Myford ML7 quick change tool
- Thread starter Speedy
- Start date
Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
canadianhorsepower
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,671
- Reaction score
- 324
I am unsure which would work for my lathe, what do I need to look for when choosing. I am guessing center heights vary and ability to fasten to the slide.
canadianhorsepower
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2011
- Messages
- 1,671
- Reaction score
- 324
it depend of the size of your lathe 9inch I think
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/tool-post-quick-change-set-of-17pcs.html
or this
http://www.busybeetools.com/products/tool-post-quick-change-for-12in-lathe.html
cheers
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,220
- Reaction score
- 1,285
centre height is 7". Check tool height above top of compound and decide on a suitable sized qctp.Then you will have to make a new stub shaft and fit to compound.Should not be too complicated
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,220
- Reaction score
- 1,285
Thats what i meant.The height from cline to top of compound is what matters
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2,361
- Reaction score
- 931
Here is another place reasonably close to you. Sometimes the prices are better but you have to factor they charge for shipping vs KBC 8.95 flat fee.
https://www.accusizetools.com/machine-tool-accessories/
Accu uses the AXA, BXA progressive sizing nomenclature, KBC uses the 102, 202 nomenclature but I suspect they are equivalent & probably interchangeable to the (Aloris) which is what they cloning. Don't hold me to it, just a reasonable hunch. I have KBC, made in China, good value IMO. The dovetails are decently ground & everything fits. My screws were complete crap but replacements are cheap.
If you are getting set up it might be worth buying one of the package sets, toolpost & toolholder combo's, but also consider your preferences. Might be better to pick & choose.
- They make the basic toolholder with flat bottom #1 or combo flat with V-groove #2 (useful for holding round shank tools).
- The parting blade toolholder is fine, I use it often (with HSS blades)
- The knurling tool is the 2-wheel push-in style which I don't like vs clamp style.
- I thought I would use the 1" ID holder for boring bars, but it ended up being a paperweight as my boring bars have flat shanks so I just use the regular holder
KBC usually has holiday sales so worth a call to inquire.
https://www.accusizetools.com/machine-tool-accessories/
Accu uses the AXA, BXA progressive sizing nomenclature, KBC uses the 102, 202 nomenclature but I suspect they are equivalent & probably interchangeable to the (Aloris) which is what they cloning. Don't hold me to it, just a reasonable hunch. I have KBC, made in China, good value IMO. The dovetails are decently ground & everything fits. My screws were complete crap but replacements are cheap.
If you are getting set up it might be worth buying one of the package sets, toolpost & toolholder combo's, but also consider your preferences. Might be better to pick & choose.
- They make the basic toolholder with flat bottom #1 or combo flat with V-groove #2 (useful for holding round shank tools).
- The parting blade toolholder is fine, I use it often (with HSS blades)
- The knurling tool is the 2-wheel push-in style which I don't like vs clamp style.
- I thought I would use the 1" ID holder for boring bars, but it ended up being a paperweight as my boring bars have flat shanks so I just use the regular holder
KBC usually has holiday sales so worth a call to inquire.
Thanks for the input everyone,
still thinking it through. was hoping someone could give first hand advise to what they ended up using on there myford.
need my hand held for this purchase for sure.
Petertha do you have a myford.
I just don't want to make an error in purchasing the wrong set up, like many I am budgeted
seems like any option I will have to make a stub shaft, don't really want to as I am unsure what to do but if need be.
still thinking it through. was hoping someone could give first hand advise to what they ended up using on there myford.
need my hand held for this purchase for sure.
Petertha do you have a myford.
I just don't want to make an error in purchasing the wrong set up, like many I am budgeted
seems like any option I will have to make a stub shaft, don't really want to as I am unsure what to do but if need be.
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2010
- Messages
- 2,361
- Reaction score
- 931
Sorry no I don't.
If its helpful, the way they all seem to work is: you get a rectangular steel baseplate blank (1) with the toolpost. Its pre-threaded for the threaded center post (2) also included. So you machine the plate to suit your compound, typically a T-slot. then plop the tool post on that & its clamped by the top nut. Hopefully that is like the Myford, but maybe a pic would help.
