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You can thank TaxPhd (Scott).
He raised a question about the Precision Matthews machine. I noticed it was the same as Bogs, so I pointed him over here. Thought you might want to know about it.
Sorry, John. Didn't intend to hijack.
He raised a question about the Precision Matthews machine. I noticed it was the same as Bogs, so I pointed him over here. Thought you might want to know about it.
Sorry, John. Didn't intend to hijack.
B
Bogstandard
Guest
Rick,
I seems these machines come in all different flavours, and the one I have purchased is one designed for us 'mad hatters' who tend to use more metric than imperial.
I think, from the chuck mounting to tailstock they should all be basically the same, except for a few mods done by the suppliers.
Where the main changes occur is in the gearbox heads. As far as I can make out, there are three different versions, then mine that has been modified on the input side to give that little extra.
Mine is geared (excuse the pun) towards a combination of mainly metric with imperial as a side order, whereas in the US I would suspect it to be the other way around.
This is my first far eastern lathe I have ever bought, and going from a US made Atlas with more documentation than you could read in a lifetime, to one that comes with a manual that has about six lines on screwcutting, and all it tells you is look at the charts on the machine. It is like going from a bed of roses, to up to your neck in a pile of s**t.
I am in no way saying the machine is bad, in fact, except for their little cosmetic problems and a few niggles (tailstock tang lock), it looks to me to be a very well made, hopefully accurate, and a robust machine. Which once I have got used to it's little foibles, I will come to love just like my old lathe.
Where they fail is total and utter non information in the manual, and for what use it is, it may as well be hanging up in the outhouse, for when you run out of toilet paper.
The only problem with that is the paper is the type that will spread it around, rather than wipe it off. You just can't win, they get you all ways.
I want to know how to cut weird and multistart threads. The information must be out there somewhere, or else I am in for a rather long and laborious learning curve.
There should be a lot in this post that can help people understand what this type of lathe is about, that is why I am showing it, warts and all.
If you can live with the warts, great. If not, look for something that has no imperfections (but expect your pocket to suffer). By taking on the warts, I hope to have a machine that will suit myself with regards to what it can do in the size department.
I have said this before and repeat it again, I will be using this machine for a certain type of work, model engine making is an added bonus. This machine cost just under $4000, but that was with a lot of extras added, like 18 spindle speeds and a good quality DRO fitted. To get it to where I can use it for doing the work that is intended for it, the same amount has been spent on tooling (the toolholders came to nearly $500). That puts this lathe about equal in price with the mill I have just bought. These machines fit my shop, home grown expensive ones wouldn't.
To put it bluntly, there are a lot of different models of this lathe out there, if you can live without a few of the bells and whistles, they can be obtained for very reasonable prices.
John
I seems these machines come in all different flavours, and the one I have purchased is one designed for us 'mad hatters' who tend to use more metric than imperial.
I think, from the chuck mounting to tailstock they should all be basically the same, except for a few mods done by the suppliers.
Where the main changes occur is in the gearbox heads. As far as I can make out, there are three different versions, then mine that has been modified on the input side to give that little extra.
Mine is geared (excuse the pun) towards a combination of mainly metric with imperial as a side order, whereas in the US I would suspect it to be the other way around.
This is my first far eastern lathe I have ever bought, and going from a US made Atlas with more documentation than you could read in a lifetime, to one that comes with a manual that has about six lines on screwcutting, and all it tells you is look at the charts on the machine. It is like going from a bed of roses, to up to your neck in a pile of s**t.
I am in no way saying the machine is bad, in fact, except for their little cosmetic problems and a few niggles (tailstock tang lock), it looks to me to be a very well made, hopefully accurate, and a robust machine. Which once I have got used to it's little foibles, I will come to love just like my old lathe.
Where they fail is total and utter non information in the manual, and for what use it is, it may as well be hanging up in the outhouse, for when you run out of toilet paper.
The only problem with that is the paper is the type that will spread it around, rather than wipe it off. You just can't win, they get you all ways.
I want to know how to cut weird and multistart threads. The information must be out there somewhere, or else I am in for a rather long and laborious learning curve.
There should be a lot in this post that can help people understand what this type of lathe is about, that is why I am showing it, warts and all.
If you can live with the warts, great. If not, look for something that has no imperfections (but expect your pocket to suffer). By taking on the warts, I hope to have a machine that will suit myself with regards to what it can do in the size department.
