tap wrenches

[zeeprogrammer]

At the risk of someone slapping my forehead and saying 'make one'...I'm hoping to spend more time building an engine rather than every tool I need.

Anyway...I'm looking for a tap wrench I can use in my lathe or mill to ensure the threading stays true. Looking at the catalogs or on-line is not clear. I see references to 'to be turned by hand'. I think those are not the ones I'm looking for.

I also see ...'for drill presses or lathes'. Is that what I want? Or 'can also be used with drills, reamers, etc.'

I think the 0 to 1/4" range is what I'm looking for.

Suggestions? Under $15 preferred. Over $50 becomes a project. Anything in-between may cause waffling.

Thanks.

 

[vlmarshall]

Starret tap wrenches, and a spring center. Hang on a second and I'll get you a link for the spring center. ;D

 

[vlmarshall]

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDF...495546&PMITEM=82444050&PMCTLG=00&PMT4TP=*LTIP

Spring tap guide. a Must-have!

Edit: Well, a must-have with good tap wrenches. the Starrets are tough, they hold taps straight and true, and have a center drilled in the back of the handle for guiding with a spring-loaded guide in a toolholder or drill chuck in a mill, or tailstock chuck in a lathe.
Get them, you won't be sorry.

 

[Maryak]

Zee,

Most good quality taps have a centre hole in the end which can be used direct with the tailstock centre. For those without I would recommend the Stuart "T" Handle type of tapping wrench, which have a centre hole in the back of the wrench body again for use with the tailstock centre.

I'm lucky as my tailstock dead centre also fits my mill spindle, but it is easy enough to make a centre for the drill chuck/mill which will enable accurate alignment in the mill.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards
Bob

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Bob,

That's what I'm thinking but I'm trying to ensure the center hole is there. None of the pictures show that part of the wrench. And the descriptions (turned by hand) seem to imply there's not. While others seem to imply otherwise.

Vernon: Looks good. I've PM'd you about a couple of questions - about handles and sizes.

Thanks.

 

[mklotz]

Almost anything will work on the lathe because you have essentially unlimited 'headroom' there, at least in the case of small engine parts.

The real question you need to ask yourself is whether you will be able to use what you buy on *your* mill.

If your mill has adequate headroom then you can use Vernon's/Bob's suggestions or buy a tap wrench with an integral guide...

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=17739616&PMT4NO=66495892

If you have limited headroom...well, I've already pointed you to my solutions for that situation but you don't want to make tools.

If you buy a tap wrench and it doesn't have a guide hole, give it one. You have a lathe.

Also, note that many taps do not have the guide hole or point on the tang. This is particularly true in the smaller sizes. A tap wrench with integral guide solves that problem. Another warning - big tap wrenches and small taps are a recipe for broken taps - you need something with a sensitive feel for the smaller taps. Torque isn't your friend when making small parts.

 

[vlmarshall]

Another warning - big tap wrenches and small taps are a recipe for broken taps - you need something with a sensitive feel for the smaller taps. Torque isn't your friend when making small parts.

Too true! For really small taps I'll slide the T-handle out of my smallest ap wrench, and just spin the wrench body with my fingertips.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Marv. I think that's what I was looking for.

but you don't want to make tools.

Aw geesh, you make me feel bad. I don't want to make tools 'right now'. There is no doubt I'll do it...and even like it...a lot. Doesn't it count that I'm working on the indicator holders and vise stop?

Maybe I'll start a new 'zee' and let him take the beatings. :big:

Don't let up. ;D

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Define 'really small taps'.
The range I think I'll be working with most are 4, 6, 8, 10, 1/4. But that's my limited experience. I can see the possibility of something smaller. But bigger? Not sure.

 

[Foozer]

Define 'really small taps'.
The range I think I'll be working with most are 4, 6, 8, 10, 1/4. But that's my limited experience. I can see the possibility of something smaller. But bigger? Not sure.

Anyone that breaks however, when they start to have a center point in the business end tho, they might be out of the smaller class

Both of these can be broken and have broken more towards the right side of this scale then the left.

 

[vlmarshall]

Define 'really small taps'.

;D

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Robert...okay...smaller than a quarter is small...bigger than a quarter is not small.

Vernon...just saw your smiley. You funny guy. Not helpful. But funny.

Sheesh.

 

[rake60]

I do most of my tapping while the part is still in the mill vise.
Immediately after drill the hole to to the recommended to tap drill
I mount the tap in the mill spindle and turn it by hand to start it straight.
Once it is started the spindle is opened up and a tap handle is put to work.

Here are a few out of my home tool box.
(The cigarette is for scale.)

The biggest one will turn a 1"-8 tap with two fists and a strong determination.
That little disk with the square hole in the center will turn a 0-80 tap
using a thumb and forefinger.

Talk about a wide open subject!


Rick

 

[zeeprogrammer]

I hadn't thought to put the tap in the spindle. I was thinking of the t-handles (you show 2).

