Is it possible to set up an apartment shop?

[MechMan183]

Yes, this shop would just involve small machines right now. When I can afford a workshop with a house attached D) I'll get the bigger machines.

Since you are o n the ground floor things get much easier. Sound tends to travel down, not up.
For cutting metals consider a portable bandsaw, HF has them on sale at present.
I thing Gus is on this forum, he does all his work on a balcony. Cuts metal to size using a portable bandsaw bolted into upright position if memory serves.

My recollection of machining with my Taig, as lathe and milling, was that the noise I perceived was much greater than anyone outside the room noticed.

Gerrit

How much noise do bandsaws make? Although I suppose even if very loud, if only used for short periods of time to cut things, the neighbors probably wouldn't mind.

 

[bazmak]

mall lathe then it will only turn small items.A hacksaw will do all that is requd

 

[gerritv]

I have turned 3.5" on my Taig, not something I would like to saw off with a hacksaw, steel or aluminum
It is easy to underestimate what can be done on Taig, Unimat etc. Just look at some of Rudy Kohoupt's work. They are small but very capable.

Gerrit

 

[Wizard69]

So right now I live in an apartment, but I am really eager to start doing some machining work. My question is, is this doable with small hobby machine tools? I noticed that Sherline has a page on their website called "Compact Sherline Workshops:" http://www.sherline.com/shops.htm

On it they show miniature workshops. They say the following:

If you have an apartment or condominium you don't have to be left out of the fun of making fine, small projects. These machines make little more noise than a sewing machine and the mess they make can be cleaned up with a small vacuum cleaner or mini-shopvac.

My question is, is this really true? And would this apply to other mini-machine tool manufacturers as well?

Thanks

This is most certainly true. You will need to decide how large the machines you buy will be. The Sherline and Taigs being the smaller you should consider. For an apartment you would probably want to limit machine size at the upper end to around 150 pounds or so. The maximum machine size is pretty much a question of what you can easily handle and store.

You need to select machine size based on your interests, the small machines mean miniature sized models. The larger machines obviously allow you to do more. The very talented crew in this forum can give you many suggestions as to machines if you can list out some of your interests. Another thing to consider is going to a model engineering gathering and talking to some of the people that have their creations on display. You will be amazed by what people create often with nothing more than a lathe.

 

[Wizard69]

I have turned 3.5" on my Taig, not something I would like to saw off with a hacksaw, steel or aluminum

It is easy to underestimate what can be done on Taig, Unimat etc. Just look at some of Rudy Kohoupt's work. They are small but very capable.



Gerrit

This is so true, a trip to a model engineering show like NAMES or Cabin Fever should drive this home. There are really only two problems with the extremely small machines. The first is that it can take awhile to achieve you results. The second is that for some interests capacity wins.

Another thing to consider, if you get a small machine like a Sherline or Taig it really is a life long investment because the lathe remains useful for small stuff if you later buy a ten or twelve inch swing machine.

 

[MechMan183]

My main interest right now is just in learning to machine. However model engineering is a big interest as well, and I would like working at that to be part of the learning process. My plan is to set up a 48 inch wide workbench (or a 6 ft wide one if I can find a way to fit it). The lathe and milling machine will probably be stored in a closet.

The machines can't be too heavy for me to lift right now, however I am clueless as to what size machines I should be seeking. Are there any decently-priced middle-sized lathes hobbyists use, i.e. that are bigger than the mini lathes but not as large as the professional ones? As said model engineering is a big interest, but I might want to be machine bigger things as well. I notice Sieg has what they call mini lathes and bench lathes, both of which are labeled as being for model engineering. Is the bench lathe for bigger model engineering projects?

 

[bazmak]

I would recommend the Sieg sc2 7x14".About 40kg.I would buy a cheap 2nd hand set of drawers and fit wheels.If you want to spend money the motor mechanics tool chest on wheels would make an ideal workbench.This is one I made when I bought the Sc2 7x16".Gets heavy with all t he tooling

 

[hanermo3]

Imho..
There is no "right" answer.
The Sieg C2 / 40 kg is terribly limiting. This is also known as the 7x sized minilathe.

But fabulous work has been produced on them, by lots and lots and lots of people.

Way back, I made an upgraded bench for my 7x, that was a huge success, technically, and a total waste of money and time, commercially.
My super-rigid bench is steel, prestressed concrete, preloaded, rigid mount, 150 kg in mass.
Took about 200 work hours, and 250€ in money.
I can just lift it into place, on my own.

Yes, lathe 40 kg, mount 150 kg.
It made the lathe 2-3x more rigid, and 1/3 the noise.

I should have started with the 8x size lathe, == 100 kg.

