Workshop Damp/humidity
- Thread starter djh82uk
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Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:
I to have problem with rust tried oil but that just made my hands dirty , been using waxoil spread a small amount with a tissue over the mill table , and clean off all ferrous swarf , and put as much tooling in drawers and boxes as possible , my mill is to close to the door to move it requires a major redesign and change round .
That light bulb idea is pretty sharp as it provides a nice small heater at very little cost.
I don't see the dehumidifier working in this particular application unless your workshop is very well vapour sealed and can keep the excessive outdoor moisture levels from finding a way in. Any leakage that the dehumidifier can grab will end up on the cold machine surfaces and you'll be back in condensate trouble again.
Keep us up to speed and let us know how you get this serious problem sorted.
Joe
I don't see the dehumidifier working in this particular application unless your workshop is very well vapour sealed and can keep the excessive outdoor moisture levels from finding a way in. Any leakage that the dehumidifier can grab will end up on the cold machine surfaces and you'll be back in condensate trouble again.
Keep us up to speed and let us know how you get this serious problem sorted.
Joe
robcas631
Well-Known Member
Is your workshop enclosed? Meaning completely weather free?
robcas631
Well-Known Member
Short of temperature variations.....water, air tight......within reason?
mikegw1961
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Tonyr
Do you know where I could purchase some SteelGard as I have looked on the Internet and cannot find a stockist
Regards
Mike W
Do you know where I could purchase some SteelGard as I have looked on the Internet and cannot find a stockist
Regards
Mike W
djh82uk - you've sent me on a search for material specs on MDF and I found this site:
www.spanogroup.be/upload/docs/MDF-manual ENG LOW RES.pdf
On Page 15, they classify high humidity installations such as kitchens, bathrooms, and unheated garages.
Do you have any vapour barrier/insulation under the MDF?
Same material and installation method on the ceiling?
Floor? Poured concrete or wood structure above the ground?
www.spanogroup.be/upload/docs/MDF-manual ENG LOW RES.pdf
On Page 15, they classify high humidity installations such as kitchens, bathrooms, and unheated garages.
Do you have any vapour barrier/insulation under the MDF?
Same material and installation method on the ceiling?
Floor? Poured concrete or wood structure above the ground?
Hi Banjoe, I should have given more info.
Floor is made from T&G boards sat on top of pressure treated bearers on top of gravel. Walls are T&G boards with MDF sheets screwed to the inside (for warmth and somewhere to fit the plug sockets).
Ceiling is OSB fibre sheet covered with roofing felt. The roof is the worst part I think and may upgrade it in the future.
Thanks
DJH
Floor is made from T&G boards sat on top of pressure treated bearers on top of gravel. Walls are T&G boards with MDF sheets screwed to the inside (for warmth and somewhere to fit the plug sockets).
Ceiling is OSB fibre sheet covered with roofing felt. The roof is the worst part I think and may upgrade it in the future.
Thanks
DJH
Tin Falcon
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this may be a crazy question but do have insulation with vapor barrier.
Tin
Tin
Hiya, no insulation, and not sure I could do anything now as the workbenches are fitted to the inside of the shed. There is just a weed/damp canvas below the gravel. it's never sitting in water and has airflow beneath it.
I did not insulate it as it gets warm very quickly and stays warm for a while, im guessing because of the mdf inner skin (air being fairly good insulator etc)
Thanks
DJH
I did not insulate it as it gets warm very quickly and stays warm for a while, im guessing because of the mdf inner skin (air being fairly good insulator etc)
Thanks
DJH
Tin Falcon
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a plastic sheet under the shed should be your first order of business..
Tin
Tin
You're thinking that the roof is the worst part but it may be the best vapour barrier surface of your workshop. Checking on the characteristics of MDF, there seems to be very little impermeability built into this material so water vapour will transfer through it quite easily. There are also the gaps between the sections that give moisture even more opportunities to join up with your beautiful machines.
