Metric availability rant

[tmuir]

In Australia we went metric in 1966.
Today I went to my local hardware stores to get some 10mm nuts and either some 10mm threaded rod or some 10mm bolts to use with the T nuts I bought for my mill the other day and would you believe it both hardware stores where I live only had imperial bolts and threaded!
I know our large chain store hardware shops are crap where I live but I thought they would atleast stock metric nuts and bolts but I guess 42 years of us going metric isn't long enough....

 

[jack404]

G'day mate i went through this a while ago and found out the folowing

nearly all our ( OZ ) hardware is overseas owned or franchised to locals from the majors

the chain buyers set "stock" for the stores,
Bunnings is set in Bombay India
Mitre10 Bristol UK
Home hardware Dallas TX

the small local guy here ( riverwood NSW) gets told how many of something he must take and at what price he must sell to match a national guide and theres big penalties if he dont

nuts and bolts included

stupid huh ?

best bet is to remind them that metric is MANDATORY and failing to comply is a $50,000 fine when enough stores pass this back to head offive we'll get there ( or it worked for me in Adelaide ) but i admit i bulk buy from the local manufacturers/supply houses now ( box lots) and make the rest

its way cheaper than $9.50 for 10 x 8mmx1mm nut and bolts ( $16 for 100 bolts with nuts plus postage)

http://www.bolts.com.au/index.php

http://www.nutandboltfactory.com.au

http://www.boltmasters.com.au/main/products.htm

and these folks have a office in the 'gong i think

http://www.fastenersales.com.au/contact.php

hope this helps

jack

 

[tmuir]

Thanks a lot for that.
I've book marked all of them and think I may have a sit down and think about all the other sizes I want and place a bulk order.
I'm buying less and less from these big hardware stores especially Bunnings as I've found their quality going down on what was already average over the last couple of years.
I no longer buy nails from Bunnings as they import ones made in china which are made of an inferior grade metal to local ones and I find up to 10% are bent in the packet before you use them let alone when you try and hammer them in.

 

[jack404]

When Bunnings was taken over by the Indian firm/family they changed the corporate logo from

"Quality and lowest prices guarenteed"

to

"lower prices are just the beginning"

now Big W is way cheaper on the GMC and Ozito stuff if you buy it and yes most of there stuff is 3rd rate

they have the odd specials that are ok but the every day price is not cheap

i am very lucky being where i am, there are three steel companies within 2 K's of me and a number of small companies making fastners of various desciptions and most places do counter sales and are way cheap that way

my mate from Bega comes to sydney once a year just to do a factory door day he gets 90% of his stuff that way and he reckons he saves a few hundred even with the fuel from bega ( he makes boats and trailers)

Brisbane has a heap of nut and bolt manufacturers so brisbane yellow pages online is another great place to look

good luck mate

jack

 

[tel]

Not that it matters, but ...... only our currency went metric in 1966 (14th Feb.) general metrication didn't come into force until about a decade later - mid 70's. Then we went through a silly period where sellers were labeling imperial fasteners as the nearest metric equivalent, which they weren't. At the same time it became impossible to buy rulers or measuring equipment in imperial - and altogether misguided act that was, fortunately, short.

These days we have reached a state of equilibrium where both are readily available BUT the customers have spoken and metric bolts are not generally accepted by the DIY and Home Handyman that make up the bulk of loose sales from the hardware chains. Thus the preponderance of the whitworth bolt in these places.

Any Industrial Supply house or bolt store will have all the metrical stuff you can poke a stick at - just don't expect to find it in Woolies.

 

[Maryak]

Tel,

Spot on :bow:

Best Regards
Bob

 

[compound driver 2]

I wish we could buy imperial in the hardware stores in the UK. We have to put up with metric junk for everything, drives me up the wall.
Im not all that happy about our 9 year old being told in school that it ilegal to use imperial. I sent him in with an imperial rule only to find it had been taken off him (it allso had millipeeds on it). I went up to his school and tore the teacher a spare one.
He uses imperial in my workshop and will end up using imperial on steam restorations so he needs to know the imperial system not the EU correct metric b*ll*x. Imperial has served him in building a Stuart Turner and a freelance oscilating engine so i doubt he's unable to measure. His verticle boiler designed by him is also in imperial so it looks like our 9 year old is going to continue breaking the law.
I hate europe!

 

[tel]

Hopefully your 'silly period' will pass quickly and you will reach the common sense compromise that we did.

 

[Maryak]

Our US friends were smarter than we were, they stuck to their guns and used what they were and are comfortable with. :bow: Wonder how they get on if they want imp or metric fasteners ???

I have 3 tool boxes one English, one American and one Metric.

Lucky I'm a tool freak :

Best Regards
Bob

 

[rickharris]

... I sent him in with an imperial rule only to find it had been taken off him (it allso had millipeeds on it). I went up to his school and tore the teacher a spare one.
...

It's worse than you think! School will also teach him to use Centipeeds - In fact depending on his technology teachers he may never meet a Millipeed!

As for metrication in the USA - They started in 1800 with the geo survey department - various efforts and legislation fell by the way side -

"Congress included new encouragement for U.S. industrial metrication in the Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988. This legislation amended the Metric Conversion Act of 1975 and designated the metric system as "the Preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce". The legislation states that the Federal Government has a responsibility to assist industry, especially small business, as it voluntarily converts to the metric system of measurement."

