x2 taper removal help.

[Speedy]

I am happy to say I have finally started an engine after years of participating on the forum.

now I am at the point where I need to use my milling machine to finnish up my engine and I forgot I still cant take the chuck out of my x2 mill with MT3 taper.

can anyone post a picture of what I am supposto smack with a rubber mallet? I have smacked the daylights out of my mill with no luck.

plan on taking the head to work to press the part out, but I dont want to start pressing the wrong things on our 20 ton press :fan:

please help!

 

[ruzzie]

Loosen the draw bar a few turns then whack the top of the draw bar with a hammer, Don't use a rubber mallet it won't transmit enough force.
You might find something in this thread also
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f26/how-do-you-unstick-stuck-morse-taper-x2-mill-4407/

 

[Anko]

In other words, get out the drawbar, put some adecuate steel bar in the place of the drawbar and hit it with a hammer (a steel hamer, not a sotf one) ultil it drop out, after some serius hits you should check your bearings as can take some damage form the smashing.

If the chuck don´t want to come out after this, you will need to remove the spindle from the housting and try a pulley extractor.

Hope to help

Saludos

 

[lensman57]

Hi Speedy,
At the top of the quill there is a black plastic cap which is protecting the draw bar, remove this cap and then you'd see the draw bar. Squirt some Wd40 after removing the draw bar into the hole and leave for a a while to let it penetrate. Screw the draw bar back or insert a brass or mild steel bar of slightly larger diameter in the hole so it sits atop of the Tool arbor. Lock the head, Z axis, and then while supporting the head with one hand, hold the chuck, give the brass or steel bar a very sharp blow with a brass hammer or similar, brass does not slip but steel does, this should lossen the arbour, once out you should totaly clean the quill MT and the arbour. After you have inserted a new arbor do not over tighten the draw bar, I usually tighten it by hand and then turn it just a little bit more with a wrench so I feel it is bitting. This makes it a lot easier to remove the arbor next time and is secure.

Regards,

A.G

 

[Speedy]

still isnt coming out. will a hydraulic press be alright to use?

 

[lensman57]

Hi speedy,
I would try and use the best anti rust or peneterating oil that you could find and soak it for a day and then try again before taking more drastic action. You may also wish to use a bearing puller if possible before going to the press.

Regards,

A.G

 

[Hopefuldave]

Evening Speedy,

If there's a groove / undercut you can locate into on the chuck arbor, I and others have had success with chuck wedges as in my post here - make the wedges' slots fit the arbor as closely as you can! (and excuse the crap-o-cad):
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,6881.75.html

If not, you're going to have to arrange something to press the arbor out *while supporting the spindle* - so f'rinstance, a hefty plate with a hole the arbor can pass through against the bottom of the spindle, a hefty plate bearing onto a hefty rod inside the spindle (to force the arbor out of the taper), a pair of Big Bolts or studding pulling the two hefty plates together (assuming you can't get it done at work!) - a pair of M16 bolts / studs can easily put something like 5 tons of force onto the stuck taper - with the wedges this goes up to around 60 tons...

Make the hole for the arbor to pass through a fairly close fit, the rod in the spindle too, as the last thing you want is something bending...

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)

 

[kellswaterri]

Is it possible for you to gently heat the quill while keeping the chuck cold... that worked for me when my 2/3 shell taper got stuck.
John.

 

[Speedy]

having a difficult time picturing all that.
any images?

I did take the head off the mill after soaking it with WD 40 for the longest time, just wont penetrate the taper. I am going to try the 20 ton press at work but only use my finger to pump the bottle jack to not harm anything. if it gets past that I dont know what to do.

Evening Speedy,

If there's a groove / undercut you can locate into on the chuck arbor, I and others have had success with chuck wedges as in my post here - make the wedges' slots fit the arbor as closely as you can! (and excuse the crap-o-cad):
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,6881.75.html

If not, you're going to have to arrange something to press the arbor out *while supporting the spindle* - so f'rinstance, a hefty plate with a hole the arbor can pass through against the bottom of the spindle, a hefty plate bearing onto a hefty rod inside the spindle (to force the arbor out of the taper), a pair of Big Bolts or studding pulling the two hefty plates together (assuming you can't get it done at work!) - a pair of M16 bolts / studs can easily put something like 5 tons of force onto the stuck taper - with the wedges this goes up to around 60 tons...

