Building one of Rudy's steamers

[Deanofid]

Arnold, thanks again for looking in. I appreciate your keeping track of the thread!

Steve, Thanks! Like you and Arnold note well, I do seem to find some slightly out-sized projects for this little lathe. The physical dimensions of the Taig lathe belie it's upper capacity, though when turning things like this, it does eat up a bit of time. It certainly is a rigid little thing, and the spindle is just plain tough.


Starting work on the fly wheel spokes.

For the spokes, I started out with a couple of pieces of 4" x 4"x 1/8" CRS and cut the corners off to get rid of
what waste I could. I drew a copy of the pattern to help with locating mounting holes that would be used
for machining, but would later be cut away as waste. Mainly, I want to make sure I don't put a hole in the
middle of what will become a spoke.

A couple of punch marks are made through the paper template for holes to mount the pieces to a face plate.

I also put a punch mark in what would become the approximate center of the spoke piece so I could eyeball a
location through the back side of the face plate. The center is not critical at this point, but will help getting
things somewhat centered to start with. Then the both pieces are tightened down.

The corners are cut off and the pieces brought to size using the old Craftsman. I used the Craftsman for
this step because it is a little bigger than the Taig, and I could get a cutter pointing straight into the interrupted
cut that the corners of the steel plates present to the tool bit.

Then it's center drilled and drilled through 3/8". After this step the piece is put back in the other lathe. I made
a spindle nose for the Craftsman so it will take the chucks from my Taig lathe. That way I can transfer work
back and forth between them without having to do any additional setup. Just take the chuck with the work
in it from one lathe and slap it on the other and everything remains centered up.

The hole in the plates is then bored out to take the hub that will hold the spokes to the crankshaft.

For the next step, I need to spot the holes in the fly wheel plates. The holes will form the bottom of the
spokes where they come to the center of the fly wheel.

I made this auxiliary spindle a few years ago, just for doing this kind of thing. It has a center hole in the chuck
shaft, so it's easy to get it centered, which is what is being done in the picture above.

Here's my setup for drilling the spoke bottoms. The aux spindle is cranked over to give the radius needed for
the spoke holes. There will be six of them, and they are indexed using the head stock plate. The DI is used
so I don't drill clear through the spoke plates and into my face plate.

After all the holes are spotted they are drilled through 3/8".

This shot should give an idea of what the finished fly wheel will look like, if I don't screw up too badly.

Here is today's progress shot. Photo credit to Rudy Kouhoupt.
Next, some head scratchin' to work up a pin plate jig for cutting the spokes. Rudy did it with a hacksaw. I actually
do get nice curvy lines when using a hacksaw. I never know which way they are going to go, though.. I may
have better luck using an RT.

Dean

 

[Artie]

Hi Dean, I have a basic idea in my head and Im going to try to explain it (badly...of course..). This is relevant for mill use, im not sure how this could be utilised elsewhere.

Firslty, IF the curvatur of the spoke is linear (constant curve, not compound), continue it on till it completes the full circle.. the centre of this circle is your jig pivot point make and attach the jig to this point, it will be used to move back and forth to cut the curvatur of the spoke. The flywheel (minus the outter ring) itself pivots on its own hub to move from spoke to spoke, this will need some form, of simple indexing (RT I expect).

Of course you will need to do this twice to cut each side of the spoke as these will have slightly different pivot point for the jig IF they are in any way tapered.

Sorry this lacks detail, it just came to me in a flash while I was reading your post...

Good luck

 

[Artie]

By the way.. I vote we adopt the M n M as the international measurement of 'scale'.... works for me!!

 

[mklotz]

If you're cutting curved spokes, you may want to look at Steve's interpretation of Philip Duclos' method...

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=3169.msg30253#msg30253

 

[Deanofid]

Thanks for the comments, Artie. I think you picked up on the idea of a pin plate jig that I mentioned. I've used them before on larger RTs, but have to make one to fit the little 4" RT I have in my shop.

