Setting up my new shop

[Bogstandard]

Marv,

I downloaded a couple of machine manuals from Grizzly, not for this exact machine, but a similar clone.
The manuals were 1000% better, but a lot of the required information is still missing.

If I can get all the required and correct info together, I just might knock up a manual and wave it under Chester's nose.

My relations with them has been getting strained of late, because I am asking questions and making statements that they don't like on their own website. But it has to be asked and said.

http://www.atfreeforum.com/chesteruk/viewtopic.php?t=290&mforum=chesteruk

A lot of harumphing and chuffing and flapping of wings going on in the background.

They don't seem to like people throwing spanners into their works.


John

 

[CrewCab]

Sorry to hear things are not quite going to plan John, ....... dam shame after the excellent start with the mill as well ??? ............. good luck mate, hope you get it sorted soon.

I'm on the Chester forum as well, and as you know it's pretty quiet ...........you'll probably get a quicker response by driving down there

CC

 

[mklotz]

Please bare (sic) with us as you have a very nice machine in the Crusader, don't be put off by a bad manual

I love that. Typical managerial codswollop. What exactly should you be put off by? I'm afraid I wouldn't be nearly as polite as you, Bogs, with this demonstrably illiterate dingbat.

 

[Bogstandard]

I have to remain very neutral and a bit restrained at the moment Marv. Things that have come to light since making the posting about screw threading.

They can't wait to get this machine out of my hands, just in case my further examinations reveal more issues. I have photos that I have taken, that if made generally available, would very seriously damage their reputation, and is a thing I don't want to do, because I have had many good dealings with them over the years.

I am waiting on them now, to see what sort of package they can come up with to keep me happy, and less nosey.

John

 

[Twinsquirrel]

I have to remain very neutral and a bit restrained at the moment Marv. Things that have come to light since making the posting about screw threading.

They can't wait to get this machine out of my hands, just in case my further examinations reveal more issues. I have photos that I have taken, that if made generally available, would very seriously damage their reputation, and is a thing I don't want to do, because I have had many good dealings with them over the years.

I am waiting on them now, to see what sort of package they can come up with to keep me happy, and less nosey.

John

You haven't found some illegal immigrants in the suds tank have you John? :big:

David

 

[Bogstandard]

Dave,

No, but when I took the lid off the box, it definitely had signs that people and yaks had been living in there.

John

 

[Bogstandard]

Just to give Marv a bit of indigestion, I have a bit more info on the threading bit.

When I first measured the leadscrew (2" visible down the bottom of a long tunnel) it contradicted what the manual and what I said initially.

8 TPI and a 3mm pitch look very close when measured at a distance, but now that I have full access to the leadscrew (being nosey again), it is DEFINITELY METRIC 3MM PITCH.

With information gained over the last few days, I have eventually figured out how to cut metric, and hopefully imperial threads.

Now just one little poser for all you wizzkids on threading.

On this machine, I will have to carry out imperial threading (and some metric ones)using the permanently engaged half nuts method. No problems with that, I have done it too many times before.

Because I have never had to do it before (I have always had the use of a threading dial, which makes it easy), has anyone any idea on how to cut multistart threads whilst using permanently engaged half nuts? Or isn't it possible?

John

 

[John S]

Now just one little poser for all you wizzkids on threading.

On this machine, I will have to carry out imperial threading (and some metric ones)using the permanently engaged half nuts method. No problems with that, I have done it too many times before.

Because I have never had to do it before (I have always had the use of a threading dial, which makes it easy), has anyone any idea on how to cut multistart threads whilst using permanently engaged half nuts? Or isn't it possible?

John

Say you want to do a 3mm two start, set the pitch for 6mm and cut one thread to 3mm specs [ width, depth etc ]
The advance the top slide 3mm and cut the second thread. This assumes top slide is parallel to work.
If you work with the top slide offset to use as a 29 degree infeed then this won't apply unless you do some trig.

In this case another way is to put a 3mm spacer behind the tool and remove it for the second pass pushing the tool 3mm further in the holder.

Standard way is to disengage the drive train, turn round 1/2 a turn and remesh but looking at your pics it doesn't look like you have access to the spindle drive gear, only a driver off it so that method may not work.

John S.

 

[Bogstandard]

John,

This is one of my problems, being an old fart, I have only ever owned lathes that have full access to the gear trains, then I could fiddle about with them and get whatever I wanted. Bit of paper and a pencil, et voila, all worked out.

Your method strikes a light somewhere in my single brain cell, so it might be a method to be explored.

We will have to get all this threading stuff into one package on the site, for general reference, because I am sure there are a lot of people out there will need this info sometime in the future.

Thanks

John

 

[mklotz]

I keep the compound parallel to the bed and seldom swing it to 29.5 for the small threads I turn. Thus John's technique is what I almost always use for multi-starts.

And yes, Bogs, we do need to get this information organized for future members once you've got it all worked out. I can't believe that leadscrew is back to being metric again. Now I'm even more confused about the eight marks on the threading dial.