I have said this before and repeat it again, I will be using this machine for a certain type of work, model engine making is an added bonus. This machine cost just under $4000, but that was with a lot of extras added, like 18 spindle speeds and a good quality DRO fitted. To get it to where I can use it for doing the work that is intended for it, the same amount has been spent on tooling (the toolholders came to nearly $500). That puts this lathe about equal in price with the mill I have just bought. These machines fit my shop, home grown expensive ones wouldn't.
To put it bluntly, there are a lot of different models of this lathe out there, if you can live without a few of the bells and whistles, they can be obtained for very reasonable prices.
John
John: I have an 8" 4 jaw threaded chuck that is also a hernia generator but with your mount there is a simple solution.
Mount a davit at the back of the lathe with a turnbuckle hanging down. Swing it over the chuck, screw the turnbuckle into a tapped hole in the chuck, take the weight with the turnbuckle, unlock the chuck and swing it out of the way. Just leave it hanging on the davit until needed and then reverse the procedure.
Mount a davit at the back of the lathe with a turnbuckle hanging down. Swing it over the chuck, screw the turnbuckle into a tapped hole in the chuck, take the weight with the turnbuckle, unlock the chuck and swing it out of the way. Just leave it hanging on the davit until needed and then reverse the procedure.
applescotty
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John,
I, like others, have really been enjoying this thread. I have found it extremely interesting to see what tool choices you've made, what changes you're making, etc. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
You've mentioned a couple of times that you're outfitting your shop for a particular purpose. Have you elaborated on this purpose in another post? I'm not wanting to pry, and certainly don't feel compelled to say more than you wish to. I'm just curious (as I'm sure others are, too).
Scott
I, like others, have really been enjoying this thread. I have found it extremely interesting to see what tool choices you've made, what changes you're making, etc. Thanks for taking the time to write it up.
You've mentioned a couple of times that you're outfitting your shop for a particular purpose. Have you elaborated on this purpose in another post? I'm not wanting to pry, and certainly don't feel compelled to say more than you wish to. I'm just curious (as I'm sure others are, too).
Scott
B
Bogstandard
Guest
Stan,
Your idea of the davit is already being pursued by my mentor, I am leaving it up to him to get it all organised. Many thanks for the suggestion anyway. It is always nice when someone does their best to help.
Scott,
It is being set up for doing some rework and prototyping jobs for an old company I used to work for.
John
Your idea of the davit is already being pursued by my mentor, I am leaving it up to him to get it all organised. Many thanks for the suggestion anyway. It is always nice when someone does their best to help.
Scott,
It is being set up for doing some rework and prototyping jobs for an old company I used to work for.
John
Divided He ad
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- 549
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A 12" ball ehh?! .... Not wanting to point out the obvious but, if I could make that John I would be able to make the pulley!!! ;D
What purpose could you have for such a sphere? .... you planning on some demolition?!!
I'll explain all the covert plans at the weekend.... Your bound to call me mad!!
Ralph.
What purpose could you have for such a sphere? .... you planning on some demolition?!!
I'll explain all the covert plans at the weekend.... Your bound to call me mad!!
Ralph.
B
Bogstandard
Guest
Yet another bit to add to this epic saga.
My moving man drove from the other side of the country yesterday afternoon and got my lathe into the shop. By the way his hoist flexed, there was no way Tel could have carried it in on his back. Kevin the man reckoned on about 350kg (just over 700lbs). So even with Tel on the heavy end, the wife on the other, they still would have struggled, made me sweat just thinking about it.
Anyway, here it is, in the centre of the shop, so that I can get all around it to do any assembly that is required.
A thin layer of silicone sealant was put between the tray and bases and then between the lathe and tray. This will stop any stray suds getting into the cabinets underneath.
By the time I took this photo I had already connected up the machine stop/footbrake and connected and fitted most of the electrics. By this time I was just wiring in the suds pump.
This is the business end, a 240volt (single phase) 2HP motor connected to the main gearbox by twin belts.
It is this area I am really disappointed with. To swap the belts over to give another speed range entails undoing the motor bolts to slacken the belts to allow the changeover. This shouldn't matter to most buyers of this type of clone as the twin pulley, as far as I know, is one of Chesters own mods.
I can see a perfect place between the belts and the lower mounting stud for the cover, to be utilised for a belt tensioner quadrant, to save having to slacken the motor off.
To counteract the disappointment about the belts, I noticed when I was poking about, the main gearbox is a separate unit, and it has it's own horizontal jacking screws. That means, if I have a sideways taper after it is all set up, that will be able to be adjusted it out with a bit of fine tweaking.