The jig is just a plate with a couple of pins in it to locate each radius in turn, and they key on holes already drilled in the plates. The only part that might seem tricky, until you see it, is locating the origin of the radius for the spokes. It falls on a point that cannot be jigged easily, since it is inside an adjacent spoke. It can be located by a pin prick though, or off the CL of the hub bore, and once under the spindle, (along with the center of the RT), the outside of the radius, plus tool diameter, can be found via coordinates on the mill.
I'll try to document it well. Seeing is easier than reading about it, usually.

Dean

 

[Artie]

Thank you Merv, thats exactly what I was visualising... good call.

 

[mklotz]

Merv?

 

[Artie]

Merv?

oops.... fat fingered..my apologies MARV.... :-X

 

[Deanofid]

Marv, that's the method I had in mind when I wrote about a pin plate jig.
I was a big fan of Phil Duclos' articles in the good ol' days of HSM. I have his article on spokes here somewhere. Phil and Rudy were the main reasons I bought HSM back then. They were full of it, and by "it" I mean really good stuff!

Thanks for the link.

Dean

 

[Deanofid]

Hi all;

Some more done today. Made up the jig pin plate and got to work on the spokes.

This jig will position the origin of the radius that forms the spokes for the fly wheels. It also holds the work piece
up off the surface of my rotary table so I don't mill into it. I started with a 1/2" thick piece of aluminum. The
main reason for it being so thick is to hold the jig pins steady. If something thinner was used, like 1/4", the pins
might have a tendency to wobble. First step is to drill and ream a hole for a different pin that will align the jig to
the center of the RT.

The same pin fits snug in the center of the RT.
At this point I set the RT to zero and tightened the table clamps.

Then two holes are drilled and counter bored for hold down screws. The screws can't stick up above the surface
of the jig, another reason to use thick material.

The RT is mounted to the milling machine and the jig plate is mounted on the RT. With the jig plate screws tight,
the RT is adjusted on the mill table to get the edge of the jig dialed in. This is for future reference.

Then the center of the RT is found with a ground pin in the spindle. The X and Y movements are used until
the pin will slip into the hole through the plate in into the RT.

For the first jig pin hole, the X and Y tables are cranked over to where the center of the fly wheel will be,
(eventually). The convenient point to start for the origin of the radius of the spokes is the center line of the RT.
From there, I can back track to the location of the center of what will be the fly wheel using the X and Y
movements of the milling machine. That's where I am in the shot above, and that point is spotted with a center
drill. The other pin will be on the center line of the hole circle that was drilled in the spoke pieces earlier, and it is
located right off the spot just drilled.

After those two holes are spotted, they are drilled and reamed to 3/8".

The next step is to turn up a couple of pins that will locate the plates to cut the spokes. One is made to fit the
center hole of the plates, and the other is made to fit the six holes drilled in the plates that will form the bottom of
the spokes. The pins need to be a close fit in the jig plate, so they don't wobble. They won't be taking a lot of
pressure, but they have to remain steady as the spoke piece is changed from one cut to the next. They could be
pressed in, but then I won't be able to use this plate for any other jig jobs, so I just made them a nice close fit.

These are the pins all turned up and ready to go.

The pins go in the jig plate and the work piece fits over them.
Just one more thing to do on the jig plate. A couple of holes are drilled and tapped for screws that will hold down
the work piece.

Finally, the jig plate is mounted on the RT again, and again oriented to the center line of the RT with the ground
pin. After the jig plate and the RT are lined up, the ground pin is left in the center of the RT and the back edge of
the jig plate is dialed in and the jig plate tightened down to the RT. Then the ground pin is removed.

Finally, the spoke piece is set over the pins and fastened down. Just to make sure I hadn't goofed up, (it happens all the time!) I blued a section of the work piece and scored it with a stylus to see that things went where I expected. Looks about right. The start of the cut is dialed straight off the center position of the RT, over to the edge of either of the two adjacent holes.

When an end mill is put in the spindle, the position will be found the same way, minus half the diameter of the end
mill, or plus half that same diameter, depending on which side of the spoke is being cut.

First cut. Nothing broke. Nothing looks too goofy. So I'll continue.

The first cut starting on the second set of holes and the waste falls away forming the first spoke.

