4 jaw chuck for Grizzly 9X19...

[Metal Butcher]

Well, I'm back to report that the second back plate was finished up without any problems. All that's left to do on the 6" chuck is to de-burr and polish the sharp corners, clean and oil or grease, and add rubber disc's to the back of adjusting screw keepers. The bolts that came with this one seem long enough. This is one massive chuck compared to the 4" 3-jaw I'm used to. I'll probably use the 4" 4-jaw more often than the this 6" that was purchased 'just in case', and due to its reasonable price.

Below is a shot of the lathe showing the size of the 6" chuck. I turned on the lathe to take the chuck on a test spin and it tracks like a pro mounted it. I'm very pleased with the results so far. The toughest one is still ahead, with a lot of needed machining. I think a mask will be needed to avoid breathing in the 'dust' that's created cutting the cast iron. Wow, what a messy and dirty job!

Look at the card board behind the lathe. I didn't remove all the oil when I took the chuck apart for inspection, thinking I would do a thorough job after de-burring. I have a splatter of oil that starts below my waist and ends in my hair! And I just took a shower yesterday! looks like its gonna be two showers this week. ;D

I was going to ask what type of oil every one uses on their chucks but I think I'll pass! :big:

The difference between the two sizes can be seen below. It looks like a picture of 'father and son'.

-MB

 

[1hand]

Great job MB, I still haven't done mine yet. Got big case of the lazies this weekend. Should be wrapping up our winter maintenance this week at work and will be laid off for a couple months. Will tackle mine here the end of the week and maybe get started on a project too.

Matt

 

[Deanofid]

I don't know if you were typing fast, or if I was reading fast, Rick, but it sounds like you're pretty chuffed about the job. You otter be!

Was a few years back first time I did this, but the job came out very well, and I remember thinking "that's almost like being a machinist, or something".
It's a satisfying job. You'll be reminded of it every day. Neat, huh?

For chuck oil.. I just wipe a light coat of 30wt on the screws, jaws etc. Light coat, as in barely enough. I don't want to wear any more of it than I have to! Taking a shower runs up the hot water bill!

; )

Good on ya. Have fun.

Dean

 

[Metal Butcher]

Finally! All three back plates are finished! Machining the third back plate was miserable compared to the first two from LMS. That one was marked 'India' and was really rough. It was more like cast steel than cast iron. It had remaining scale, and the threaded bore was not concentric with the outer diameter. Fortunately the spindle side face was perpendicular. I machined every surface except that face. And cutting it was really tough. Probably the toughest stuff I'v ever machined including stainless and cold rolled steel. I wiped out the HSS cutter that completed both of the first two plates before I got half way through machining out the threads for the register. It actually ground off a good amount of the cutter before I knew what was happening. I dulled five (5) carbide tool bits before finishing the largest outside diameter. I was able to finish up with a three point index able carbide insert, and all three edges are done. The picture of the chips below was taken at the half way point, and the other half of the chips are on me and the floor. The chips came of burning hot and at times sparks were flying.

If I knew before hand how much work and trouble this "brand" of back plate would be, I would have thrown it out and ordered another 6" one from LMS. They are the 'good stuff' that machines like Durabar round stock. And most of the major machining is already done.

I didn't mean to 'carry on' like a lunatic, and that was the short version, but at least I got it off my chest. :

There was no need to do any lay out or transfer screw method. Just a simple marking with a transfer punch zeroed out on the mill to drill and tap for the three mounting bolts.

I did the quick-and-dirty to drill and tap the holes. I would recommend clamping the work piece down to the milling table. I was very careful to avoid tilting the work piece with the down ward pressure of drilling.

To the left of the tap you can see the remaining scale. To get to the bottom of it I would have had to remove material equal to half the thickness of the register.

I mounted the chuck on the lathe to check the run-out. The body of the chuck shows it out .001". This is very puzzling since the register and the outer diameter of the back plate shows a maximum of .0001" run-out. I checked this several times just to be sure. The bore for the collets shows run-out to be between .00025" and .0003". Not very thrilling figures I'd say for what this chuck cost. It may turn out that this is a work in progress, unless I can be convinced that I should be happy.

