Milling ideas?

[lazylathe]

Okay, so i have the Myford metal lathe now and it is getting set up and adjusted.
I have bought a few new tools for it because some that came with the lathe are really old and not accurate anymore. A new 3 jaw chuck, QCTP, a new pulley for the 1/2hp motor and a few other bits.

I have been reading posts on milling on the lathe and a lot do not recommend it.
Flexing of parts and accuracy being of concern.

Is there an engine out there that one can build without the use of a mill??

Not having another $1000 plus to throw at a milling machine what options do i have?
I know i can still find the vertical milling tables for the Myford and a vise.
Use the collet set to hold the cutters etc...
Seen some people convert drill presses to "milling machines" and that scares me! ???
They are only designed for vertical forces and not lateral ones.

I suppose another way of asking the question is if i want to build a simple engine do i need a milling machine?
I tried when i had the Sherline lathe and it was extremely difficult to do...

Then looking at the prices of all the attachments i would need it kind of adds up very quickly and if i saved a bit longer i could most likely buy a small mill.

Also been looking at small shapers which appear to be quite neat but slightly limited in what they can do when compared to a mill.

Any help, ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Andrew

 

[cl350rr]

Although milling in a lathe is not ideal, I have used a vertical slide to mill several projects on 3 different lathes and all produced accetable results for what I needed. I have also done some light milling in a drill press when that is all I had and a repair needed to be done. it to produced acceptable results.

what I believe is that you can make either work in a pinch but light cuts and rigidity of setup are critical to safety and good work.

years ago a milling machine was unheard of in all but the best equipped home shops yet home craftsmen all over the world were producing running engines with what they had available to them.

there are also engine designs that can be produce a running steam engine without the use of either a lathe or mill. that is an option.

$.02

Randel

 

[90LX_Notch]

Andrew,

My first engine was Nick G's Wobbler. I built it, along with the two engines in my avatar, with an Atlas 618 lathe and a 15" drillpress. The two in my avatar are Elmer's Tiny at full scale and 1/2 scale. The flat on the column for the Tiny engines were machined by bolting them to a faceplate through the crank bore. Everything else for the engines is turning with the lathe, drilling with a drillpress or hand filing.

Bob

 

[Jasonb]

The traction engine in my avitar was done without a mill just used a Myford vertical slide on my Emco lathe, sharp cutters and don't try to take too much off in one go and it will be fine.

Jason

 

[arnoldb]

Andrew, first off, congrats on the ML7 - she looks like she's in tip-top condition.

While I agree that using a lathe to do milling is not ideal, it is entirely possible, and 5 of the ten engines I've built so far have been done on my ML7 only.
This was for 2 rocking engines, Elmer's Tiny and Fancy, as well as Fred the O gauge locomotive.
A vertical slide is a big help for this, but with a bit of creativity you can use your QCTP or just clamp work directly to the cross slide; the T slots are perfect for this, and one of the great advantages of a lathe with a slotted cross slide.

Many exquisite engines was built on lathes only in earlier years; It may take a bit longer and lighter cutting, and a bit of thought about machining steps, but is a great way to get to learn your lathe's peculiarities and basic skills.

Personally, not having a mill initially taught me a heck of a lot of valuable machining and manual tool skills, and I'm actually glad I had to go through the roughish phase without a mill

If you get a vertical slide for your lathe, it will always come in useful again; I've even used mine on the mill for some odd jobs ;D

I hope you have as much fun learning to run your lathe as I did - now start making some chips Thm: - and don't be afraid to ask questions if you need to!

Kind regards, Arnold

 

[lazylathe]

Thanks for all the answers!
As a total green metal worker i will ask some apparent silly questions.
They make sense to me because i know no better.
It is going to be a long road to building something that works but i am going to enjoy every minute of it! ;D

At the moment i am reading "The Amatuer's Lathe" by Sparey.
Quite an interesting read. Have lots of questions already and i am only about 20 pages in... :-\
For example he recommends the lathe to always be run with the back gears.
Also reading through the George Thomas books...
Being a sponge for the meantime!

Andrew

 

[kvom]

Many of the engines published in magazines like Model Engineer were done with a milling slide. You do need, at a minimum, a faceplate and clamps plus a 4-jaw chuck for workholding.

 

[winklmj]

You can get some basic square, rectangular shapes using a 4-jaw (plus a 4-jaw comes in handy for lots of other ops too):

http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Chucks/4_jaw/4-Jaw.htm#Non-cylinder

 

[SignalFailure]

Is there an engine out there that one can build without the use of a mill??

You can build oodles of engines without a milling machine or vertical slide but you might have to do a fair bit of filing or modify the design slightly. I bought a micro mill only fairly recently, mainly because cutting neat slots without one is next to impossible!

 

[Dave420g]

I have just started 'Gerrys Beam Engine' at 1 1/2 times the drawing size and I only have an ML7 and a bench drill (plus hand tools of course!)
I have completed the side frames in 6mm Aluminium using the ML7 vertical slide and end mills.

I was very happy with the results, although I had to be very inventive when it came to holding the work on the slide and the time took for those setups was probably much longer than it would have been in a mill. But I'm doing this as a hobby, not commercially so time really isn't an issue.
As for accuracy, you can't really rely on the lathe handwheel markings. There's no alternative than small cuts and plenty of measuring

I'm looking forward to the next parts. and intend to post a work-in progress thread once I have got a bit further.

I say, give it a go with the lathe.


Dave

 

[lazylathe]

WOW! Thanks Dave!
That does give me a lot of inspiration!!!
Maybe something on such a large scale in a few years time...

I am seriously considering getting the vertical slide and a vice.
Save up some more beans and look at a mill in the future!

Thanks again for all the tips and help!

Andrew

 

[ieezitin]

Andrew.

I don’t make engines but I machine a lot of odds & sods, I do all my milling on the lathe, slow and careful as it has been said, but I have made so much special tooling for it I don’t really use the horizontal mill I have. As it’s been said you will not go wrong with the slide and vice as in time it will be used for so many applications.

Don’t in the future ever discount a shaper though, its really a versatile machine, just recently it was a toss up for me to buy a full size mill or a shaper, I went the shaper rout because my tooling costs would be pennies verses high dollar end mills, there’s not too much a shaper will not do in capable hands that a mill can and where it wont work for me one of my two lathes would pick up the slack .
Enjoy your new lathe. Have fun! Anthony.

 

[arnoldb]

I've also read "The Amateur's Lathe" - many times over, and IMHO it is a great reference to anyone getting started in our hobby.

I have a theory as to Mr Sparey's wide use of back gear on the lathe. This book was written many many years ago, before High Speed Steel and Carbide tools were around as widely and cheaply as today. The cutting tool steel of choice back then was carbon steel, and a sure-fire way to immediately blunt a carbon steel toolbit very quickly is to let the cutting tip get too hot, and I think that is why Mr Sparey used back gear so much.

He mentions the following in the book quite a bit: "When in doubt, slow down" - a saying that I've followed all along, and mostly to good effect. There are exceptions but as one goes along these become obvious.

Dave, thank you for sharing those photos - and a K-point for persistence to you! ;D

Kind regards, Arnold

 

[lazylathe]

It is a great book to read, i must agree.
Some of it is quite comical especially the part about letting any future wife know that you are a model engineer before going any further with the relationship!
He is also typically British and no other make is good enough.
I laughed out loud on his comments on the American rocker tool post. Why would someone deface their lathe with one of those. ;D

Lots of good general info so far!
Have yet to get to the real meaty stuff!

Andrew