Why ?
All my stuff is in steel.
Many workpieces are about 100-120 mm in the bigger axel.

A 7x series lathe is far too small to work in steel, in 7" sizes.
This is common, in lathes, and rule of thumb is half the size of typical workpiece.
Ie a 7x is good for about 3.5 ".
A 12x for 6" or so.

My mount is 90x65x12 cm .. so size of very small desk.
An 8" lathe would fit.105 kg.
An 10" would more or less, fit.
A 12x lathe is only 10 cm more, all around. 350 kg.

I would suggest the 8x lathe .. especially if you work with steel.

But every tool is too small.. eventually.
I upgraded to an industrial 12x, and then upgraded the 12x, vastly.
Its probably the most upgraded 12x24 in the world.

(Industrial CNC refit I did. 2.5 kW AC brushless servo spindle. C axis, etc)

So .. there is no "right" answer.
I highly recommend heavier is better. Rigidity is everything. More mass = much better.

The 8x is easily lifted into place by 2 helpers. Or get it delivered by seller.
Heavier = less noisy.
Bigger motors = less noisy (lower sound= less irritating).

Everything is a compromise in engineering.

 

[BillWood]

What sort of saws do people use in small workspaces ?

Are there appropriately sized bandsaws ? Surely the 4x6 are too big ?

I have seen Myfordboys hacksaw and other similar powered hacksaws in popular mechanics magazines.

I successfully implemented the idea below and converted a 14" wood bandsaw by powering it from the back end of the lathe headstock to get the right speed for cutting metal - I'm thinking I could also do that for a 9" wood bandsaw. Wish I'd been smart enough to think of that myself but saw it on Hobby Machinist Forum.

 

[MechMan183]

Imho..
There is no "right" answer.
The Sieg C2 / 40 kg is terribly limiting. This is also known as the 7x sized minilathe.

But fabulous work has been produced on them, by lots and lots and lots of people.

Way back, I made an upgraded bench for my 7x, that was a huge success, technically, and a total waste of money and time, commercially.
My super-rigid bench is steel, prestressed concrete, preloaded, rigid mount, 150 kg in mass.
Took about 200 work hours, and 250€ in money.
I can just lift it into place, on my own.

Yes, lathe 40 kg, mount 150 kg.
It made the lathe 2-3x more rigid, and 1/3 the noise.

I should have started with the 8x size lathe, == 100 kg.

Why ?
All my stuff is in steel.
Many workpieces are about 100-120 mm in the bigger axel.

A 7x series lathe is far too small to work in steel, in 7" sizes.
This is common, in lathes, and rule of thumb is half the size of typical workpiece.
Ie a 7x is good for about 3.5 ".
A 12x for 6" or so.

My mount is 90x65x12 cm .. so size of very small desk.
An 8" lathe would fit.105 kg.
An 10" would more or less, fit.
A 12x lathe is only 10 cm more, all around. 350 kg.

I would suggest the 8x lathe .. especially if you work with steel.

But every tool is too small.. eventually.
I upgraded to an industrial 12x, and then upgraded the 12x, vastly.
Its probably the most upgraded 12x24 in the world.

(Industrial CNC refit I did. 2.5 kW AC brushless servo spindle. C axis, etc)

So .. there is no "right" answer.
I highly recommend heavier is better. Rigidity is everything. More mass = much better.

The 8x is easily lifted into place by 2 helpers. Or get it delivered by seller.
Heavier = less noisy.
Bigger motors = less noisy (lower sound= less irritating).

Everything is a compromise in engineering.

Do lathes come in parts? For example, I noticed that the Harbor Freight Central Machinery 8x lathe is 256 lbs. If I had to move it by myself, could I take it apart and move the components, then re-assemble? Or is it all pre-assembled?

Also, what are the dimensions of these lathes? For example, the 8x lathe says 8 inches by 12 inches...is that the lathe itself, or how big of a workpiece it can handle? I saw a size comparison between the 7x and 8x Harbor Freights and the 8x is significantly larger.

 

[GailInNM]

Many years ago, think 1960 era, I was working on a communications project in the arctic regions. I had a Unimat lathe with milling column and table that was in a wooden box that I carried around to the various sites. Built several steam/air engines with that set up over a two year period. Not convenient, but it can be done.

On the saw issue, there are a number of hand held cutoff band saws that can be mounted on a stand. Years ago I saw one that could be locked vertical and a small table mounted on it for profiling. Metal Supermarket had a cutoff one for small quick jobs when their big saw was tied up. It was a name brand but IL don't remember what. Regardless of brand they all look something like this.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Portable-Bandsaw-with-Stand/G8692

Gail in NM

 

[sssfox]

Also, what are the dimensions of these lathes? For example, the 8x lathe says 8 inches by 12 inches...is that the lathe itself, or how big of a workpiece it can handle? I saw a size comparison between the 7x and 8x Harbor Freights and the 8x is significantly larger.