Make the hole for the arbor to pass through a fairly close fit, the rod in the spindle too, as the last thing you want is something bending...

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)

 

[django]

Is it possible for you to gently heat the quill while keeping the chuck cold... that worked for me when my 2/3 shell taper got stuck.
John.

+1 For this, try and get the heat in as quickly as possible. This means using an oxy-propane pepper pot burner ideally for a very short time (5 or 10 seconds) as opposed to using a plumbers blow torch until it turns blue after 10 minutes, if you get what I mean. Then quickly (with the quill locked up as tightly as possible) hit the draw bar (that has been screwed in a good few turns as to not damage the threads) with a firm/hard blow from a 2lb hammer. If it doesn't happen straight away (after 5 or 6 hits) walk away and repeat when cold. After it comes out clean both tapers up with fine scotch brit and make sure both internal an external tapers are clean and give them a squirt of WD40 or equivalent in future.

 

[bazzz]

Speedy,

I have used "Kroil" for stuck parts before with great success.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000F09CF4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It is highly flamable so be careful if you start heating after you have oiled it down. Good Luck,

 

[mcostello]

Sometimes the drawbar needs a substantial wack ,way beyond expectations with a medium size hammer.

 

[chucketn]

Speedy,
be sure to tell us if you get the taper out.
I have R8 on my mill, and I use an ancient hard plastic faced hammer that was my Dad's to pop tapers loose.

Chuck

 

[Speedy]

yep got it out, took a 20 ton hydraulic press (partly because that was the only press at work)
the taper let loose so dang loud! my poor bolt that holds the taper in bent from all the force.
so now im out a bolt and looking for another.

all seems fine, if the bearings are gone (spin good by hand) I will replace them.

untill I source another bolt no progress on my engine

 

[Maryak]

Easiest is a piece of threaded rod with 4 nuts, 2 locked to give the correct height and 2 locked at the top for doing and undoing. I have 3 which gives me a range to match the different threads in various things like drill chuck, end mill autolock and collet chuck.

Also you don't need to really lean on a draw bar, just tighten it enough to stop the taper from spinning.

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob

 

[jtrout13]

My X2 has R8 taper, but essentially the same. Like has been said, when installing chucks/endmill holders/etc, just tighten by hand and maybe 1/4 turn with the wrench to get it tight. Make sure your taper is clean of chips and such. I've used all kinds of milling machines, and if properly maintained, when you have a tool in the spindle you should be able to fully unscrew the drawbar, pull the drawbar out about 3 inches and then drop the drawbar back down. The end of the drawbar will smack the top of the tool and knock it loose (obviously hold the tool in the other hand so it won't fall.)

Even on my X2 the drawbar seems to have enough mass that I can just lift it up a few inches, drop it, and the tool always comes right out. Saves a lot of time and preserves tram on the mill since you're not wacking on it with a hammer. In my experience MT tapers are more "sticky" than a R8, so your mileage may vary. However, if you're intent on using a hammer, get a small "dead blow" type.

 

[Speedy]

thanks guys!
the machine was like this new so I am guessing from the factory someone got carried away or the packing grease got into it.

is the standard drawbar bolt available as a replacement?

Bob you have a picture and thread/length of bar I should look for

 

[SilverSanJuan]

You can find a replacement drawbar at LMS. There's two MT3 drawbars at the bottom of the linked page. One is imperial and one is metric. Hope that is helpful. LMS is a great store to order from.

Todd

 

[Speedy]

now I just need to figure out what I have

maybe I should also purchase some other goodies, any recommendations no tooling for this mill yet other then the collets

 

[tel]

Yes, you need both an M12 and a 1/2" - a couple of bits of threaded rod and a handful of nuts will set you back less that a 'real' part, shouldn't run you over $20 for a metre of each. And you can use the other half of the threaded rods for something else.