Silver Soldering...supplies? tools? etc.
- Thread starter zeeprogrammer
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Just a thought,zee,if you've never done any hard soldering/brazing,definitely try it out on a few bits of scrap,before trying to solder up that thingummy that took you 7 hours to machine.
Also,not usually being in much of a hurry,i chuck the soldered bits in a small bucket of citric acid mixture for an hour or so,2oz. to a quart bucket.This gives a nice clean surface,which just needs a quick flick with a soft brush,and you're ready to do the next bit.
In relation to the "big parts to small parts",always heat the larger part the most.Generally,the heat will flow onto the small part.
Have at it,son,it's all good fun.
Also,not usually being in much of a hurry,i chuck the soldered bits in a small bucket of citric acid mixture for an hour or so,2oz. to a quart bucket.This gives a nice clean surface,which just needs a quick flick with a soft brush,and you're ready to do the next bit.
In relation to the "big parts to small parts",always heat the larger part the most.Generally,the heat will flow onto the small part.
Have at it,son,it's all good fun.
arnoldb
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Zee, my half cent's worth from a newbie....
First up, pickle; like bentprop mentioned, citric acid works well to clean the parts. It is also non-toxic, cheap, and easy to dispose of when you need to. It is safe to use around other people (and pets) and you don't need oodles of protective clothing while using it. In fact I use none; not even gloves, and take parts out of the pickle with bare hands; it does burn a tiny bit if you have any cuts on your hands though, so some consideration is worthwhile for gloves.
I found dunking the workpiece straight into the pickle bath after soldering really helps to clean it up quickly. I would NOT recommend doing this with commercial pickling agents or acids other than the citric acid! - You will get some splashing & vapors coming off. A clean toothbrush helps with additional scrubbing.
Having gone through this thread, I see where some of my soldering woes stem from; I have 40% silver, cadmium free rods, so that means my parts must get to a much higher temperature for the solder to flow than if I had 45% or higher silver content rods. Well, the 40% is all I could get my hands on here in Windhoek, so I'll have to make do. You should have a lot less problems if you can get higher silver content rods/wire.
A tip I can give you: I have been inclined to use way too much solder in previous ventures. You need just a light dab of the rod - I got some practice with this yesterday with the boiler; all in all I used only about 150mm of a length of 1.5mm solder rod for all the work I did... And the process seems to get easier the more I do it
Regards, Arnold
First up, pickle; like bentprop mentioned, citric acid works well to clean the parts. It is also non-toxic, cheap, and easy to dispose of when you need to. It is safe to use around other people (and pets) and you don't need oodles of protective clothing while using it. In fact I use none; not even gloves, and take parts out of the pickle with bare hands; it does burn a tiny bit if you have any cuts on your hands though, so some consideration is worthwhile for gloves.
I found dunking the workpiece straight into the pickle bath after soldering really helps to clean it up quickly. I would NOT recommend doing this with commercial pickling agents or acids other than the citric acid! - You will get some splashing & vapors coming off. A clean toothbrush helps with additional scrubbing.
Having gone through this thread, I see where some of my soldering woes stem from; I have 40% silver, cadmium free rods, so that means my parts must get to a much higher temperature for the solder to flow than if I had 45% or higher silver content rods. Well, the 40% is all I could get my hands on here in Windhoek, so I'll have to make do. You should have a lot less problems if you can get higher silver content rods/wire.
A tip I can give you: I have been inclined to use way too much solder in previous ventures. You need just a light dab of the rod - I got some practice with this yesterday with the boiler; all in all I used only about 150mm of a length of 1.5mm solder rod for all the work I did... And the process seems to get easier the more I do it
Regards, Arnold
PTsideshow
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Here is a new torch that is less than $100.00 and comes with either a bulk Propane cylinder fitting or disposalable cylinder.
EZ torch kit page link
I believe it is also called the shark, it is sold as a student jewelry toch and it works very well for silver soldering at a low start up cost.
The adapter will connect a standard hose or torch fitting to a bulk cylinder, with the addition of it and a hose from a BBQ and a torch head you can have a long reach torch.
This is the gentec version of the turbo torch for propane, They also have acetylene/air torches, but require the purchase of one of these.
The prest-o-lite type/style torches are made by 6 or more companies most of the parts interchange on the old ones.I don't know about the new quick disconnect ones.
If you go the air acetylene route you will also need an adapter from cylinder to regulator
Bernz-O-Matic web page
More silver brazing from the company that makes the filler rod
Power torch catalog is the one you want
Gentec torches
Turbo torch home page
Goss brand of torches
Uniweld brand
Brazing book Handy and Harman
The flux chart from the book great to bookmark too
EZ torch kit page link
I believe it is also called the shark, it is sold as a student jewelry toch and it works very well for silver soldering at a low start up cost.
The adapter will connect a standard hose or torch fitting to a bulk cylinder, with the addition of it and a hose from a BBQ and a torch head you can have a long reach torch.
This is the gentec version of the turbo torch for propane, They also have acetylene/air torches, but require the purchase of one of these.
The prest-o-lite type/style torches are made by 6 or more companies most of the parts interchange on the old ones.I don't know about the new quick disconnect ones.
