Mill Questions

[tmuir]

I'm going to have to do some more night work tonight and since I've already done heaps of overtime this month I've decided to treat myself to a mini-mill.
I am thinking about getting the HM-10

http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Products?stockCode=M150

To be honest I've never used a mill before and don't know a great deal about them and I'm looking for some advice on what else to get to start off with.

I know I need to replace the chuck with something better and I believe there are a few differnt ways to go here and I'm looking for advice.

I also will need to make / buy clamps to hold the work peace down and obviously some cutters.
But is there any tips people could give me before I go off and spend my hard earnt cash or good web sites people could direct me to?

Thanks

Tony

 

[Cedge]

Tony
That one is a typical Sieg X2 mini mill. I've used one up until just recently and it is pretty good for what it is. You can do quite a bit with it, but it's not a real heavy cutter. It did everything I asked as long as I asked within it's performance envelope. I recently upgraded to it's big brother the SX3 and I still find myself using the little fellow for second operations.

Like any Sieg machine, you'll need to clean things up a bit and tweak it some.

Recommended mods would be a belt drive kit, an extended Z gear rack and DRO's when you can swing it. A power feed is also something no one has yet regretted adding.

I found that I use a screwless vise more than the clamps, but the clamps are almost a requirement. They sell cheaply so it's probably not worth making a set. The step blocks would be a little tricky for a novice to keep uniform anyway.

If you can find it.... I'd recommend the R-8 spindle design over the MT3. Mine is MT3 and after using this new machine with the R-8 spindle, I'm solidly sold on it. It's so much easier to remove.

Watch Ebay (seller 800Watt) for an ER style collet set for which ever spindle you wind up with. It makes one heck of a difference in machining operations.

Steve

 

[greenie]

Tony, seeing as you come from down under and your looking at buying the X2 from scary forbes, then make sure that you get the MT3 spindle.
If you get the R-8 spindle, you will have to pay through the nose for ALL the extras that you will want/need.
Talk to the counter hops at scary forbes and they can show you the difference in price for the bits and the availability of them as well.
Take it from somebody who works in the trade here in Aust, there are a heck of a lot more secondhand MT3 bits than the R-8 available in Aust.
Over in the states, it's the other way around, lot's of R-8 and few MT3 stuff.
One thing that you should avoid using on this mill AT ALL COSTS, is a FLY CUTTER, reason I say this, there are three PLASTIC gears in the head of these machines. Fly cutting is very hard on these plastic gears, it takes no time at all, for one of these plastic gears to break. If you reckon you can handle a fly cutter, go buy one, but at the same time, buy the complete set of plastic gears 'cause your gunna break one of 'em by using the fly cutter. You'll soon learn where all the bits are in the machine, 'cause you'll soon have it apart for repairs. How do I know, been there and done that!

When you know what the machine is capable of doing, by all means start on the mods, as it will then become a nice machine to work with, so long as you know it's limitations and work within that envelope.

All the recommendations by CEDGE are very practical and worth doing as money permits.

Go join one of the yahooligans groups on these milling machines, lots of 'experts' who will tell you where to go and what to do when you get there.
Some times there are pearls of wisdom floating around these sites, but you gotta sort thru all the crud to find them pearls.

regards greenie

 

[tmuir]

I like the look of those mods Steve but does anyone know if they can be purchased in OZ as postage costs could be expensive from the US.

Bit disappointing that fly cutters will strip the gears, I guess that's a good excuse to go belt drive.

 

[tel]

That's the way to go - I converted mine to belt drive a couple of months back and it's a whole different machine.

 

[tmuir]

That's the way to go - I converted mine to belt drive a couple of months back and it's a whole different machine.

Where did you get the belt drive from?

Was it here?
http://www.stirlingsteele.com/beltdrive.html

I'm assuming the HM-10 doesn't just look the same as the X2 but is the same.

 

[greenie]

I like the look of those mods Steve but does anyone know if they can be purchased in OZ as postage costs could be expensive from the US.

