Knurl a long piece of stock, then turn down the non-knob portion of a knob, drill & tap it, part it off, turn down another...

 

[vlmarshall]

But, Marv's right, knurls eat skin. :-\

 

[zeeprogrammer]

What I had been thinking...(we can argue 'thinking' another time)...

I need 4 knobs. (Really only 3 but I 'want' 4.)
Each knob is 1/4" to 3/8" max.
4 * 3/8 = 1 1/2".
Knurl the whole thing.
Drill the whole thing. (Don't know whether to tap now or tap each knob later...)
Place 'thick parting tool at 3/8 - half thickness of parting tool.
Move in about 1/4" (remember this is 5/8" diameter stock.
Use a triangular file or such to knock down the knurl on the edge.
Use a 'thin' parting tool to part all the way.
That would give a slight shoulder to the knob.
Repeat.
Maybe do the tap now.
So I thought that would be a decent knob.
But then people are saying knurls eat skin.
Sand it down?
Or...wait until someone 'splains' what flutes are.
As for knurling...could be diamond...but could also be thick parallel...would that be flute-like?

 

[vlmarshall]

Flutes, like on a reamer, or big gear teeth.... Hmmm, cutting tools or "teeth"... trust us, these are better for gripping... no, really, try it. ;D

 

[Foozer]

What I had been thinking...(we can argue 'thinking' another time)...


But then people are saying knurls eat skin.
Sand it down?
Or...wait until someone 'splains' what flutes are.
As for knurling...could be diamond...but could also be thick parallel...would that be flute-like?

One way to get the flutes, knurl eats skin, well way for me, long hard road. Turn the knob material to required diameter (5/8), turn another piece to dia plus 1/2 inch ah, easy way ball end mill say 5/16 dia. Stock on RT and every 45 degrees mill a rounded bottom slot around the circumference. Give you grip without tearing the skin off fingers. Something like the pic

 

[vlmarshall]

Yeah, Foozer, like that... just like all those tiny valve wheels I've seen on here... I guess I'll be doing the same thing soon.

 

[DavesWimshurst]

Carl,
A couple of points on just drilling a hole for your clamps. not only can drilled holes be over sized they can be out of round and even bigger at one end than the other. This is not so good for the clamping action you want.

Reaming is best but if you don't have the proper sized reamer for the job drilling a couple of sizes under and finishing with the proper size correctly sharpened drill can give a better result. Practice on some spare material because sometimes a drill can chatter at the start of the hole.
This is not to be done in brass unless drill is sharpened for brass, an ordinary drill can grab:

Brass drill grind

Your knurled nuts will have better tightening power for the same diameter if you use a finer pitch thread. The pressure on the part (and the lathe) when knurling is eased with a straddle type tool:

Knurled parts may eat skin but that's what toughens you up! :
Dave

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Robert and Foozer: Thanks, that's what I thought flutes are. Seems like quite a job just for 3 or 4 knobs.

What do you think of the brass nut on this QCTP?

Originally I was thinking of a shoulder on both sides...but this seems simpler (but just doing a simple shoulder, not like in the pic)...

Dave: Yeah, originally I wanted to ream but there wasn't enough room to get the reamer in unless I wanted to move the table out of the way or shorten the reamer. Probably should have figured out a way. Thanks.

 

[vlmarshall]

That's the nut I was imagining. Do you have collets? a rotary table? an indexer? collet blocks? Just trying to help ya make flutes.

I guess you could always MAKE a quick-and-dirty index plate and holder, and plunge cut Foozer's eight flutes with an endmill.