I think you should keep checking to confirm though. The swing typically means room over the lathe bed & that parameter by itself may not be the defining factor for which toolpost to pick. The issue is how high is the compound datum to spindle center. I just heard of this problem on 10"? swing lathe but even the smallest toolpost offered was not a good match. The cutting tools were still landed too high relative to center with tool holder bottomed out. In that case it was an offshore lathe (Busy Bee maybe?) but kind of an abnormally high compound elevation that just assumed the conventional 'block' toolpost supplied would reside their forever. I've seen 'other' toolposts on Myfords that make me suspicious that might be the case vintage wise, but best you measure & keep googling
mungalhead
Alan
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2015
- Messages
- 14
- Reaction score
- 1
Hi Speedy
I am not sure you know but Myford have started to produce lathes again and accessories, try RDG tools
Regards
Alan
I am not sure you know but Myford have started to produce lathes again and accessories, try RDG tools
Regards
Alan
I did some looking but I ended up purchasing from RDG a friend is visiting so I figured why not!
I didn't think to order tools for the holder, I guess I can pick those up locally I hope its not anything other then standard common sizes.
hoping for replaceable carbides? seems like the best idea.
any idea on what I would need
I didn't think to order tools for the holder, I guess I can pick those up locally I hope its not anything other then standard common sizes.
hoping for replaceable carbides? seems like the best idea.
any idea on what I would need
goldstar31
Well-Known Member
At the risk of severe criticism, might I again ask why? The only reason that someone starts to use carbide- be it brazed or screwed on a Myford 7 series lathe is because- well, they think that this is better or sneakily, because they cannot sharpen tools.
As you will have read, I've used my wallet spanner and bought yet another Myford and would mention that carbon or hss tools are what Myfords were designed to use the easily sharpened tools. Myfords are nice but a bit archaic( like me) but will do almost anything without the need for these new found gadgets called milling machines. Of, course, I have one and built one of first designed for home use- an honest Westbury when people here were a twinkling in their grandfather's eye!
Today, it is far simpler to fashion one's own tools and avoid all this mind boggling trying to decide what shape and grade and whatever that comes out of a packet and find, that the average carbide will snap like a carrot when used in a somewhat worn or badly worn just after WW2 lathe. Hss and carbon are far more forgiving and you get the shape that you want rather than something that was designed for CNC. Nothing wrong with CNC in its place and nothing wrong with carbides- in their place.
I've said that I've bought a 'new' old lathe and it has a QCTP as well a the old thing. Incidentally, the QCTP is streets ahead of the one from several suppliers and my once useful little boring thing from a guy who couldn't afford a whole Myford ML7 is going to be used. He went on to write the almost definitive book on Screwcutting and describes all sorts of materials for lathe tools- and does mention the dreaded carbides. However, take a deep breath, he made his living and his pension fund out of stuff he made- with non carbides.
Today, you don't need to build a Quorn or save up for a Clarkson grinder. I have both, incidentally. Today, I would settle for the contents of the scrap bin, a few bought out handles and a copy of Eccentric Engineerings Acute Tool and cutter grinding system and a cheap Double ended grinder from some imported rice eater. I probably have no intention of making one but bought and read the plans for £17 but prices perhaps from Oz might be different.
As a conclusion, you must accept that hss has its uses and - clears throat- you are using hss already-- as that is what most twist drills are made from.
Have a second think
Cheers
Norman
As you will have read, I've used my wallet spanner and bought yet another Myford and would mention that carbon or hss tools are what Myfords were designed to use the easily sharpened tools. Myfords are nice but a bit archaic( like me) but will do almost anything without the need for these new found gadgets called milling machines. Of, course, I have one and built one of first designed for home use- an honest Westbury when people here were a twinkling in their grandfather's eye!
