Setting up my new shop

[Bogstandard]

I will say this again, this isn't a posing post.

I needed machines to do a definite job and a little more, I am just showing how I got around my problems and why I eventually chose them.

It took me many many months of searching to find the machines that would suit me, with my physical abilities. These are the last ones I will ever buy, so they had to be right (almost).

Even if I had a great wedge of cash, I am sure I would have still gone for the two machines I have ended up with, because they came very close to MY ideals of what was required.

It is no use rushing out and buying the first machine you see. It takes time to select the right one, get it wrong and you will be unhappy. This is why I am showing my shop build, and why I chose each machine, neither are perfect by any means, but with a few mods here and there, they CAN be made into my ideal machines.

Many years ago, when I met my mate and mentor Tel, he showed me all the controls for a Hardinge collet lathe, so that I could make some bits for the project I was working on. Now even though that was a high precision and very expensive machine, there were some things on it that I wouldn't accept if I was to buy one. So it goes to show, expensive doesn't mean perfect for what you want.

It can be very difficult for a person beginning in this hobby to get the right machine for them, and it all boils down to experience. I hoped that by showing what I look for in machinery would make their decision a little easier. Every machine has 'potential', and the lads on here have shown that you don't need big and expensive to get superb results, just a bit of learning, tweaking and modding works wonders.

Rick,

Up until a few years back, in my town, they had a foundry and machine shop that made the rollers for metal roll mills. The rolls were actually cast in the vertical position, half in and half out of the ground. But the lathes in there were something else. 4" square toolbit, the operator sat on a seat fitted to the saddle and travelled along with the cut, tweaking and adjusting as it went v-e-r-y slowly along the cut. Start the cut at the beginning of a shift and finish it off during the shift after. The mic's for measuring were slung above on a small crane. A lot of places are only playing at heavy engineering, but it seems like what you do comes very close to it.
The ones shown in the pic are tiny compared to the size they used to make.

Wouldn't it be nice to get the bar ends off a few of those rolls.

John

 

[NickG]

Looks very nice John. When I was looking for a lathe I found this http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-SIEG-Axminster-SIEG-CQ6230B-910-Metal-Turning-Lathe-570771.htm the same lathe from axminster and thought it looked a bargain, however couldn't justify spending that much money! I can't understand people that buy for example a new ML7 with nowhere near the same capability as yours at more than double the cost. I think a basic one is around £5k now, unbelievable!

Can't wait to see it set up and in action!

Nick

 

[Bogstandard]

Nick,

I had seen that lathe, but I think they haven't had it advertised long. It is basically the same as mine, except the one I went for has 18 gears and a higher top end speed. If I remember rightly, that one has a 9 gear setup. I also paid a lot less for my one than Axminster wants.

There is one thing that is annoying me slightly and is mentioned in the Axminster write up. Thread cutting, even though it can do both standards, is only perfectly set up for metric. But because of the ease the machine can be reversed, either motor or leadscrew, it is just a matter of making a retracting threading toolholder and all will be fine.

I tend not to compare machine to machine too much, as it upsets a few people. Each one to his own.

John

 

[NickG]

True, personally I'd be extremely upset if I'd bought a myford when things like this are on the market!

I'm sure it'll do a fantastic job for you, like I said, looking forward to seeing it in action and can't wait until your projects are revealed!

Nick

 

[Divided He ad]

Glad to see that it is all getting in to shape there John. Nice looking machine ;D

Not long now and you can relax at the helm again

We all like to read how you set your machines up.... some of us have no clue whatsoever!! :

Keep us posted ;D



Ralph.

 

[pelallito]

John,
Everything is looking great. :bow: I don't want to go into my shop after seeing yours. :-[
I did a search for power hacksaws, because I liked the one you got, and could not find any. I don't think that they are imported to the US very often. Are the Chester named machines sold here under another name?
Please continue to tell us about this project.
Regards,
Fred

 

[Bogstandard]

Fred,

Please don't go on a tool envy trip because of me. Your shop suits you, mine will suit me. If we all had the same, what would the world be like?

The mill is a standard 836 (table 8" wide by 36" long) and is available in a variety of flavours to suit your pocket in the US. You pay more cash, you get more add ons.

The lathe as far as I know is a standard, you would have to look for 12" swing (17" in gap bed) by about 36" between centres (mine is a metric machine). Chester have done a few of their own mods on the gearbox and drive belt arrangement to enable lower and faster speeds (from 65 to 1800 on Chester compared to 75 to 1400 on standard), plus double the amount of gear steps, from 9 on a standard machine to 18 on the Chester version.

In my next post I will be giving a run down on my findings and shortcomings in the last 24 hours on this new machine.