 

[Bogstandard]

Yes Marv, definite 3mm thread AND 8 positions.

BUT

This machine is being swapped out, and I don't know what the new one will have in it, as the manual says 8TPI/3MM so it could be either. Only time will tell.

Bogs

 

[mklotz]

I surely hope that this isn't a case of the Chinese thinking that 3 mm (0.118") and 0.125" are "close enough" to call them "equal".

 

[John S]

I keep the compound parallel to the bed and seldom swing it to 29.5 for the small threads I turn. Thus John's technique is what I almost always use for multi-starts.

And yes, Bogs, we do need to get this information organized for future members once you've got it all worked out. I can't believe that leadscrew is back to being metric again. Now I'm even more confused about the eight marks on the threading dial.

Marv,
I think I've cracked it.
they are imperial marks with metric spaces .

.

 

[steamer]

Hi John,

I suspect you were half kinding and being sarcastic but....

To cut a double without opening the half nut is possible.

You will need to index the work 180 degrees. This can be done by:

A
Making an indexing faceplate with multiple accurately located driver dog slots.

B
take a piece of stock and mount in a 4 jaw. Turn a 60 center on the end of the stock. mount the work between centers. Drive the dog by jaw 1 for the first thread and jaw 3 for the second thread. Watch your lash and a piece of leather shoe lace is a good thing to keep the dog in contact with the chuck jaw at all time!

I do hope that solution C presents itself....in the form of a replacement machine with an imperial leadscrew!

Best of Luck,

Dave

 

[kvom]

We were discussing multi-start threads in shop class last week, and the method of driving the dog with opposite jaws was the "recommended" way of doing a 2-start thread. Of course you can also use a 3-jaw chuck to drive a 3-start thread.

What was missing for me was WHY you need multi-start threads. The explanation was that it allows the nut to travel further on each revolution with a smaller thread depth. So if you need a 4 TPI thread but cut double, the individual threads will have the depth of an 8 TPI form, and hence the screw will be stronger. Thought I would post this in case any other newbies were wondering the same thing.

 

[Bernd]

Steamer you beat me to the punch with the index plate. IIRC one of the Bedside Readers has a setup written up on that. I'm going to have to check that out.

Bog's

You interested in this method. I could send you the info if and when I find it?

Bernd

 

[steamer]

Please no punching, Im an Engineer not a fighter ;D

 

[steamer]

Here is A referance though I have seen this before in Colvin's books.

This is from " Machine Shop Methods" by Lorus J Milne

Reprinted by Lindsay Publications. Great book!

Dave

PS it will print out readable if you save it as a photo

 

[Bogstandard]

I will take any information and experiences that is going on the subject, on the understanding that it can be read and understood by a total beginner. I don't have the time to read everything and convert it into understandable newbie language, so if it can be pulled and inserted as a going concern it is a lot better.

With regards to the chuck jaw and driveplate methods, they are perfectly acceptable, above a certain size. You have to remember we are usually working with bits that are usually 1/4" or finer, and as such, usually need to be supported in a chuck or collet.

I really do appreciate all this information, and hopefully, one day it can be turned into a masterclass on easily understood threading, where everyone can add their little bits of info and experiences. But at the moment I am rather tied down with this damned hunk of metal, to get stuck into a large project such as I have mentioned.

I now know that I can turn threads of a sorts on this lathe. I now need to get back to the major issues with it, and get me up and running, so I can get the shop finished (it has been at a standstill for nearly a week) and some engines made.

So I will bypass on the lathe for the moment, and carry on with a few bits that can be done without the lathe in position.

BTW, the tiling and grovelling didn't work, NO PAINT (as yet), a very, very hard nosed woman my missus. She would make a great 'Godfather', offers you can't refuse - or else.

Bogs

 

[Bogstandard]

Lathe byepassed and getting on with the job in hand.

One of the major bits in the shop, the blinging machine.
I bought this 8" grinder, brand new and cheap off eblay, and stripped off all the crappy bits to what is really needed, a motor with a spindle either side.
A couple of pigtails, et voila, 8" of pure bling power.
I just so happened to have some real nice quality conveyor belting in my little shop of horrors, so a chunk was cut off and hung behind the machine as shown. It was mounted a little bit away from the wall and a bend in the bottom forms a catch tray.
I am hoping that if I lose a bit because of having to let go, it will hit the 'soft wall', cause no damage to the part, and fall into the catch tray. It might work, it might not, but it will sure as hell keep all the crap off the non painted walls, and it is wipe clean.

Here is a shot taken from over the now rejected lathe.
When I eventually get a lathe installed, the pigtails will be shortened slightly.
I also have to cut a small hole thru the catch channel to allow the mains cable to be routed into a safer position.

I can't wait to get my grubby little digits going on this bit of kit.
Watch out all you stand in 'Blingmeisters', Sir Boglet the Bling will be back, with a vengeance. No prisoners taken.

Bogs