Today, it is far simpler to fashion one's own tools and avoid all this mind boggling trying to decide what shape and grade and whatever that comes out of a packet and find, that the average carbide will snap like a carrot when used in a somewhat worn or badly worn just after WW2 lathe. Hss and carbon are far more forgiving and you get the shape that you want rather than something that was designed for CNC. Nothing wrong with CNC in its place and nothing wrong with carbides- in their place.
I've said that I've bought a 'new' old lathe and it has a QCTP as well a the old thing. Incidentally, the QCTP is streets ahead of the one from several suppliers and my once useful little boring thing from a guy who couldn't afford a whole Myford ML7 is going to be used. He went on to write the almost definitive book on Screwcutting and describes all sorts of materials for lathe tools- and does mention the dreaded carbides. However, take a deep breath, he made his living and his pension fund out of stuff he made- with non carbides.
Today, you don't need to build a Quorn or save up for a Clarkson grinder. I have both, incidentally. Today, I would settle for the contents of the scrap bin, a few bought out handles and a copy of Eccentric Engineerings Acute Tool and cutter grinding system and a cheap Double ended grinder from some imported rice eater. I probably have no intention of making one but bought and read the plans for £17 but prices perhaps from Oz might be different.
As a conclusion, you must accept that hss has its uses and - clears throat- you are using hss already-- as that is what most twist drills are made from.
Have a second think
Cheers
Norman
Norman,
To shorten your text a bit so that it is understandable, I think you have hit the nail on the head.
For 99% of work done on a lathe, HSS tooling will give better results on a small machine.
Without going into scientific detail, HSS cuts the metal whereas tungsten 'delaminates' or peels it off.
For smaller machines tungsten is the wrong way to go as it requires more power to get it to perform correctly (we are talking about replaceable tips now), brazed and sharpened carbide works very similar to HSS but unless it is used correctly, just chips badly.
I do use replaceable tips, but only because I have a machine than can give me the power to use them, but for lots of jobs, you still can't beat ground up HSS.
With reference to the original QCTP post.
Be careful what you decide upon as I have had to chop down the thickness of a couple of Myford topslides for other people because they couldn't get the tooltip low enough with the QCTP they had bought, which were the AXA type.
Once done, they had access to cheap holders etc. but normally, the slightly smaller Dickson type is the one people use over here.
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/s...IT-MYFORD--dixon-type--725MYFORD.html#SID=453
But even so, this toolholder will only allow you to use a 10mm tool below centre height, any larger and you have to do the chop job on the topslide.
Hope this helps
John
To shorten your text a bit so that it is understandable, I think you have hit the nail on the head.
For 99% of work done on a lathe, HSS tooling will give better results on a small machine.
Without going into scientific detail, HSS cuts the metal whereas tungsten 'delaminates' or peels it off.
For smaller machines tungsten is the wrong way to go as it requires more power to get it to perform correctly (we are talking about replaceable tips now), brazed and sharpened carbide works very similar to HSS but unless it is used correctly, just chips badly.
I do use replaceable tips, but only because I have a machine than can give me the power to use them, but for lots of jobs, you still can't beat ground up HSS.
With reference to the original QCTP post.
Be careful what you decide upon as I have had to chop down the thickness of a couple of Myford topslides for other people because they couldn't get the tooltip low enough with the QCTP they had bought, which were the AXA type.
Once done, they had access to cheap holders etc. but normally, the slightly smaller Dickson type is the one people use over here.
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/s...IT-MYFORD--dixon-type--725MYFORD.html#SID=453
But even so, this toolholder will only allow you to use a 10mm tool below centre height, any larger and you have to do the chop job on the topslide.
Hope this helps
John
Last edited:
goldstar31
Well-Known Member
Apologies for being somewhat long winded but it is better to quote a few references out of the hundreds of thousands of 'Myford' owners of the past.
Again, John, I agree, about the use of tipped tooling where rigidity and horse power are available. To be truthful, I was about to buy a bigger lathe at the Alli Pally but was tempted -on my way there.
