Building one of Rudy's steamers
- Thread starter Deanofid
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
Twmaster
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
- Messages
- 917
- Reaction score
- 3
The green M&M's are the 'special' ones. At least for me! :big:
Dean, like all the other projects I've seen you do this is simply magnificent. I recently found this forum and am looking to build a couple steamers.
I'll be following this thread.
Dean, like all the other projects I've seen you do this is simply magnificent. I recently found this forum and am looking to build a couple steamers.
I'll be following this thread.
Twmaster said:
Hi Mike! Nice to bump into you here. Thanks for the kind words!
All M&M's are special, to me. My favorite candy!
Any particular engines in mind yet?
Hi Phil;
I don't know of any reason from an engineering standpoint. They could be simple round bushings if that's what a person wanted to use. I'm (mostly) following Rudy's prints on this one, and that's just the way he did it. It's nice to go "by the book" now and then", though using round bearings would have had me done with the entire bearing assembly in half the time.
Thanks a lot for looking in!
Dean
Twmaster
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
- Messages
- 917
- Reaction score
- 3
Dean,
Don't thank me. Your projects are an inspiration to me. Before I get about building any engines I need to get a working lathe in the shop. I'm awaiting some brass to finish making parts for my little Craftsman 109. I'm also awaiting a tooling plate for my mill so I can replicate the carriage gibs on my Rivett #8 and 608.
Then I will set about making a couple of steamers. When I was a much younger child I had a Jensen #60 motor with boiler. It was a wobbler. I'd like to replicate that (in spirit, not exactly). I'm also fond of the Stirling's and the beam engines.
Wish I could play, er, I mean, work in my shop all day... ;D
Don't thank me. Your projects are an inspiration to me. Before I get about building any engines I need to get a working lathe in the shop. I'm awaiting some brass to finish making parts for my little Craftsman 109. I'm also awaiting a tooling plate for my mill so I can replicate the carriage gibs on my Rivett #8 and 608.
Then I will set about making a couple of steamers. When I was a much younger child I had a Jensen #60 motor with boiler. It was a wobbler. I'd like to replicate that (in spirit, not exactly). I'm also fond of the Stirling's and the beam engines.
Wish I could play, er, I mean, work in my shop all day... ;D
Mike, I'll bet people here would like to see your Rivett lathes when you get them fixed up!
Brian, thanks again for checking in on the build!
Today the crank pin and crank journal got done.
The crank pin is .312" dia, and was turned from 3/8" drill rod. (Who buys 5/16" drill rod? I guess I should).
Then it is parted off a tad long, and faced to length. I see my parting tool is a little high, here.
For the crank journal I used 1/2" drill rod. It has two diameters, one of .437" in the middle that fits into the large holes of the crank throws, and diameters of .375" on either side that fit into the main bearings and through the fly wheels.
I turned this piece between centers to make sure I got a shaft that was concentric on each end. The shot above shows how the steady rest is set up. It's run up near the chuck, tightened to the lathe bed, and the fingers are adjusted to the shaft.
Then the steady rest is run down the shaft and tightened to the bed near the end of the shaft so the end can be faced off and center drilled to take a dead or live center. After one end is done, the same is done for the other.
Since the diameter of the piece has to be reduced by over .060", and it will flex right about the middle where the shorter, but larger diameter sits, I used a follow rest while bringing it down to the first diameter.
In the picture above, I've put the follow rest in the wrong T-slot of the cross slide. I changed it before I started cutting. The closer it is in line with the tool bit, the better.
After I had the larger diameter turned to size, I changed the larger dead center for a live center, and removed the follow rest. (The follow rest can't be used so well when you have to cut up to a shoulder.)
When the smaller diameter on this end had been turned to size, the piece is flipped end for end and put back between centers to cut the other end. If you use centers for turning something like this, you can swap ends on it over and over and know it will always go right back to the centerline of the lathe spindle, (as long as you have your tail stock dialed-in to the head stock!).
That's the whole afternoon's work. Not much! Just a little everyday.