John

 

[Bogstandard]

While the weather has been fine, I have taken the opportunity today to give the machine a good looking over.

My findings are what I consider my own personal views, and no way should they be taken as gospel. Different people have different expectations.

Machine build quality. IMHO this machine has definitely been made in China in a high production regime. The quality of finish on this machine is nowhere near the very high standards that I found on my new mill.

It is a machine that will do the job well, all running fits seem to be spot on and slideways are a nice ground finish. Where it is really let down is in the Chinese method of assembly. Normally the machine parts would be machined, masked and painted, then assembled. On this one, that has been done in places, in most others it has been assembled into a subassembly then painted, even all the cap screw bolt heads. Some parts, such as the gearbox operating knobs and handles have paint overspray on them. This isn't a big deal, as it can soon be cleaned off, but a little more care and the machine would look a 100% better.

I also noticed where Chester UK had done their upgrades in their own factory in China. Paint chips and dirty fingermarks on the areas where the mods had been done.
I think this machine was assembled at speed to clear a backlog, maybe later machines will have a little more care taken.

Now onto the bits that came with the machine, this time I am concentrating on the chucks and faceplate.

All nose fittings on this machine go onto a D1-4 camlock mount. A small industry standard that has proven itself over many years of use. So no problems with chucks unscrewing or falling off, so the machine can safely be used in fwds and reverse.
It has a 5MT 'up the spout' but a 5 to 3 MT converter is supplied to use standard sized tooling. By going this large, 38mm (1.5") spindle bore, large bits of bar can be fed thru the spindle, this is a definite plus point on my part.


This is the first bit that will fit, a well made and solid faceplate, 10" diameter. Only one problem, my Keats angle plate won't fit the slots in it. So this will be one of the first things to be machined up. I will drill sets of holes in strategic places. Plus, before first use, the faceplate will be faced off on the lathe and marked so that it goes into the same position each time. Hopefully this will save me having to skim up each time.

Here is the four jaw independent. 8" diameter and a monster of a chuck. It is nearly 4" thick, including backplate, but not the jaws. A definite hernia producer. I think I will be investing in a lighter weight, slightly smaller one.

Now the workhorse of most peoples lathes, the 3 jaw self centering.
A standard 6" supplied with inside and outside jaws. As usual, with all my self centering chucks, I buy sets of soft jaws. In this case, as the photo shows, they are just the basic variety. To allow me to machine much smaller parts, I will machine 60 degree angles to allow them to come much closer into the centre of the chuck, just like normal jaws.

I will also be fitting a 5" 5c collet chuck and a 6" 4 jaw self centering, again with soft jaws. For precision reasons, the collet chuck is ready to fit straight on, not on a backplate, but machined into the chuck back as a unit. The four jaw will have to wait as I need the machine running to machine and fit the backplate.

I had to contact the suppliers today as the 'Chinglish' manual supplied was a bit vague on what lubrication to use. It just said lubricate with 'machine oil', which means absolutely nothing. It turns out for the three gearboxes (top, bottom and carriage), use a 32 grade hydraulic oil, and for bedways and all sliding surfaces, standard 68 grade slideway oil, luckily I have both in stock in large quantities, I also have the recommended 'anti throw grease' for use on the very small gear train quadrant. A few hours running and an oil change will be carried out, followed by another one a few hours later. That should remove any 'nasties' that are lurking in there. Because this machine is classed as a light industrial, they recommend oil changes on a very regular shift basis. I will carry them out as and when I feel it needs it.

I will keep plodding around and letting you know as I come across anything, as it seems a few are interested in the write up.

John

 

[chuck foster]

congrats on all the new tools 8) and john...........anything you write about is of great interest to myself and i would dare say just about everyone else that calls this place "home". keep the post com'in and i for one can't wait to see your first project with all this new tooling ;D

chuck

 

[pelallito]

John,
It isn't as much tool envy(although there is a little bit of that), as admiring the way it is coming together and getting organized. I need to go into my shop and sit there and see how I can clean it up and organize it.
Thanks again,
Fred

 

[Bogstandard]

Fred,

Over the years, I have become very lazy. So anything that reduces workload scores big smartie points with me. Nothing could be simpler, put the bits used on the machine by the machine. If it is used on two machines, put it between the two.

I am taking this opportunity to have a clear out, and get rid of items I have either never used, or have been superceded by later equipment. Visitors usually go away with a lot more than they expected.

When the going gets tough, my workshop usually ends up like a bombsite, bits and pieces and tools everywhere, but because everything has a place, it is easy to get back to normal. Put tools back from whence they came, recycle materials, sweep and clean up, done. Then start the mayhem all over again. Problems always arise if you don't do the highlighted bits between jobs.