The dimensions you supplied are the maximum theoretical diameter and length of the workpiece. As a rough size, you can double those to get the dimensions of a small lathe that comes without a stand. In your example, I would use 16" x 16" x 24" or slightly larger as the lathe size.

One other thing you need to keep in mind is the storage space required for the tooling. I bought a rather large hand-held toolbox when I bought my 7x lathe. I had it completely filled within two days. Now, I have a base unit sized roll around mechanics tool chest and it is busting at the seams. The tooling is very heavy, too. You can't fill up a dresser and expect the drawers to operate as you would normally expect.

 

[MechMan183]

Do lathes come assembled or do you have to assemble them? I ask because the ability to disassemble would aid me in moving a heavy lathe.

The dimensions you supplied are the maximum theoretical diameter and length of the workpiece. As a rough size, you can double those to get the dimensions of a small lathe that comes without a stand. In your example, I would use 16" x 16" x 24" or slightly larger as the lathe size.

Thanks for the information.

One other thing you need to keep in mind is the storage space required for the tooling. I bought a rather large hand-held toolbox when I bought my 7x lathe. I had it completely filled within two days. Now, I have a base unit sized roll around mechanics tool chest and it is busting at the seams. The tooling is very heavy, too. You can't fill up a dresser and expect the drawers to operate as you would normally expect.

I look forward to this "problem"

 

[sssfox]

All the ones I am aware of come assembled.
Most of the Chinese ones need to be disassembled to clean the packing grease off everything before you can use it. The tailstock is easy to remove as is the carriage/cross slide. The headstock is usually aligned, so if you remove it, you have to realign it when you put it back. In my opinion, it's not practical to remove the head on a regular basis just for that reason. By far, most of the weight is in the head/bed assembly.

One other point, it is impossible to keep the metal swarf contained and you can't get it out of carpet. Even coating everything in plastic doesn't prevent the swarf getting into everything. It's like cat litter. If you have a cat, you know what I mean. Also like sand if you live near a beach.

 

[MechMan183]

One other point, it is impossible to keep the metal swarf contained and you can't get it out of carpet. Even coating everything in plastic doesn't prevent the swarf getting into everything. It's like cat litter. If you have a cat, you know what I mean. Also like sand if you live near a beach.

How do people engage in machining then in apartments?

 

[canadianhorsepower]

How do people engage in machining then in apartments?

Build your shop to the size you can.

I think you are smart enough to figure out
a way to pick up your swarf

:wall::wall:

 

[sssfox]

I have a 7x lathe and a small mill in my dining room.
I have hardwood floors and that helps, but I vacuum constantly.
I worked on the lathe for half an hour this afternoon and I swept and vacuumed three times.
It's a constant problem. Aluminum and brass aren't too bad, but steel and especially cast iron throw chips for many feet.

Steel/iron swarf rusts when it sits in carpet for a while. It makes little orange spots that don't go away. It can be better or worse, depending on humidity and where you live. I live in Florida, two blocks from a bay, so it's especially bad.

I've only known one person who had his tools set up in an apartment bedroom and he removed the carpet when he moved in and put it back when he moved out. The owner said that was preferable to leaving it in place. It took him half an hour to take it up and 45 minutes to put it down.

If that wasn't an option, I believe I would buy a large area rug and cover the entire work area. Just plan on throwing it away when you leave.

 

[MechMan183]

Build your shop to the size you can.

I think you are smart enough to figure out
a way to pick up your swarf

:wall::wall:

The impression I got from sssfox was that it wasn't able to be picked up, that was what I meant. Of course if it gets around but can be picked up, then that's just a matter of some vacuuming and a dustbuster.

 

[sssfox]

It can be picked up, but it has sharp edges that stick to any fibers, like clothing or carpet. I have never been able to vacuum it out of carpet. I guess it could depend on the type of carpet, some is denser than others and the quality of the vacuum. It sticks to your shoes, so it gets tracked all over.

Washing detergent seems to accelerate rusting. I have found a lot of rusty spots on my clothes right after machining and then washing/drying. Now, I have several shirts that I make sure I wear when machining steel/cast iron. I even tried removing swarf from my clothes with a magnet, but I never seemed to get all of it, hence the rust spots.

I'm not trying to discourage you from machining in your apartment. In fact, I hope you do. I'm just trying to make you aware of issues that you may not expect.

 

[canadianhorsepower]

It would be nice to see your shop :hDe:
we could all use it as an example.
or any post you are working on matter of fack

cheers