Now the 'real work' begins to clean up the aftermath of this project!
Any volunteers? Cold beer here! :big:

-MB

 

[ksouers]

Is there a lathe hiding somewhere under that mound of chips?

Just a suggestion, have you tried tapping the chuck into submission with a dead blow? Or is it already the best you can get it?

Otherwise things still look great. Even at .0003 it's about as good as I get with MT3 collets.

 

[Metal Butcher]

Is there a lathe hiding somewhere under that mound of chips?

Just a suggestion, have you tried tapping the chuck into submission with a dead blow? Or is it already the best you can get it?

Otherwise things still look great. Even at .0003 it's about as good as I get with MT3 collets.

Hi Kevin. I haven't tried taking a hammer to it yet. Although after six hours of machining its a tempting idea! ;D

Seriously tho, I thought about it earlier, and since the chuck is a press fit I didn't think it could work. The instruction manual calls for a "push fit" which it is, and all the register surfaces including the outer diameter are between .0000 to .0001" run-out. I haven't tried any collets.

-MB

 

[ksouers]

The only other suggestion would be to rotate it around to the other holes to see if it improves or gets worse.
It just might have a sweet spot.

It's a pain, I know...

 

[Metal Butcher]

Thanks Kevin. Those are two very good ideas you presented and one of them or both should work.
For the moment I need to back away for a bit, and consider any and all information that's posted by members that have and use a collet chuck.

Its just boggles my mind that the backing plate runs true proving at least at the moment that the collet chuck may be the culprit.

Its a Bison brand chuck....Boggles my mind.

-MB

 

[Powder keg]

Could there be a burr on one of the taped holes in the back plate? Sometimes if the corner is to square on the chuck, it might hit the corner of the pilot on the back plate. Also, .0003 TIR isn't bad. Do you have any projects that HAVE to be that close? I know. You think like me. "Aim small, miss small"

 

[Metal Butcher]

Could there be a burr on one of the taped holes in the back plate? Sometimes if the corner is to square on the chuck, it might hit the corner of the pilot on the back plate. Also, .0003 TIR isn't bad. Do you have any projects that HAVE to be that close? I know. You think like me. "Aim small, miss small"

They stepped out the back side of the bolt holes on the chuck to compensate for this type of problem. However I took a light cut after drilling and taping just to be sure.

I would like to be able to machine all the important parts of my builds concentric to within .0001".

That would be my reason for using a collet chuck. I thought that .0001" or less was the accuracy a collet chuck would offer.

-MB

 

[Metal Butcher]

Good news all, I found the problem. The chuck accuracy readings are now about .0001".

I noticed the the readings were eratic and didn't make sense. I cleaned the taper with lacquer thinner and put a thin coat of oil on it and now the reading is much better. compounding the high original readings of between .00025 and .0003 is the small ball on the indicator and the unstable set up. The ball was catching on a thin unknown residue, and the ground surface which may have added a sort of stick-slip climb to the ball end of the indicator on the inner radius. My stop start way of rotating the chuck with one hand became another additional factor that could have been causing or adding to the 'climb'.

I now feel much better about the chuck and its ridicules price, but now I'm concerned that the collet quality I have may become another issue. :

When will it end. "Honey... I need to buy some collets." ;D

-MB

 

[rake60]

Nice work MB!

Your run out tests are very impressive.
I human hair varies from .0015 to .002 inches in diameter.
Coming from a working shop environment, I have been told that certain red hairs
are even finer than that. I can neither prove nor disprove that claim.
At any rate, if a hair's width will make a difference in a hobby machined fit,
other than a bearing fit, I'm in trouble here!

If you can throw a hair through the gap caused by a chuck error, that is
a bad thing.

Congratulations on the chuck mountings and the final run out results!

There was no doubt in my mind that you would be able to get it that close.

Rick

 

[Deanofid]

Good going, MB. I knew you would do well at this.

I can't imagine what there would be on any model you've built that would need being made to a tenth of a thou, but if you've got it, great! Now there's no way around taking all the blame yourself! ; )

Keep having fun.