I left the crank shaft long. I want to put a pulley on one end, or maybe both, so I can belt the engine to make it "do something". I'll cut the ends to length when I figure out how long I want them.
Progress shot.
Next, maybe get the crankshaft soldered up and bore the engine bearings.
Dean
Brian, thanks again for checking in on the build!
Today the crank pin and crank journal got done.
The crank pin is .312" dia, and was turned from 3/8" drill rod. (Who buys 5/16" drill rod? I guess I should).
Then it is parted off a tad long, and faced to length. I see my parting tool is a little high, here.
For the crank journal I used 1/2" drill rod. It has two diameters, one of .437" in the middle that fits into the large holes of the crank throws, and diameters of .375" on either side that fit into the main bearings and through the fly wheels.
I turned this piece between centers to make sure I got a shaft that was concentric on each end. The shot above shows how the steady rest is set up. It's run up near the chuck, tightened to the lathe bed, and the fingers are adjusted to the shaft.
Then the steady rest is run down the shaft and tightened to the bed near the end of the shaft so the end can be faced off and center drilled to take a dead or live center. After one end is done, the same is done for the other.
Since the diameter of the piece has to be reduced by over .060", and it will flex right about the middle where the shorter, but larger diameter sits, I used a follow rest while bringing it down to the first diameter.
In the picture above, I've put the follow rest in the wrong T-slot of the cross slide. I changed it before I started cutting. The closer it is in line with the tool bit, the better.
After I had the larger diameter turned to size, I changed the larger dead center for a live center, and removed the follow rest. (The follow rest can't be used so well when you have to cut up to a shoulder.)
When the smaller diameter on this end had been turned to size, the piece is flipped end for end and put back between centers to cut the other end. If you use centers for turning something like this, you can swap ends on it over and over and know it will always go right back to the centerline of the lathe spindle, (as long as you have your tail stock dialed-in to the head stock!).
That's the whole afternoon's work. Not much! Just a little everyday.
I left the crank shaft long. I want to put a pulley on one end, or maybe both, so I can belt the engine to make it "do something". I'll cut the ends to length when I figure out how long I want them.
Progress shot.
Next, maybe get the crankshaft soldered up and bore the engine bearings.
Dean
Next step I'll bore the bearings.
I want to make sure the bearings are bored true, so I'll do them in place on the engine base.
The base is packed up on the lathe cross slide so the center line of the crank shaft holes in
the bearings are in line with the lathe spindle.
The hole position has been laid out on one of the bearing blocks, and center punched.
Then a prick punch is put in a collet in the lathe and the assembly is then packed up so
the prick punch goes into the punch mark. At this point, the screws that hold the base
haven't been tightened. Just snugged a little.
When I'm sure the piece is the right height it is squared to a face plate. Then the hold
down screws are tightened good 'n tight.
After adjusting the piece back and forth with the cross slide dial to make sure the
prick punch is dead center, the bearing block is spot drilled and checked for position.
If you drill a small center spot like this, you can pretty well see if you got the right
spot by eye. Your eye will naturally want to center up the "X" layout lines and the
spot. If it looks like it's off, it probably is. (If it were off, I could turn the
bearing block around and start over.) Thing is, you can pretty well tell when the
prick punch goes into the bottom of the punch mark when you are setting up, so it's a
fairly reliable method when working to layout lines. If you make your layout lines deep
enough, you don't even need to punch things like this. As long as the point on the
prick punch is sharp, you can actually feel it as it drops into one line, then the other.
With everything square, centered, and otherwise copacetic, the bearing blocks are drilled
right through, first with a small bit, then one just under the final bore, and then
reamed as in the picture above. This will make a nice straight bore for the crankshaft.
You can achieve an even better bore by align boring (some folks call it line boring),
but for this engine, reaming will do very well, especially in brass.
Now the crankshaft is tried to see if it's a good running fit, and to check for any
problems. The crankshaft hasn't yet been soldered, and I'm checking this first so if
there is a problem after soldering it up, I'll know it isn't the bearings that are causing
the trouble. Saves time if I have to trouble shoot things later.