Meantime, I totally agree with your additional comments and thank you for adding them
Regards
Norman
Again, John, I agree, about the use of tipped tooling where rigidity and horse power are available. To be truthful, I was about to buy a bigger lathe at the Alli Pally but was tempted -on my way there.
Meantime, I totally agree with your additional comments and thank you for adding them
Regards
Norman
Hi Norman
While you have good points I don't entirely agree with your position with respect to carbide tooling. Carbide has come a long ways in the last few years and the inserts have become highly specialized. Carbide can be useful on a small lathe even if it isn't desirable all the time.
So in general for a small lathe, especially one with a low RPM spindle, yes prefer HSS. HSS is cheap and flexible. However I wouldn't be without at least a couple of tools capable of taking inserts these days. Part of this has to do with interests beyond model engineering where the materials might not be friendly to HSS and part of it is due to not always wanting to sharpen stuff. I do a lot of woodworking and find myself spending a lot of time sharpening "things". Sometimes you simply get tired of it, I have two chisels right now waiting for a good sharpening.
Now I don't have much in the way of problems sharpening HSS for a lathe to cut nicely, it is just that sometime I'd rather get something done on the lathe. Maybe part of this comes from still working full time but I don't think modern carbide really deserves the bad reputation it seems to have. Sometimes it solves problems even if it is laziness.
While you have good points I don't entirely agree with your position with respect to carbide tooling. Carbide has come a long ways in the last few years and the inserts have become highly specialized. Carbide can be useful on a small lathe even if it isn't desirable all the time.
So in general for a small lathe, especially one with a low RPM spindle, yes prefer HSS. HSS is cheap and flexible. However I wouldn't be without at least a couple of tools capable of taking inserts these days. Part of this has to do with interests beyond model engineering where the materials might not be friendly to HSS and part of it is due to not always wanting to sharpen stuff. I do a lot of woodworking and find myself spending a lot of time sharpening "things". Sometimes you simply get tired of it, I have two chisels right now waiting for a good sharpening.
Now I don't have much in the way of problems sharpening HSS for a lathe to cut nicely, it is just that sometime I'd rather get something done on the lathe. Maybe part of this comes from still working full time but I don't think modern carbide really deserves the bad reputation it seems to have. Sometimes it solves problems even if it is laziness.
Wizard,
Carbide has come a long way in the last few years and the inserts have become highly specialized.
Very true.
Unfortunately NOT for model engineers.
What has happened, tooling manufacturers for model engineering have chosen a range of tips that they think we can use, then made holders to fit our machines.
Tips are designed for industrial purposes, not for model engineers, where a couple of dozen tips might be used each day on one machine, where one tip will usually last us for months.
They are developed to allow faster machining, either deeper cuts or faster machine speeds and feeds, and it is a minefield if you want to try to get the latest designs as some change qualities and designs almost daily.
We are most probably at least 2 years behind tip development in our world, maybe more, so there may be a few specialised ones that will start to appear over time, like ground tungsten tips for aluminium, which have raised their heads over the last couple of years. These have really allowed the small machine user to take advantage of replaceable carbide tipped tools as they act very similar to HSS, but of course, because they are a new type, more expensive, rather than the cheaper old hat 'moulded' tips which require more power to get them to perform correctly, and so are not really recommended for low power machines, even though the holder manufacturers make toolholders for even tiny machines, basically making small machine owners think that they are OK to use, but in fact, they most probably aren't.
If a small machine user really wants to try carbide tooling, then the really cheap brazed tip variety would be perfect, but they do need to be set up and used correctly, in fact, they are the only ones I use for single point internal and external threading, and by choosing the correct grade, I can get them for about a couple of pounds (3 bucks) each, mainly because they are very rarely used now, and I can easily resharpen them at least 3 or 4 times.
Don't forget that also there are ground HSS tips to fit a lot of these tungsten tipped holders. That is another bonus for small machine users.
John
Carbide has come a long way in the last few years and the inserts have become highly specialized.
Very true.
Unfortunately NOT for model engineers.
What has happened, tooling manufacturers for model engineering have chosen a range of tips that they think we can use, then made holders to fit our machines.