Bit disappointing that fly cutters will strip the gears, I guess that's a good excuse to go belt drive.

You'll just have to fork out for postage for some things, others you will be able to do yourself.
Belt drive is one example of do it yourself and does it improve things.
Now two ways for belt drive, first, the easy way is you just belt drive the top of the machine, that's direct from the motor to the gear spindle and leave the two plastic gears in the high/low range, the other way is to eliminate the plastic gears in the high/low altogether, choice is yours with that lot.

Fly cutters wont strip the full belt mod, but, and remember the but, if you continue to stop/stall/crash the motor by tripping out the overload protection, the main control board will **** itself. That'll cost you about a hundred and forty AUST bucks to replace, so if you really want to use a fly cutter, then small cuts are in order to preserve the life of the machine.

Go join a couple of the yahoo groups and scour the "FILES SECTIONS", lots of valuable info for free.

regards greenie

 

[whatsit]

The belt drive is a great addition but if you want to save the cash and do it yourself
here is a homemade version.

http://warhammer.mcc.virginia.edu/t...l/Projects-Mods/DriveBeltMod/MillBeltMod.html

That link is from this page http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/Main/mini-mill.htm
Alot of good info on the X2 mills.

As far as the flycutter I have used them frequently on my X2 and with light cuts and sharp toolbits
they do a great job. I also use a face mill with carbide inserts. The finish is very good.

Hope this helps.

Kevin F

 

[ianjkirby]

Hi Tony,
With respect for Greenie's views, I wouldn't dismiss R8 spindles so quickly. R8 tools are held in place with a draw bolt (all R8 tools are tapped already), and they will not come loose. When you wish to change tools, removing the drawbolt will allow a simple withdrawal of the tool. MT tooling relies on its taper for holding, and this has two drawbacks in my opinion. One, if not secured by a drawbolt, they can, and do, come loose in the spindle, and can crash into the workpiece, with obvious results. Two, the tightness of the taper makes it essential to hammer the top of the tool to get it out of the spindle. This is no big deal by itself, but it goes against my grain to so treat a machine tool, no matter how cheap. Try to find examples of both in use, and ask the operators, if you can, for their opinions.
Regards, Ian Kirby.

 

[tel]

Where did you get the belt drive from?

Was it here?
http://www.stirlingsteele.com/beltdrive.html

I'm assuming the HM-10 doesn't just look the same as the X2 but is the same.

Made it, took some bits of aluminium and cut off everything that didn't look like a belt drive ;D Also scratch built a table drive.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/95582559@N00/sets/72157594555315453/

 

[Bogstandard]

Does the X2 have a slot in the side of the quill for using a wedge to remove MT tooling?

If it doesn't, I personally would treat the MT tapered quill like it had the plague, and go for the R8 option. To belt the crap out of a machine, even if it is with say a soft blow hammer, is no way to get it to stay accurate and reliable. The little extra that you pay for the R8 tooling will more than repay itself in the long run.

If it does have a removal slot, no problems. Just invest in a 2MT removal wedge costing a few $.

John

 

[tmuir]

Thanks everyone.
Think I will go with HM-10 (OZ X2 machine) and change to a belt drive but will probably buy the kit from the US as still being a newbie at all this the thought of me hacking my new machine scares me, would rather pay a bit more and have it made for me at the moment.
Would love the X3 but its not so much the cost but the weight that is a problem for me.
The last 8 meters or so to my workshop is down a sloping (in two directions dirt track to my workshop) which with help I just managed to get my 90kg lathe down, don't fancy my chances of getting a 165kg mill down it but a 65kg one will be fine.

Still need to investigate the different spindles a bit more closely though before I decide on what to do there. I'm off back to work now to pay for the Mill.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Bit disappointing that fly cutters will strip the gears, I guess that's a good excuse to go belt drive.