Sitting over soaking ground is another major invitation to dampness to come join the party. Door and window seals I expect aren't the same quality as on the main house so there will be water contributions around these necessary holes in your walls.
To stop, or at least substantially reduce moisture entering from the damp outdoors will require the installation of impervious surfaces on the walls, floors, and potentially ceiling. Doors and window gaskets/seals would also be needed to reduce these contributions. At the end of all this work and expense, there will still be very high humidity levels in your shop and this will result in the same condensation issues you're seeing on your favourite machinery.
I live in a location that gets quite cold in the winter (the middle of Canada) so insulation & vapour barriers are standard construction features to keep moisture transfer from freezing inside walls and causing serious problems. The good thing about our winters is that there is almost no moisture left in outdoor air so we don't get the cold damp issues during the winter (but we do get to shovel our rain). The cold/damp days are quite few so we don't see your issues for many days of the year
I'm still leaning to raising the temperature of your equipment above the point of condensation. If you can't go with heating the entire workshop, the suggestion of tenting & light bulb heating is an excellent and economical way to reduce and hopefully entirely eliminate your problem. If the bulbs don't have the capacity to maintain needed temperatures, you will need to increase the heater size until the needed temperature is achieved.
Another long shot option is to convert your bedroom to a new workshop but I expect if you even suggest this, you may find yourself sleeping in your workshop, so let's just keep this idea between ourselves.
Joe
Sitting over soaking ground is another major invitation to dampness to come join the party. Door and window seals I expect aren't the same quality as on the main house so there will be water contributions around these necessary holes in your walls.
To stop, or at least substantially reduce moisture entering from the damp outdoors will require the installation of impervious surfaces on the walls, floors, and potentially ceiling. Doors and window gaskets/seals would also be needed to reduce these contributions. At the end of all this work and expense, there will still be very high humidity levels in your shop and this will result in the same condensation issues you're seeing on your favourite machinery.
I live in a location that gets quite cold in the winter (the middle of Canada) so insulation & vapour barriers are standard construction features to keep moisture transfer from freezing inside walls and causing serious problems. The good thing about our winters is that there is almost no moisture left in outdoor air so we don't get the cold damp issues during the winter (but we do get to shovel our rain). The cold/damp days are quite few so we don't see your issues for many days of the year
I'm still leaning to raising the temperature of your equipment above the point of condensation. If you can't go with heating the entire workshop, the suggestion of tenting & light bulb heating is an excellent and economical way to reduce and hopefully entirely eliminate your problem. If the bulbs don't have the capacity to maintain needed temperatures, you will need to increase the heater size until the needed temperature is achieved.
Another long shot option is to convert your bedroom to a new workshop but I expect if you even suggest this, you may find yourself sleeping in your workshop, so let's just keep this idea between ourselves.
Joe
Yeh im afraid all tools are limited to to the shed 
.
I understand sealing the shed would be an advantage but I just do not have the funds for it. The floorboards are sealed with spirit based treatment and the water just runs off it like wax, as is the outer shell. Would it help to seal the inside floor with a thick glossy floor paint?
I am going to try a tube heater in contact with the mill and see how that goes to begin with, as well as covering the machines when not in use.
Now that the shed is built, I see no easy way to further seal it. Pretty much every structural join is sealed with silicon and it does retain heat very well and I never feel any drafts etc.
DJH
.I understand sealing the shed would be an advantage but I just do not have the funds for it. The floorboards are sealed with spirit based treatment and the water just runs off it like wax, as is the outer shell. Would it help to seal the inside floor with a thick glossy floor paint?
I am going to try a tube heater in contact with the mill and see how that goes to begin with, as well as covering the machines when not in use.
Now that the shed is built, I see no easy way to further seal it. Pretty much every structural join is sealed with silicon and it does retain heat very well and I never feel any drafts etc.
DJH
DJH - I would suggest that you give up trying to seal your workshop. The cost and time isn't worth it as the results of a retrofit won't meet your needs of a significantly vapour sealed building. I have to suggest that you go with the equipment heating option to keep your friends moisture free and living happily ever after.