As in...put a pointy thing (like a lather center) in the spindle and have it 'hold' the top of the t-handle.

My t-handle doesn't have a hole or center for it but I knew that some did.

Does it matter what the shape of the end of the tap is when put into the spindle?

Hey...you hit an even 3000 posts with that one!

 

[vlmarshall]

I hadn't thought to put the tap in the spindle. I was thinking of the t-handles (you show 2).
As in...put a pointy thing (like a lather center) in the spindle and have it 'hold' the top of the t-handle.
My t-handle doesn't have a hole or center for it but I knew that some did.
Does it matter what the shape of the end of the tap is when put into the spindle?

Just to balance my funny/helpful account, I'll mention that if you mount a tap in the spindle (and aren't rigid tapping on a CNC mill ;D ), you won't be able to feel what you're doing. That's why I like the spring guides. Chuck one in the spindle or tailstock, and trap the tap wrench between the part and the guide...the spring keeps the center in the wrench over a long distance, so you don't have to keep chasing it with the spindle or tailstock.

 

[Jasonb]

Its possible to use your drill chuck to guide the tap, just do it up enough so the tap can turn without wobble, thats holding teh round shank. Put a straight tap wrench onto the lower round part of the shank to turn the tap. This will give enough grip to start the thread, you can then go back later and complete the thread with it held by the square end.

The problem with cheap tee wrenches is that the tap may not be held true so no point is using the ctr to guide it if its out of line.


Jason

 

[zeeprogrammer]

you won't be able to feel what you're doing. That's why I like the spring guides.
so you don't have to keep chasing it with the spindle or tailstock.

Yeah I wondered about that. I like the die holder on the lathe for that reason. I think Marv's suggested ones address that. (See reply 241 in the "Open Column Launch Engine From Kit' project.)

Jason: This is an example of how solidified my wetware has become. I was thinking, since the end of the tap is where you hold it...then that's where you hold it. It didn't occur to me to simply move further down the shaft to the round part and grip there. This is one of the (many) major reasons I started this hobby...to re-plasticize the brain. More examples to come.

 

[mklotz]

Define 'really small taps'.

To me, really small is anything smaller than #4. If you're going to be building small model engines, it's inevitable that you'll encounter the need to tap #0, #1, #2, #3 holes - the scale of the project will demand it. Since these are the most delicate taps, you need to address how you will prevent breaking them. The most common ways to break them are overtorquing and bending. A tiny (hard to overtorque), fully piloted (can't bend tap even after well started in hole) tap holder is pretty much essential unless you have a friend with an EDM who enjoys tap-blasting for you.

As in...put a pointy thing (like a lather center) in the spindle and have it 'hold' the top of the t-handle.

As Vernon has already pointed out, the problem here is that, as soon as the tap descends a bit into the hole, your "pointy thing" no longer engages the hole in the tap wrench. Thus , unless you continually readjust the spindle, your tap has no lateral constraint to prevent you from bending it and breaking it.

That's why he recommended the spring-loaded tap guide which will "follow" the wrench automatically.

Of course, the spring isn't really needed. Simply put a sliding-fit pin in the wrench to keep it from bending and let the wrench slide down the pin under the action of the tap threading into the hole.

 

[Foozer]

Quote from: Vernon on Today at 04:53:19 AM
you won't be able to feel what you're doing. That's why I like the spring guides.
so you don't have to keep chasing it with the spindle or tailstock.

. . .

Yeah I wondered about that. I like the die holder on the lathe for that reason. I think Marv's suggested ones address that. (See reply 241 in the "Open Column Launch Engine From Kit' project.)

. . .

Posted by: mklotz
As Vernon has already pointed out, the problem here is that, as soon as the tap descends a bit into the hole, your "pointy thing" no longer engages the hole in the tap wrench. Thus , unless you continually readjust the spindle, your tap has no lateral constraint to prevent you from bending it and breaking it.

That's why he recommended the spring-loaded tap guide which will "follow" the wrench automatically.

Of course, the spring isn't really needed. Simply put a sliding-fit pin in the wrench to keep it from bending and let the wrench slide down the pin under the action of the tap threading into the hole.

Made a little tap holder for the lathe, spring loaded prototype, top one before the slot cut for pin to slide in. As Marv pointed out, one can draw them all day long but in actuality the deficiencies will make themselves known. Could use more travel in the slide, but it allows for the tap "feel" thereby not having to toss another part into the neighbors yard. I like the sliding pin version that Marv refers to, sounds solid in usage.

EDIT: To add post HERE for tailstock tap and die holder info

 

[Mainer]

I've used the Walton piloted spindle tap wrench (like Marv shows in his MSCDIRECT link) for years, and love it. There are two sizes, the smaller accepting up to 1/4" taps and the larger from 1/4" up to, I think, 1/2".

Be sure you get the genuine Walton brand. It's a bit expensive, but the import copy I tried once was fairly useless -- it didn't hold the tap concentrically.