Crankshaft soldering;
This is the result of the first soldering step. The large rings of solder that can
be seen on the top left surface and the bottom right one are what came through the joint
when soldering from the other side. Looks like the solder flowed fine. In the shot
above, the piece has been turned over and is ready for the second go-round, and you can
see that the second two bevels, (top right one and bottom left), haven't yet been done.
I didn't use hard solder for this fit up. The brand used here is Harris Stay Brite,
and though the container it came in says it's silver solder, it's not the type that can be
used for high pressure boilers. It says it contains no lead or cadmium, so I would guess
it's mostly zinc with a dab of silver put in to make it flow. Works fine for small fit ups
that aren't going into high stress places. Probably not what you want for soldering up a
crank for an I.C. engine, but for parts on small steamers that are not actually under steam
pressure, (i.e. boilers & fittings), it works well.
Harris also sells a good "real" silver solder in the USA. Google them if you need the good
45% silver stuff.
When the crank has cooled down, and after taking a toothbrush to it in some hot soapy water,
it's chucked up again and a live center put in the center hole in the end of the shaft. Then
the outside faces of the crank throw are cleaned up, along with the excess rings of solder
left from the soldering process. Same is done for the other side.
Last thing in the lathe is to make the radius on the crank throw off set. Forgot to take a
picture of that, but it just involved taking light cuts with the lathe turning fairly slow so
it didn't take the tip off the tool from the interrupted cut.
Then the crank is put into the milling machine and the center is cut out of the larger shaft.
This is the time to think twice and cut once, for sure! I vaguely remember cutting the
wrong shaft out from between the throws in the past. It was just as easy as cutting the
correct one...
So there it is. Close to being done. Obviously needs a little finish work, and there
are a few places on the crank pin that solder has built up that will have to be removed.
Progress so far, with a hint of a little more done in the back ground. That's for
another post.
Dean
I want to make sure the bearings are bored true, so I'll do them in place on the engine base.
The base is packed up on the lathe cross slide so the center line of the crank shaft holes in
the bearings are in line with the lathe spindle.
The hole position has been laid out on one of the bearing blocks, and center punched.
Then a prick punch is put in a collet in the lathe and the assembly is then packed up so
the prick punch goes into the punch mark. At this point, the screws that hold the base
haven't been tightened. Just snugged a little.
When I'm sure the piece is the right height it is squared to a face plate. Then the hold
down screws are tightened good 'n tight.
After adjusting the piece back and forth with the cross slide dial to make sure the
prick punch is dead center, the bearing block is spot drilled and checked for position.
If you drill a small center spot like this, you can pretty well see if you got the right
spot by eye. Your eye will naturally want to center up the "X" layout lines and the
spot. If it looks like it's off, it probably is. (If it were off, I could turn the
bearing block around and start over.) Thing is, you can pretty well tell when the
prick punch goes into the bottom of the punch mark when you are setting up, so it's a
fairly reliable method when working to layout lines. If you make your layout lines deep
enough, you don't even need to punch things like this. As long as the point on the
prick punch is sharp, you can actually feel it as it drops into one line, then the other.
With everything square, centered, and otherwise copacetic, the bearing blocks are drilled
right through, first with a small bit, then one just under the final bore, and then
reamed as in the picture above. This will make a nice straight bore for the crankshaft.
You can achieve an even better bore by align boring (some folks call it line boring),
but for this engine, reaming will do very well, especially in brass.
Now the crankshaft is tried to see if it's a good running fit, and to check for any
problems. The crankshaft hasn't yet been soldered, and I'm checking this first so if
there is a problem after soldering it up, I'll know it isn't the bearings that are causing
the trouble. Saves time if I have to trouble shoot things later.
Crankshaft soldering;
This is the result of the first soldering step. The large rings of solder that can
be seen on the top left surface and the bottom right one are what came through the joint
when soldering from the other side. Looks like the solder flowed fine. In the shot
above, the piece has been turned over and is ready for the second go-round, and you can
see that the second two bevels, (top right one and bottom left), haven't yet been done.