This shot shows the footbrake linkage coming up to a shutoff microswitch and a fair sized pair of brake shoes mounted into the back of the drive pulley that goes to the back of the main gearbox.
You can't help but notice the gaping hole thru the spindle, a very handy 1.5". It is also threaded into the end, but I don't know what for, maybe a collet closer.
Below the spindle is a very robust gear quadrant, fitted with all steel, well made gears. These are for changing over from metric to imperial and the ratios on the lead screw.
Away from the machine tour now. This is the first mod I will be doing to the machine. Fitting a second double DRO.
So I have got the topslide off and trying the read head for fit.
You might say that it is a little too long for the slide. Before I ordered the DRO heads I had already noticed I might run into problems getting things into the right position. Chester didn't have one of these lathe in, so when I was in their showroom, I had a look at similar type lathes and measured the topslides. This proved to be the right thing to do, because if I had ordered the shorter head I would have been in major trouble getting it to fit where I wanted it.
If you notice the jib lock screw in the side, and the nut for holding the topslide down. This meant the actual read head couldn't be mounted centrally, but at the rear. If I had bought the shorter one, I would have run out of read area on the scale before the topslide had reached its limits.
The aluminium bracket for the scale will have new slots machined into it, and the read head will have a purpose made ali mounting block to get it into the right position.
It really does pay to plan well ahead.
Now for a little bit for Marv.
If you remember, I said that the screw thread gauge was mounted solid. Well on closer inspection (I couldn't get to it properly to see before) it does pivot out. I removed it so that I could see a little bit of the totally enclosed leadscrew. After measuring it, contrary to what the manual said, it has an 8TPI leadscrew. So that makes it even more confusing when cutting threads. Do you believe the charts or not? I suppose the only way to do it, is to try cutting a few.
Now back again.
This post has now been suspended awaiting confirmation from Chester UK about a question asked of them.
Please do not ask why.
Sorry, but normal service will resume as soon as possible.
John
My moving man drove from the other side of the country yesterday afternoon and got my lathe into the shop. By the way his hoist flexed, there was no way Tel could have carried it in on his back. Kevin the man reckoned on about 350kg (just over 700lbs). So even with Tel on the heavy end, the wife on the other, they still would have struggled, made me sweat just thinking about it.
Anyway, here it is, in the centre of the shop, so that I can get all around it to do any assembly that is required.
A thin layer of silicone sealant was put between the tray and bases and then between the lathe and tray. This will stop any stray suds getting into the cabinets underneath.
By the time I took this photo I had already connected up the machine stop/footbrake and connected and fitted most of the electrics. By this time I was just wiring in the suds pump.
This is the business end, a 240volt (single phase) 2HP motor connected to the main gearbox by twin belts.
It is this area I am really disappointed with. To swap the belts over to give another speed range entails undoing the motor bolts to slacken the belts to allow the changeover. This shouldn't matter to most buyers of this type of clone as the twin pulley, as far as I know, is one of Chesters own mods.
I can see a perfect place between the belts and the lower mounting stud for the cover, to be utilised for a belt tensioner quadrant, to save having to slacken the motor off.
To counteract the disappointment about the belts, I noticed when I was poking about, the main gearbox is a separate unit, and it has it's own horizontal jacking screws. That means, if I have a sideways taper after it is all set up, that will be able to be adjusted it out with a bit of fine tweaking.
This shot shows the footbrake linkage coming up to a shutoff microswitch and a fair sized pair of brake shoes mounted into the back of the drive pulley that goes to the back of the main gearbox.
You can't help but notice the gaping hole thru the spindle, a very handy 1.5". It is also threaded into the end, but I don't know what for, maybe a collet closer.
Below the spindle is a very robust gear quadrant, fitted with all steel, well made gears. These are for changing over from metric to imperial and the ratios on the lead screw.
Away from the machine tour now. This is the first mod I will be doing to the machine. Fitting a second double DRO.
So I have got the topslide off and trying the read head for fit.
You might say that it is a little too long for the slide. Before I ordered the DRO heads I had already noticed I might run into problems getting things into the right position. Chester didn't have one of these lathe in, so when I was in their showroom, I had a look at similar type lathes and measured the topslides. This proved to be the right thing to do, because if I had ordered the shorter head I would have been in major trouble getting it to fit where I wanted it.
If you notice the jib lock screw in the side, and the nut for holding the topslide down. This meant the actual read head couldn't be mounted centrally, but at the rear. If I had bought the shorter one, I would have run out of read area on the scale before the topslide had reached its limits.