You have to remember to come back to "home base" at the end of each cut, and don't go past it or you'll start to
cut the other side of the hole, in toward the center of the fly wheel.

When the last piece falls out.. Spokes. One down, one to go.

You can see little bumps where I played chicken with the end mill. The end mill won. I was chicken to get too
close to the edge of the starting holes. I'd rather play the "file a while" game than re-cut this entire piece. I
have the same chicken instincts whether doing things like these spokes or cutting out clock wheels. File a while.

It should look something like this when it's soldered up. Looks like quite a bit of filing to do, really.

That's it for now.

Dean

 

[Twmaster]

Um. Wow. :bow: :bow:

I could not understand the 'how' of this reading the back and forth between you and Marv. As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Bravo Dean.

 

[arnoldb]

Very well done & demonstrated Dean Thm:

Regards, Arnold

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Okay. Tan M&M or not....very impressive (not that I'm anyone to impress).
Excellent post.
Thanks for the great detail.

 

[Bill Mc]

Hi Deanofid - I like your Craftsman lathe that I see in your photos. What model is it? Is it an older lathe? - Thanks - Billmc

 

[Deanofid]

Hi all;

Mike, Arnold, and Zee, thanks much for the kind words! It's nice to hear your comments.

Bill, it's a Craftsman 109-20630. This model is about 60 years old, and they are commonly referred to as a Craftsman AA or 109 lathe. If you'd like to know a little more about it, go to my web page an scroll down to the bottom of the page. Click on the picture of the lathe.
http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html
Also, http://www.lathes.co.uk/ has a good section on them.


I had a little time in the shop, but spent most of the day doing the "earn-a-living" thing.

Not a lot done. Just cut the second set of spokes and started work on the second fly wheel rim.

I began this rim on the old Craftsman, since it will rough out a piece a little faster than the Taig, but it will
still end up on the Taig, which will do a nicer finish.

Dean

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Not a lot done he says. I managed to square up a rectangular bit of aluminum last night. Or I think I did. That is...I think it's rectangular.

 

[Twmaster]

Zee:

got a good square? That should tell you the scoop.

Dean:

Nice to see the old #109 in action... I really need to get those gibs made for mine. That and that saddle retainer is about all the hard stuff left.

 

[Deanofid]

Hi Zee;
"Not a lot done" usually means I took a long time to go a short distance! It takes a while cutting big round things on little lathes. Sometimes I plan a day out and think I'll get so much done, and then, when shop time comes to an end, I feel like I've been whacking away at the same hunk of iron all day.

Mike, hope you get your AA up and going soon. You can make the gibs from flat brass stock. You just need to knock the corners off with a file. The carriage gib takes a little more work, but if you make it from brass it will go pretty fast.


Again, not a lot done today. Some days are like that.
Still pecking away at these fly wheels. After looking at them for a while, I decided the rims were too wide, so I
put them both back in the lathe and took another 1/8" off. Then went on to the next widget.

The fly wheel hubs are a simple turning job.

And that's done.

Here are the fit ups for the complete fly wheels. Soldering next, and then they will be trued in the lathe.
I'm ready to move on to another part. Enough fly wheel stuff for now!

Dean

 

[Twmaster]

Mike, hope you get your AA up and going soon. You can make the gibs from flat brass stock. You just need to knock the corners off with a file. The carriage gib takes a little more work, but if you make it from brass it will go pretty fast.

Dean,

Again I cannot tell you how amazing that work looks.

I'm off work tomorrow and will be tramming my mill up and then making a 60 degree gib cutting fixture. Just an FYI, I got my gauge out and the dovetails on the cross slide and compound on the 109 are 60 deg. I'll be using that fixture for other things so it's worth it to for me to have it in my box of tricks.

I got my brass stock for the gibs in yesterday. I'm awaiting the stock for the carriage gib. I've been scrubbing the ways and other parts on the old 109 getting ready for re-assembly.

Oops. Sorry. did not mean to wander off topic.

 

[Deanofid]

Oops. Sorry. did not mean to wander off topic.

Heck, that's alright Mike. The 109 is part of this project anyway. I made about half a mile of chips with it today re-working the silly fly wheels.
Thank you for the comments!

Dean