I didn't use hard solder for this fit up. The brand used here is Harris Stay Brite,
and though the container it came in says it's silver solder, it's not the type that can be
used for high pressure boilers. It says it contains no lead or cadmium, so I would guess
it's mostly zinc with a dab of silver put in to make it flow. Works fine for small fit ups
that aren't going into high stress places. Probably not what you want for soldering up a
crank for an I.C. engine, but for parts on small steamers that are not actually under steam
pressure, (i.e. boilers & fittings), it works well.
Harris also sells a good "real" silver solder in the USA. Google them if you need the good
45% silver stuff.
When the crank has cooled down, and after taking a toothbrush to it in some hot soapy water,
it's chucked up again and a live center put in the center hole in the end of the shaft. Then
the outside faces of the crank throw are cleaned up, along with the excess rings of solder
left from the soldering process. Same is done for the other side.
Last thing in the lathe is to make the radius on the crank throw off set. Forgot to take a
picture of that, but it just involved taking light cuts with the lathe turning fairly slow so
it didn't take the tip off the tool from the interrupted cut.
Then the crank is put into the milling machine and the center is cut out of the larger shaft.
This is the time to think twice and cut once, for sure! I vaguely remember cutting the
wrong shaft out from between the throws in the past. It was just as easy as cutting the
correct one...
So there it is. Close to being done. Obviously needs a little finish work, and there
are a few places on the crank pin that solder has built up that will have to be removed.
Progress so far, with a hint of a little more done in the back ground. That's for
another post.
Dean
Twmaster
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
- Messages
- 917
- Reaction score
- 3
Once again that's really great looking work.
First a tip, then a question...
That silver solder can be found in most any good hobby shop. Dunno about the DIY stores.
I myself have never soldered with silver solder. Can you offer any tips for it's use? Other than the obvious tips like making sure all is clean and fits well.
First a tip, then a question...
That silver solder can be found in most any good hobby shop. Dunno about the DIY stores.
I myself have never soldered with silver solder. Can you offer any tips for it's use? Other than the obvious tips like making sure all is clean and fits well.
zeeprogrammer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 3,362
- Reaction score
- 13
I echo the sentiments. Great thread and excellent tips.
I still want to see a tan M&M though.
I still want to see a tan M&M though.
Paul, Mike, Rob, and Zee; Thanks much for your comments, and for checking up on the build.
Mike, the solder I used on the crank is actually better named "silver bearing solder". It's done the same as other soft solder, but it will work on steel easier. I clean everything in naphtha then fit it up, put on a little flux and heat it with a propane torch. when flux starts to bubble, keep trying the solder until it starts to flow. This solder melts at about 450 f.
"Real" silver solder takes a lot more heat. You need to make a hearth made out of a few fire bricks to hold the heat from a propane torch, because they don't have much to spare. Most real silver solder, or hard solder, melts at above 1000 f. Some of it is picky about the flux, and if you go to the Harris web site, you can find what flux to use for which solder.
Zee, I'll see if I can find a spray paint can... You knew exactly how big things were by the size of the coin though, right?
Thx,
Dean
Mike, the solder I used on the crank is actually better named "silver bearing solder". It's done the same as other soft solder, but it will work on steel easier. I clean everything in naphtha then fit it up, put on a little flux and heat it with a propane torch. when flux starts to bubble, keep trying the solder until it starts to flow. This solder melts at about 450 f.
"Real" silver solder takes a lot more heat. You need to make a hearth made out of a few fire bricks to hold the heat from a propane torch, because they don't have much to spare. Most real silver solder, or hard solder, melts at above 1000 f. Some of it is picky about the flux, and if you go to the Harris web site, you can find what flux to use for which solder.
Zee, I'll see if I can find a spray paint can... You knew exactly how big things were by the size of the coin though, right?