If you go the air acetylene route you will also need an adapter from cylinder to regulator
Bernz-O-Matic web page
More silver brazing from the company that makes the filler rod
Power torch catalog is the one you want
Gentec torches
Turbo torch home page
Goss brand of torches
Uniweld brand
Brazing book Handy and Harman
The flux chart from the book great to bookmark too
Hi
I bought this kit from machine mart, ( I believe they are a subsidiary of a US company)
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/fc109-gas-torch-with-nozzles
Cheap and cheerful but so far I have done all my silver soldering with it including both my boilers.
One of these will silver solder small parts as well as long as they are in a hearth.
Silver solder wire is ideal for snipping small bits off and placing in the flux.
I also have a small pencil torch that will silver solder small parts, both these are filled with cigarette lighter refill gas.
Cheers
Rich
I bought this kit from machine mart, ( I believe they are a subsidiary of a US company)
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/fc109-gas-torch-with-nozzles
Cheap and cheerful but so far I have done all my silver soldering with it including both my boilers.
One of these will silver solder small parts as well as long as they are in a hearth.
Silver solder wire is ideal for snipping small bits off and placing in the flux.
I also have a small pencil torch that will silver solder small parts, both these are filled with cigarette lighter refill gas.
Cheers
Rich
zeeprogrammer
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This is great information everyone. Awesome. I'm particularly happy that it seems to be helpful other members as well.
Thanks!
Thanks!
GWRdriver
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Arnold,
Sorry to hear you have woes, but to follow up on your comment, the VAST majority of silver soldering problems for amatuers come from three sources, in order, (1) not enough heat, (2) contaminated surfaces or poor preparation in general, and (3) not enough heat.
I have two types of heating gear, which I chose by default, meaning, OK I've got this gear let's see how it will work for building boilers. So far so good. The first is a standard full size oxy-acetylene setup with a 1" "rosebud" as my primary boiler building tip, and then I have a propane setup using bayonette torch tips much like those illustrated in PTslideshow's post. I like them both and use them both. The warnings we've all gotten for using oxy-acetylene on small copper and brass assemblies (boilers, etc) are justified because the melting temperature of copper and brazing solder aren't very far apart and in a moment of inattention it's not difficult to burn a hole in something. I've done it to myself (well, a boiler part) and I learned to pay attention and make the gear do my bidding and no more. The rosebud tip (and some discipline) allow me to use oxy-acetyle for a big job without being afraid I am going to incinerate something. The propane gear I use for small boilers and its greatest attributes are that it's gentle and controllable, . . . and late on a Saturday night, if need be, I can get more fuel at the Minute-Mart!
Harry
Harry: I never had to go as far as a 1" rosebud to silver solder but I am a non conformist. I use a propane cutting tip on my oxy torch and since the torch is mainly used for cutting it usually has the cutting torch hooked up to propane. With the propane cutting tip I use a large soft flame when I have something big to silver solder.
It is much easier to control the heat than with an acetylene welding tip.
It is much easier to control the heat than with an acetylene welding tip.
arnoldb
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Harry, thank you, and you are right about the heat.
I've had problems with the heat, but things are improving for me though, I am happy to say. My current boiler build is going well, and I am getting a feel for when things are hot enough, and just as importantly, for controlling where the heat must go.
So I think my woes are pretty much something of the past - I'm actually starting to enjoy the whole process.
Regards, Arnold
I've had problems with the heat, but things are improving for me though, I am happy to say. My current boiler build is going well, and I am getting a feel for when things are hot enough, and just as importantly, for controlling where the heat must go.
So I think my woes are pretty much something of the past - I'm actually starting to enjoy the whole process
.Regards, Arnold
GWRdriver
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Dave,steamer said:
I don't know if I would be bold enough go public with a figure like .020", I'm not sure what the widest clearance I've asked it to bridge is, probabaly not near that much, but I agree that Safety-silv 45 has the ability to fill quite a bit more gap than the mfg's allow . . . but isn't that the case with many products. The problem with excessive gaps is $$$$. Large gaps can wick in many times the amount of solder actually required to make a sound joint.
I almost always use the ring/flux/wicking principle if possible. I have found the ideal gap to be around 0.002" to 0.003" (or metric equivalent).
Heat only the major part of the construction, the heat transfer will automatically warm up the smaller parts, and use only enough rings of solder wire you think will be needed to fill the joint completely. Always err on the side of overfilling. I have found that to fit say a 1/8" copper pipe into a 1/8" depth of hole will require one ring of thin wire, that gives good penetration and a nice outside fillet. So for the same sized pipe going into a 3/16" deep hole, I would put 2 rings on to make sure of a good joint.
For compression joints, I normally use the wire down in the bottom of the joint to ensure there is a good strong joint made where it needs to be. See attached C-o-C.
Blogs
Heat only the major part of the construction, the heat transfer will automatically warm up the smaller parts, and use only enough rings of solder wire you think will be needed to fill the joint completely. Always err on the side of overfilling. I have found that to fit say a 1/8" copper pipe into a 1/8" depth of hole will require one ring of thin wire, that gives good penetration and a nice outside fillet. So for the same sized pipe going into a 3/16" deep hole, I would put 2 rings on to make sure of a good joint.
For compression joints, I normally use the wire down in the bottom of the joint to ensure there is a good strong joint made where it needs to be. See attached C-o-C.
Blogs
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