Tmuir
I purchased my seig 2 from micromark Fall of 2001 in MT#3 taper I would have preferred the R-8 but that is what was carried at the time. I bought a vise and a collet set along with it. I picked it up at there show room. Either by care ,some small miracle or not doing as much work as some others with it it ran for 6 years with out stripping gears. One of my favorite tools is the fly cutter.
I have installed the stirling steele belt mod purchased from LMS.
the belt drive does several things
1) no more broken gears ,not an issue for me
2) cuts way down on noise with the standard gates belt
(I am currently testing a belt from a sewing machine a buddy gave me a little noisier than the gates but still quieter than the gears.
3) Better finish I think there may be two reasons for this one tends to use higher spindle rpms with the belt mod and less vibration.
One thing that i have done that has saved lots of aggravation is adding a dial indicator to the z axis for milling. actually it is on a mag mount stuck on when needed.
The one major downfall of the x2 is the lack any real control of the z axis feed when milling. Just loosening an tightening the z- axis lock easily produces a .005 feed I often just wiggle the z axis lock for the feed I need. This downfall may account for the reported broken gears while using fly cutters. So a Z axis dro would be a worth while addition addition.
Maintenance Issues I have had
broken axis locks a spare set would be handy .
Or make a set out of aluminum or steel the originals ar pot metal.
Actually a typical material for machine handle or cast some pot metal melts at a fairly low temp
dry rot of bellow style way protector and worn out cooling fan lasted 6 years.
Hope this info helps your decision
tin

 

[Bernd]

Here's another mode for the X2 for those of you that have standard instead of metric lead screws. I did it to mine. One of these days I'm going to change over to a belt drive also. Have gone through 2 gear sets already (both the upper set and lower set).

Here's the link to my web page of the change over to a 20tpi lead screw from a 16tpi lead screw.

http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/MachineShop/minimill/minimill.htm

Bernd

 

[tel]

In all truth I don't think H&F offer the HM10 in R8 - I've certainly never seen or heard of one. They used to carry the imperial version as well as the metric. but seem to have dropped that in recent years as well, when I went for mine they only stocked 'em in metric.

No John, there's no wedge slot on 'em. You just have to use a bit of restraint when tightening the drawbar & when removal time comes around lock up everything in sight before tapping with a copper hammer. No need to whale the crap out of it, a series of lightish taps with a heavyish hammer will achieve the same result with less risk.

 

[firebird]

Hi

I have just bought the x3 mill with r8 and can reccomend it. I got it from Arc eurotrade (usual disclaimer) who is one of the main importers/suppliers of sieg kit. They run their own workshop for prep/mods/ spares etc. They no longer stock or supply the x2. Ketan, the owner is a very helpful bloke. I suggest you Email him and ask why not? Their web site is www.arceurotrade.co.uk. You can contact him from there.

Cheers

 

[tmuir]

In all truth I don't think H&F offer the HM10 in R8 - I've certainly never seen or heard of one. They used to carry the imperial version as well as the metric. but seem to have dropped that in recent years as well, when I went for mine they only stocked 'em in metric.

I noticed last night that Carbatec sells it with the R8 option but at $200 more for their floor price I don't think I will be getting it there. Also the Hare & Forbes catalogue shows it with an air spring already fitted, Carbatec doesn't. So I gues I will be getting it with the 3MT.

 

[Cedge]

Tony
You might want to inquire about price matching or even see if they will negotiate a better price. With things tightening up a bit in the economy, you just might find them receptive to a price break. The worst that can happen it they say no. It worked for me when I approached Travers Tool about buying my new mill.

Steve

 

[bob ward]

Speak of the devil! R8 collets on Australian ebay at the moment.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/R8-COLLETS-6...yZ105830QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[tmuir]

Tony
You might want to inquire about price matching or even see if they will negotiate a better price. With things tightening up a bit in the economy, you just might find them receptive to a price break. The worst that can happen it they say no. It worked for me when I approached Travers Tool about buying my new mill.

Steve

I wouldn't hold my breath as I asked them once before if they would price match and they got huffy and puffy that there Chinese Lathes were of better quality than most and that's why the cost more. Also Western Australia is still in the middle of an economic boom at the moment thanks to China.