Thx,
Dean
zeeprogrammer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2009
- Messages
- 3,362
- Reaction score
- 13
Deanofid said:
Yeah! Well...no! But your question made me go back and realize it's true size. It hadn't hit me till then. Nice!
As for faking the tan M&Ms...I used to work for the company...don't forget the 'm'.
[EDIT: Rats. Just saw Arnold's post. He thought of it. Still...it's just not right to mess with chocolate. Not right at all.
]Arnold, thanks for checking in again, and for the tips on how to fool Zee with the M&M's.
Uh, Hi Zee! Please disregard that first sentence.
The coin is (I think), 10 Yen. Near the size of a quarter, smaller than a sycamore seed ball, bigger than an M&M. Maybe I should just say the crank shaft is 3/8" diameter?
Fly wheel rim;
There are two of these things needed, and I started on the first one while the crankshaft was cooling off after soldering it.
I started with a piece of 4 1/4" diameter .25" wall DOM tubing that had been cut one inch long. I want to
get them down to about 5/8" thick, so it will take a while on my little lathe. Starting by mounting one piece
up in the four jaw chuck, and dialing it in within a few thou, I faced off the end and then got busy cleaning
up the outside. My lathe cross slide won't go under the piece, so I turned the tool post sideways and
put a left hand cutter in it to cut the diameter of the piece. I just needed to get under the skin a few
thousandths to round it up nice. The skin on this stuff is a little tough, probably from being worked over a
mandrel during manufacture. The first few cuts came out a little jagged. After I got into it a bit, it cleaned up nicely.
Next, a few passes on the inside using a boring bar, doing the same thing I did for the OD.
Then take it out of the chuck and mount up the finished end and dial it in. After that,
cut, cut, cut, until I got it down to a usable rim thickness. (A little more has to come off later.)
This may not look like much being done for the folks with full sized lathes, but it takes
a while for us guys with miniature machines. Like turning a 8.5" diameter work piece on
a 9" South Bend. It's all relative, all fun.
One down, one to go. Then I have to do something about the spokes.
Dean
Uh, Hi Zee! Please disregard that first sentence.
The coin is (I think), 10 Yen. Near the size of a quarter, smaller than a sycamore seed ball, bigger than an M&M. Maybe I should just say the crank shaft is 3/8" diameter?
Fly wheel rim;
There are two of these things needed, and I started on the first one while the crankshaft was cooling off after soldering it.
I started with a piece of 4 1/4" diameter .25" wall DOM tubing that had been cut one inch long. I want to
get them down to about 5/8" thick, so it will take a while on my little lathe. Starting by mounting one piece
up in the four jaw chuck, and dialing it in within a few thou, I faced off the end and then got busy cleaning
up the outside. My lathe cross slide won't go under the piece, so I turned the tool post sideways and
put a left hand cutter in it to cut the diameter of the piece. I just needed to get under the skin a few
thousandths to round it up nice. The skin on this stuff is a little tough, probably from being worked over a
mandrel during manufacture. The first few cuts came out a little jagged. After I got into it a bit, it cleaned up nicely.
Next, a few passes on the inside using a boring bar, doing the same thing I did for the OD.
Then take it out of the chuck and mount up the finished end and dial it in. After that,
cut, cut, cut, until I got it down to a usable rim thickness. (A little more has to come off later.)
This may not look like much being done for the folks with full sized lathes, but it takes
a while for us guys with miniature machines. Like turning a 8.5" diameter work piece on
a 9" South Bend. It's all relative, all fun.
One down, one to go. Then I have to do something about the spokes.
Dean
Well done Dean, I know you are one for pushing the limits on the Taig Lathe. For those of you that haven't done so, check out the 4" rotary table Dean built awhile ago.
http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/rotary/rotary1.html
Always a great write-up and plenty of good tips on how to do things throughout.
Steve C.
http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/mill/rotary/rotary1.html
Always a great write-up and plenty of good tips on how to do things throughout.
Steve C.
Similar threads
Latest posts
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Stuart S50 - Replacing mild steel shafts with stainless steel shafts.- Latest: Jens Eirik Skogstad