From Wikipedia

 

[tel]

Interestingly enough Bob, the principal reason we went metric was because the US was gearing up to do so - we forged ahead, and in the meantime they thought better of it.

Still, it works to our advantage - a contact at P&N some years back assured me that there would always be imperial stuff available from them, as it's needed by the manufacturers who make stuff for export to non-metric countries.

 

[tmuir]

Don't get me wrong.
I only buy rulers that have metric and imperial on them and was agast at the attempt of the EU to out law imperial nuts and bolts etc (thankfully that didn't happen) just bugged me I couldn't get metric bolts at my local hardware store.

I prefer metric because that was what I was taught but still sometimes work with imperial because when I restore old toy steam engines they were made using imperial material.

 

[greenie]

When Bunnings was taken over by the Indian firm/family they changed the corporate logo from "Quality and lowest prices guarenteed" to "lower prices are just the beginning"

good luck mate - jack

Hey Jack, have a look at these links, the year 1994 is the important one as well as the year 2001.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/contact-us_who-we-are_history.aspx

http://www.wesfarmers.com.au/

regards greenie

 

[kvom]

My local Ace harware store has an excellent stock of bolts/nuts/screws, much much better than the big-box stores. That said, there are two full rows of imperial fasteners and one row end of metric. The downside is that buying fasteners in single quantities is expensive. I'm thinking that I need to order some 100-count boxes of common screws from Enco instead.

Of course, you need a full metric set of wrenches and sockets to work on any vehicle these days, as imperial and metric fasteners are mixed freely (not to metion Torx).

 

[shred]

Our US friends were smarter than we were, they stuck to their guns and used what they were and are comfortable with. :bow: Wonder how they get on if they want imp or metric fasteners ???

Actually it's becoming a nuisance for model engine building. Everything imported has metric fasteners (including lot of US cars), while the old stuff has imperial. The hardware store stock of metric fasteners isn't large by any means and even the imperial selection is pretty poor unless you're building full-size. Unless you go way out of your way, tooling is 99% imperial..

Engine plans have a mix from all-imperial to all-metric to mixed hodgepodges (and the old Brit plans have fun things like BA threads we don't get), especially if the same plan has been converted from one to the other and back. You need to carry two full sets of hex keys or wrenches if you plan to turn any bolts or socket screws you run across. The other day I think I found a metric threaded SHCS with an imperial hex hole

Luckily there's a local bolt supply that has pretty much anything I could ever need available for cheap, but it makes me wonder how the next generation tinkerers will get on with so little inspiration at the 'hardware' store. The last real hardware store with a wall of cigar-sized boxes full of little odd parts closed. I wanted to buy the whole wall. As a kid, I'd go into those places and poke at the little boxes with ball bearings and magnets and springs and so on and imagine the cool things that could be made with them. Now it's all window treatments and custom drawer pulls.

 

[Cedge]

Perhaps a bit off topic, but the city where I live, for many years, hosted the world's largest international textile machinery show. Shortly after the rest of the world went metric, I noticed something odd. The international visitors were walking around town with bags full of yard sticks and 12 inch rulers. Some had what looked like hundreds of them.

Turned out that they were buying them as inexpensive but novel souvenirs to take back home to give friends and family. Every year, when the show ended, you couldn't find a ruler or yard stick anywhere in town.

Steve

 

[tmuir]

(and the old Brit plans have fun things like BA threads we don't get)

Hence when I was on holidays in the UK the other week I bought a complete set of BA taps and dies.
You can get them in OZ but not for as cheap as I got this set in UK.

 

[Tin Falcon]

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Re: Appropriate use of studs vs. bolts
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The problem in England is we have a bunch of nanny state loving twits running the country. Every law that europe wants us to have we take with out argument. Be it the metric system or same sex weddings. Our nanny state government wont stand up to europe and say no as the people want. Sadly we all get to bend over and accept the laws imposed on us by europe.

My father used imperial his father used it and Iw as taught to use it. All the machines I own are imperial and all the traction engines I repair for a living were made using imperial tools. We were once a great engineering country, we are now a country of shop keeps and office wallers. The metric system is just the tip of the iceberg of rot in this country.

Keeping the imperial system wont bring back teh great days of industry for England but it will keep a system that has served us well for generations.

 

[shred]

Hence when I was on holidays in the UK the other week I bought a complete set of BA taps and dies.
You can get them in OZ but not for as cheap as I got this set in UK.

Hmm, I have a friend in the UK, but I suspect then I'd need a bucket of BA nuts and bolts too

 

[Kludge]

Our US friends were smarter than we were, they stuck to their guns and used what they were and are comfortable with.

Oddly enough, a number of people think we're backwards for doing so. I'm comfortable with metric, Imperial, mixed or invented systems, but I'm also known to be ever so slightly mad which may be why.

I'm even considering ordering some of the unique sizes from our cousins in England just to complicate things even more. Fractional, number size, metric and BA all in the same machine. Gotta love it. Maybe both tapered and straight pipe thread in some of the air and steam engines for no particular reason except for the fun of it.

Oh, yes. So many combinations, so little time!

Best regards,

Kludge