The aluminium bracket for the scale will have new slots machined into it, and the read head will have a purpose made ali mounting block to get it into the right position.
It really does pay to plan well ahead.
Now for a little bit for Marv.
If you remember, I said that the screw thread gauge was mounted solid. Well on closer inspection (I couldn't get to it properly to see before) it does pivot out. I removed it so that I could see a little bit of the totally enclosed leadscrew. After measuring it, contrary to what the manual said, it has an 8TPI leadscrew. So that makes it even more confusing when cutting threads. Do you believe the charts or not? I suppose the only way to do it, is to try cutting a few.
Now back again.
This post has now been suspended awaiting confirmation from Chester UK about a question asked of them.
Please do not ask why.
Sorry, but normal service will resume as soon as possible.
John
mklotz
Well-Known Member
If you don't mount a collet closer on the aft end of the spindle, you can do what I did with the threads there. Make a mini faceplate to go on there and fit it with three adjustable fingers to (roughly) center long stock and prevent it from whipping and clanging at low speeds.
An 8 tpi leadscrew certainly explains the eight marks on the threading dial. But now I'm even more confused. How can one use that dial when threading metric? The plate on the front of the lathe [shown in one of your previous photos] seems to indicate it can be done, but I surely don't understand how. If they've puzzled out how to do that, there will be many folks, myself included, anxious to know the procedure.
We anxiously await further revelations.
An 8 tpi leadscrew certainly explains the eight marks on the threading dial. But now I'm even more confused. How can one use that dial when threading metric? The plate on the front of the lathe [shown in one of your previous photos] seems to indicate it can be done, but I surely don't understand how. If they've puzzled out how to do that, there will be many folks, myself included, anxious to know the procedure.
We anxiously await further revelations.
B
Bogstandard
Guest
That is a very cunning idea Marv, I just might make one.
Because this lathe is going to within 10" of the far wall, I will be cutting a hole thru the wall, to take long bar into my back room. One of the requirements for my jobs.
Now you see why I am confused as well Marv. But all answers should be here soon.
John
Because this lathe is going to within 10" of the far wall, I will be cutting a hole thru the wall, to take long bar into my back room. One of the requirements for my jobs.
Now you see why I am confused as well Marv. But all answers should be here soon.
John
According to the metric chart it's driven by a 127 gear wheel.
That means it's an imperial lathe hence the 8 tpi screw and when in metric mode you have to leave the half nuts engaged.
I have an all metric TOS and it's a genuine all metric and on this one you have to run the 127 to get imperial and leave the 1/2 nuts in.
.
That means it's an imperial lathe hence the 8 tpi screw and when in metric mode you have to leave the half nuts engaged.
I have an all metric TOS and it's a genuine all metric and on this one you have to run the 127 to get imperial and leave the 1/2 nuts in.
.
crankshafter
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- 367
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- 24
Marv.mklotz said:
I have the same lathe and I can tell you that the 0,14,15,16 on the indicator table refers to what size of gear you have to put on the threading dial.
CS
mklotz
Well-Known Member
I suspect that John Stevenson has nailed it. It's really an Imperial lathe that has the necessary transposition gears to turn metric threads. This despite what Bogs said earlier to the effect that it's a metric lathe that can turn Imperial.
But John S's remark about leaving the half-nuts engaged is at odds with the chart for using the threading dial when cutting metric threads. This is further bolstered by Crankshaft's remark,
Bogs, have you looked through the bits that came with the lathe and found any small gears that look like they may fit the threading dial?
But John S's remark about leaving the half-nuts engaged is at odds with the chart for using the threading dial when cutting metric threads. This is further bolstered by Crankshaft's remark,
Bogs, have you looked through the bits that came with the lathe and found any small gears that look like they may fit the threading dial?
B
Bogstandard
Guest
Gents,
This little bit we have been discussing has really started to bring the problems I am encountering to the fore.
As I said, half a dozen lines in the manual basically said, to cut screwthreads, refer to the charts on the machine. No other explanations of what does what was given. The charts are your only reference.
One part of the jigsaw has kindly been supplied by crankshafter, but as Marv said, this raises further questions.
Can metric threads be cut on this machine by dropping in on the right index mark?
What is done about Imperial threads? No threading charts.
I have only had this machine into a position where I can see everything for a day. So until I can get to play with it, a few questions might have to remain unanswered.
Chester have said that they have sold a lot of these machines. Well it seems that a lot minus 1 don't cut screwthreads.
I have a lot of issues with Chester over this machine, and I have asked them to explain. Hence the stop on the lathe at this moment.