John

 

[pelallito]

Fred,

Over the years, I have become very lazy. So anything that reduces workload scores big smartie points with me. Nothing could be simpler, put the bits used on the machine by the machine. If it is used on two machines, put it between the two.
I am doing some of that. At first it did not feel right, leaving tools close to the machines rather than putting them away in the tool boxes.

I am taking this opportunity to have a clear out, and get rid of items I have either never used, or have been superceded by later equipment. Visitors usually go away with a lot more than they expected.

I need to do that. I am a collector (pack rat) of all sorts of stuff.

When the going gets tough, my workshop usually ends up like a bombsite, bits and pieces and tools everywhere, but because everything has a place, it is easy to get back to normal. Put tools back from whence they came, recycle materials, sweep and clean up, done. Then start the mayhem all over again. Problems always arise if you don't do the highlighted bits between jobs.

The highlighted bits is where I get into trouble. Sometimes family obligations pull me out of the shop in the middle of something and it takes me a few hours/days to get back in there and complete what I was working on.

Thanks for the advice and help. I appreciate it very much, but I did not mean to hijack your thread.
Regards,
Fred

 

[Bogstandard]

Got a few more shots of the lathe bits while it is still in its box. Within the next couple of days, it will be moved onto its stand in the shop, then I can get to work on it.

I mentioned in an earlier post that some toolholders were missing and were on back order. Well they turned up this morning, so the order is now completed in full.

This is the suds tank that sits inside one of the stand cabinets. Welded up out of 1/8" steel plate with internal baffles and micro filters in the baffles, so no big bits should get to the centrifugal pump, plus there is a definite settlement area for sludge to collect. It looks about 1 gallon capacity. All in all, a very robust and well thought out unit.

This is the DRO unit that came with the lathe and is the standard high quality unit that Chester uses, unless those with deep pockets specify the fabulous Newall system. This one is for measuring saddle and crosslide travel. I will also be fitting an identical one that came off my mill, that will measure compound slide and tailstock.

A standard sort of Chinese tailstock, it has imp/met resettable scales on the handle, and the quill is marked up in imp/met as well. It has a camlock to lock the tailstock to the bed and the usual quill lock as well. Basic adjustment is provided for taper turning, and a couple of lube points on the top. I gave the spindle a real good shake, and no noticeable slop was encountered.
One thing I definitely don't like, it has no internal lock for an MT tang. This can cause problems when drilling large holes as the drill can turn in the taper. Also, you tend to lose a bit of working stroke on the ram, as it has to be extended before the length of the tang is taken account of. There is a quick cure, cut the tang off, but that then negates its use in equipment with a tang locking feature. A real minus point, and an area I just might have to make a fix for.

A large permanently engaged threading dial is fitted, and marked up slightly differently to the norm, but still very useable once I get used to it. This is different to the one I was shown pictures of, which had a very weird scaling setup, So it looks like someone has come to their senses, and fitting one that could easily be used.

The halogen lamp looks to be a good quality unit, with plenty of adjustment. It is mains fed to the head, then a transformer takes over and converts it into 12volts. A switch on the actual head rather than on the machine makes it easy to use.

Now to the saddle. I stated in an earlier post that it didn't have a saddle lock, well after a bit of searching, I found the cap screw that controls it, this is a prime candidate for putting a handle on, as I use the saddle lock a lot.
I have also shown a thing I mentioned before, paint overspray. A bit of care and attention could have prevented it.
All dovetails on the machine use tapered gibs, adjusted by a screw at either end, I really like this type of adjustment as you tend not to get tight spots in the slide action, as can happen with badly adjusted sidescrewed gibs.
As you can see, it has a half nut select handle and the top leadscrew is housed inside a protective spring casing to keep swarf off the leadscrew.
The middle handle controls the power to the crosslide, both fwds/rev. This gets its power from a dedicated power shaft, the middle one of the three.
The big red knob operates the bottom shaft and gives motor fwds/rev and off in the middle.
The apron has its own gearbox running in an oilbath.

This is the D1-4 chuck mount. I gives the chuck very accurate alignment onto a tapered spigot using a positive locking system, but like all chuck fixing, the area has to be kept scrupulously clean to avoid any misalignment. There is one slightly smaller than this, a D1-3, but a lot that are much larger. It is a standard for chuck fixing on larger lathes in the engineering community.

The fixed steady is a well made cast unit with individual arm friction screws and a screwed feed to the arms, very similar to the feed on a tailstock. The arms look to be PB or brass tipped. Also supplied is a travelling steady made to the same standard as this one.

The next shot shows the setup charts for the leadscrew and power shaft rates.