You didn't mention insulation in your building description. Is there anything installed in the walls/floor/roof in the way of insulation?
I'm still trying to imagine a long cool damp winter and I'm not sure how it would measure up against our bitter cold & dry winters. After 50 years of parking outside, I've just built a garage so I can park indoors for the winter. No heat yet but have 6" of fibreglass and 2" of styrofoam insulation on the walls along with the absolutely necessary 6 mil vapour barrier. Have installed in floor heating tubing but don't have the boiler installed yet.
But enough about me, we still need to get your machine lineup in order and happy again. I expect you have sufficient electrical power in the workshop for any level of electric heat. Have you tried the light bulb trick yet?
You didn't mention insulation in your building description. Is there anything installed in the walls/floor/roof in the way of insulation?
I'm still trying to imagine a long cool damp winter and I'm not sure how it would measure up against our bitter cold & dry winters. After 50 years of parking outside, I've just built a garage so I can park indoors for the winter. No heat yet but have 6" of fibreglass and 2" of styrofoam insulation on the walls along with the absolutely necessary 6 mil vapour barrier. Have installed in floor heating tubing but don't have the boiler installed yet.
But enough about me, we still need to get your machine lineup in order and happy again. I expect you have sufficient electrical power in the workshop for any level of electric heat. Have you tried the light bulb trick yet?
Hi banjoe, powers not an issue, I have 16 & 32A outlets. I have bought this which should be here any day now, im going to wall mount it behind the mill so that the vertical column rests against it and will see how it goes, otherwise I will try the lightbulb idea.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120934837655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Im also covering the machine with a blanket. I do not have any insulation but it really holds heat rather well. it is 4 degrees in there right now, 10 mins with the heater on and it will hit 20 and stay above 10 for 2-3 hours.
Thanks
DJH
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/120934837655?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649
Im also covering the machine with a blanket. I do not have any insulation but it really holds heat rather well. it is 4 degrees in there right now, 10 mins with the heater on and it will hit 20 and stay above 10 for 2-3 hours.
Thanks
DJH
Hi DHJ,
I didn't see heating capacity in the information so checked other sites listing the same heater. It appears that you're looking at 135 watts, which is a bit better than a 1000 watt bulb and likely safer and longer lasting than a light bulb installation.
With your heat trapping blanket and this little heater, that pesky moisture will have to find another cold host to condense on.
Although working with blankets and heaters and such will give you a few more challenges in the workshop, it should also end your condensing issues.
Keep us up to speed so we can celebrate your success and hopefully resolve this same problem in other workshops.
Joe
I didn't see heating capacity in the information so checked other sites listing the same heater. It appears that you're looking at 135 watts, which is a bit better than a 1000 watt bulb and likely safer and longer lasting than a light bulb installation.
With your heat trapping blanket and this little heater, that pesky moisture will have to find another cold host to condense on.
Although working with blankets and heaters and such will give you a few more challenges in the workshop, it should also end your condensing issues.
Keep us up to speed so we can celebrate your success and hopefully resolve this same problem in other workshops.
Joe
Best of luck on this approach. The insulating value of your machine shop doesn't reflect the moisture impermeability of the structure. Two entirely difference activities are taking place to upset your mechanical friends. I don't see you getting an effective moisture barrier in place without some pretty expensive rework of your exterior surfaces so I'd let the building breath all the moisture it wants.....as long as it doesn't end up collecting on critical items
Your band of machine friends need good treatment and you're taking them down the road to a better life. You've taken a very positive and cost effective approach to managing condensation on your friends.
Keep us up to speed so that we can learn from your experience or help you continue further on the path to machine happiness.
Joe
Your band of machine friends need good treatment and you're taking them down the road to a better life. You've taken a very positive and cost effective approach to managing condensation on your friends.
Keep us up to speed so that we can learn from your experience or help you continue further on the path to machine happiness.
Joe