Dean

 

[Metal Butcher]

Good going, MB. I knew you would do well at this.

I can't imagine what there would be on any model you've built that would need being made to a tenth of a thou, but if you've got it, great! Now there's no way around taking all the blame yourself! ; )

Keep having fun.

Dean

It'll come in handy by creating a near zero starting point. It doesn't necessarily mean my parts must or will be be machined within a .0001" tolerance. It just means that I'm looking for an easier way to make parts that are a little better than in the past using my one and only, inaccurate 4" 3 jaw chuck. The packing nuts on a piston rod are a good example were a hexagonal collet will simplify making a good fitting part. Drilling and threading a piston for a captive rod can cause a problem if its off a bit. Turning a concentric step on a precising ground rod for a crank disc becomes less of a hit miss proposition. A collet can aid in turning a concentric cylindrical spigot on square stock with the use of a square collet.

Do ya see me point. "Honey" did. :big:

-MB

 

[Metal Butcher]

It didn't take long for my first need and use of the 5C collet chuck. I used it to reduce the length of a 5/8" bushing down to a 1/2".

A few previos attempts at this on other projects ended with the cutter grabbing the crumbly slithered bronze bushing material and crushing it in the 3-jaw chuck.

-MB ;D

 

[Metal Butcher]

Good news for any one thinking about buying one of these inexpensive 4-jaw independent chuck from one of the supplier links I posted earlier on this thread.

The jaws tighten up smooth enough, and surprisingly well. I was able to 'dial in' a workpiece to within .0002" (that's tenths!) within a few minutes! I'm flabbergasted!

The 'Shars' medallion fell of one chuck and the other one was missing, big deal who cares. The residual glue that held them on came right off with my finger nail. I imagine their falling off before being packed for shipment at the factory. I was going to machine a thin brass disc with my initials to fill in the machined recess until an idea struck. I'm taking 'Old Abe' along for a ride on my machining adventures. :big:

I'm thrilled with the performance of this chuck, and glad I bought it.

-MB

 

[gbritnell]

Hi Rick, congratulations on your fit with the 5c chuck. Bison tools are usually pretty decent. I bought a chuck, (import from Ebay) and got all my numbers within about .0005, backing plate and collet taper but each collet that I mount in it varies on accuracy. There's probably a difference between 'good' collets and 'cheap' collets but I'm not going to spend the extra money to find out. My worst collet is probably out a tick over .001 so I can live with that. The only way to have it 'dead on' is to buy a 5c set true chuck and I don't even want to go there.
As a side note, I enjoyed talking machining with you the previous week. I'm sorry I didn't get back to you this past week, too many things came up. I'll give you a call this coming week and we can set something up for me to see your shop.
George

 

[Metal Butcher]

Hi George.I have a partial set of inexpensive collets that will have to do for the time being and subject to checking their accuracy. I doubt that I'll consider replacing any unless there is a real bad one. I looked at the set-true Bison and don't feel the need due to its high cost. Kind of the 'Pearls Before Swine" thing for a rookie of my caliber. I really enjoyed visiting your shop last week and seeing your vast and amazing collection of work. It was overwhelming to say the least. No need to apologize, I realize your plate is very full. When you feel a need to break away and visit just give me a call.

-MB

 

[D0ZX]

MB
How's that 6" 4 jaw chuck holding up for you? Any problems?

 

[Metal Butcher]

MB
How's that 6" 4 jaw chuck holding up for you? Any problems?

So far so good. No problems to report. I wish I could afford to spend $300 to $400 more and have the nice looking Bison brand chucks in my shop, but then the two chucks would add up to the cost of my 9x20 lathe. Since each jaw is adjusted independently, accuracy concerns are not a factor as far as I'm concerned. The surface finish inside and out is about average import quality, a non issue as far as I'm concerned. The chuck's do what their supposed to do, and that was the objective. If you find another reasonably priced brand or source please post your findings.

The ones I have are Shars brand available on E-Bay, and direct from CDCO.

-MB