Damn, I thought the little gears were all sent by mistake, and was designing an engine around them.
Because I didn't have physical access at the time, I could only go by the information supplied in the terrible manual. That info changed when I took the indicator off.
John
This little bit we have been discussing has really started to bring the problems I am encountering to the fore.
As I said, half a dozen lines in the manual basically said, to cut screwthreads, refer to the charts on the machine. No other explanations of what does what was given. The charts are your only reference.
One part of the jigsaw has kindly been supplied by crankshafter, but as Marv said, this raises further questions.
Can metric threads be cut on this machine by dropping in on the right index mark?
What is done about Imperial threads? No threading charts.
I have only had this machine into a position where I can see everything for a day. So until I can get to play with it, a few questions might have to remain unanswered.
Chester have said that they have sold a lot of these machines. Well it seems that a lot minus 1 don't cut screwthreads.
I have a lot of issues with Chester over this machine, and I have asked them to explain. Hence the stop on the lathe at this moment.
Damn, I thought the little gears were all sent by mistake, and was designing an engine around them.
Because I didn't have physical access at the time, I could only go by the information supplied in the terrible manual. That info changed when I took the indicator off.
John
B
Bogstandard
Guest
John,
I fully understand where you are coming from, the charts are there, but no info on how to use the given info.
The metric drop in chart is now sorted, since I now know that you have to change the gears on the drop in dial.
There are imperial charts supplied, but no mention of what gear to use on the dial or what drop in numbers, or as I mentioned before, do you keep the half nuts engaged to cut imperial. Which seems a bit weird now that I have found it has an imperial leadscrew.
If all this info was supplied at the beginning in the manual, these problems wouldn't have arisen.
This info will have to wait for a while now, as this machine is being swapped out by Chester UK because of some of my unmentionable findings. When, I don't know, that is up to the supplier.
John
I fully understand where you are coming from, the charts are there, but no info on how to use the given info.
The metric drop in chart is now sorted, since I now know that you have to change the gears on the drop in dial.
There are imperial charts supplied, but no mention of what gear to use on the dial or what drop in numbers, or as I mentioned before, do you keep the half nuts engaged to cut imperial. Which seems a bit weird now that I have found it has an imperial leadscrew.
If all this info was supplied at the beginning in the manual, these problems wouldn't have arisen.
This info will have to wait for a while now, as this machine is being swapped out by Chester UK because of some of my unmentionable findings. When, I don't know, that is up to the supplier.
John
Twinsquirrel
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Sorry to hear that you are having issues there John, I hope that Chester have another machine in the UK to swap out, I'm sure that they will look after you. On the bright side you have found the "unmentionable" problems early on, it would have been much worse if you had fully commissioned the machine only to find a show stopping issue.
I'm sure it wont make you feel any better but my speed controller board went up in a puff of smoke on my mini lathe yesterday but a quick call to the supplier and he says he will pop one in the post today. It certainly seems that with all my dealings with suppliers in this hobby everyone they all have a great attitude and bend over backwards to help.
David
I'm sure it wont make you feel any better but my speed controller board went up in a puff of smoke on my mini lathe yesterday but a quick call to the supplier and he says he will pop one in the post today. It certainly seems that with all my dealings with suppliers in this hobby everyone they all have a great attitude and bend over backwards to help.
David
B
Bogstandard
Guest
David,
They do have a replacement machine for me, they have just phoned requiring to know what will be required to do the swap over.
I have no complaints at all with Chester, they are doing a great job to sort the problems out.
It does pay to go over new machinery with a very fine toothed comb as I have done. I could have just wacked it in, levelled it and started to use it, then at a later date things would have gone pear shaped. Doing it my long winded way gets the problems sorted (and proveable) before it gets out of hand.
I suspect someone on the Chinese side will get a real good a**e kicking over it.
John
They do have a replacement machine for me, they have just phoned requiring to know what will be required to do the swap over.
I have no complaints at all with Chester, they are doing a great job to sort the problems out.
It does pay to go over new machinery with a very fine toothed comb as I have done. I could have just wacked it in, levelled it and started to use it, then at a later date things would have gone pear shaped. Doing it my long winded way gets the problems sorted (and proveable) before it gets out of hand.
I suspect someone on the Chinese side will get a real good a**e kicking over it.
John
mklotz
Well-Known Member
I suspect that these importers of Asian machine tools could halve their phone bills and support staff if they paid some literate hobbyist a few dollars/pounds to write a concordance for their woefully inadequate manuals.
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