Setup chart for thread cutting.

Drop in numbers for the threading dial for each pitch of screw thread. I have yet to study them closely as there seems to be a few blank spaces that need to be understood.

I am a bit annoyed because these charts are not duplicated in the machine manual, so I will have to take some decent pics and get them printed and laminated, so the charts can be scrutinised when working at my bench.

So that's it basically, the next bits will be when I get to put a few mods on it when I get the machine inside the shop.
Then the fun really starts.

John

 

[BobWarfield]

Very nice looking lathe, I can see why you chose that one. Very solid, and looks to have some nice features.

Pity about that nasty yellow color. I'd have been happier if it were all cream colored. Fixes the overspray problem too.

I may have missed, but what's the spindle bore on that lathe?

Cheers,

BW

 

[Bogstandard]

Bob,

Spindle bore is 1.5".

There is nothing on the lathe up to this time that can't be put right. I have even had a look at the tailstock a few minutes ago, and it looks like the MT tang problem will be a simple mod.

John

 

[Divided He ad]

Well you haven't even commissioned your lathe yet John and I might need to ask you to chuck up a part for me!!! ;D


I've been sitting here this evening designing a few different bits, A small fun machining project, got that covered.
A display project.... not required just yet (got to build all the engines first!!!)

Then a machining mod.... Now here's where I need much larger capacity than my lathe....I don't fancy trying to make a 12" pulley on my 9x20!

No rush mind, it's probably the last part I'll need .... that gives it about 12months the speed I work at!!

I'll talk to you about it before I ever make the first part anyway.... Then you'll probably tell me that I'm crazy.... and I'll make it anyway :big:



I do like all those tooling bits... ENVY! ;D .... I do have the same type lamp however



Ralph.

 

[mklotz]

There is nothing on the lathe up to this time that can't be put right. I have even had a look at the tailstock a few minutes ago, and it looks like the MT tang problem will be a simple mod.

Couple of setscrews or pins through the TS spindle? I'll look forward to hearing of your solution since I need to do this on mine one of these days. I haven't yet done it because I haven't puzzled out a way to remove the pins should the tang twist and bend them.

I'm intrigued by the threading dial. I believe you said the leadscrew is metric yet the dial has the traditional eight divisions. On the indicator table, what does the "T" column (0,14,15,16) refer to?

It's also curious that it can't be disengaged from the leadscrew. I'm wondering if that is a requirement so that it can be used for both Imperial and metric threading.

I'm hoping that, once you sort it all out, you'll write one of your expert treatises on how the threading dial functions. For me it's mainly a matter of curiosity but for current and future readers who have the same or similar lathes, an expert explanation of this often misunderstood mechanism would be very valuable.

 

[Bogstandard]

Ralph,

No problems making your little bit, as long as you do a job for me, make me a 12" diameter ball for a little job I have in mind. :big: :big: :big:


Marv,

I am a little baffled by the screwcutting dial myself, and as far as I know, for me to cut imperial it isn't required, as it needs the permanently engaged half nuts technique coupled with machine reversal. That is why I am looking for plans for a retracting toolpost. All numbers for metric cutting are used, as it shows as such on the third threading chart. I have yet to find out what the 0, 14, 15 & 16 mean.
I tried to disengage the screwcutting dial but it was locked solid. Normally they just swing away. It didn't explore any further because I have seen larger machines with permanently coupled dials. Maybe there is something hidden, like I found with the saddle lock, that will release it. Once I get it out of the box, maybe then it will start to reveal it's secrets a little more. Maybe it has to be slid sideways to disengage, I will give it another dose of looking at tomorrow if I can find the time.

I took the ram out of the tailstock to have a look at it, and it has a replaceable threaded bush in the end, looks like bronze. I came up with two ideas straight away (see sketch), but both will require slight modification to the leadscrew length to have the MT self ejecting. Again, once I can get it in the shop and do an accurate measurement, things might become a little more difficult than envisioned.

If I can sort out the threading mysteries, I will definitely give you an update. If I can't, Chester UK will be getting a pupil for the day, for them to explain it to me.
The manual contains absolutely nothing about it.

John

 

[rake60]

I'm very anxious to see an experienced operators review of this lathes
performance. I've been looking at them ever since Seig first announced
their upper end "White and Blue" line of machines.

It's not yet available painted Grizzly green but as soon as it is, I'll be driving
to Muncy, PA to play with one!

It sure looks great from here!

Rick

 

[ksouers]

Rick,
These guys are in your neck of the woods.

http://precisionmatthews.com/index.html

And it looks like they carry this machine.

http://precisionmatthews.com/PM1236Lathe.html