Tips are designed for industrial purposes, not for model engineers, where a couple of dozen tips might be used each day on one machine, where one tip will usually last us for months.
They are developed to allow faster machining, either deeper cuts or faster machine speeds and feeds, and it is a minefield if you want to try to get the latest designs as some change qualities and designs almost daily.
We are most probably at least 2 years behind tip development in our world, maybe more, so there may be a few specialised ones that will start to appear over time, like ground tungsten tips for aluminium, which have raised their heads over the last couple of years. These have really allowed the small machine user to take advantage of replaceable carbide tipped tools as they act very similar to HSS, but of course, because they are a new type, more expensive, rather than the cheaper old hat 'moulded' tips which require more power to get them to perform correctly, and so are not really recommended for low power machines, even though the holder manufacturers make toolholders for even tiny machines, basically making small machine owners think that they are OK to use, but in fact, they most probably aren't.
If a small machine user really wants to try carbide tooling, then the really cheap brazed tip variety would be perfect, but they do need to be set up and used correctly, in fact, they are the only ones I use for single point internal and external threading, and by choosing the correct grade, I can get them for about a couple of pounds (3 bucks) each, mainly because they are very rarely used now, and I can easily resharpen them at least 3 or 4 times.
Don't forget that also there are ground HSS tips to fit a lot of these tungsten tipped holders. That is another bonus for small machine users.
John
goldstar31
Well-Known Member
From my little place in the Firmament, I don't think that any carbide tool manufacturer is going to go into his bank manager and is going to plead with him to borrow money to develop a product expressly for some few people that have machinery that would not have been out of place when the Communists in 1917 murdered a guy with an ornamental turning lathe. Yup, that is the history book, the tsar has a Holzapffell which was vastly superior to my pair of tatty Myfords. Let's get real. That is where we or most of us have reached. All we have really, is an electric motor which wasn't designed for lathes but for the good lady to wash dirty overalls.
My approach might not be the usual one but to the rest of the planet, that's us. Me, I enjoy fiddling about with dirty finger nails but as a career, the only one that turns me on is getting my cheque paid in every month end for the last 31 years. The others, less fortunate, I have every sympathy but ask them to keep on getting my cheques as of old. My thanks, fellas. I'm glad that the orange juice paid for from my taxes then, has paid handsomely
Cheers
Norman
My approach might not be the usual one but to the rest of the planet, that's us. Me, I enjoy fiddling about with dirty finger nails but as a career, the only one that turns me on is getting my cheque paid in every month end for the last 31 years. The others, less fortunate, I have every sympathy but ask them to keep on getting my cheques as of old. My thanks, fellas. I'm glad that the orange juice paid for from my taxes then, has paid handsomely
Cheers
Norman
Niels Abildgaard
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2010
- Messages
- 549
- Reaction score
- 101
A friend has a Myford and I have made him a Tangential holder using 3 mm round carbide .It is used next to everytime and regrinding on a silicium carbide wheel is less than a minute.Picture shows a Crobalt square bitt but method is valid for 3 mm round carbide as well.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZvs_4cADZ8[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZvs_4cADZ8[/ame]
goldstar31
Well-Known Member
Michael,
Although these comments are not really about simply QCPT, they are probably useful as you have a Myford and probably a bit new to the business.
So might I suggest that you Google for the old web site of a Chris Heapy which wwas resurrected by a worker- whose name, I forget. Frankly, I think that the comments will answer a lot of problems.
If you like what you read, why not post for others to enjoy.
Me, I'm in and out of hospital so I'm rather busy
Regards
Norman
Although these comments are not really about simply QCPT, they are probably useful as you have a Myford and probably a bit new to the business.
So might I suggest that you Google for the old web site of a Chris Heapy which wwas resurrected by a worker- whose name, I forget. Frankly, I think that the comments will answer a lot of problems.
If you like what you read, why not post for others to enjoy.
Me, I'm in and out of hospital so I'm rather busy
Regards
Norman
