Indicator Holders and Such...

[zeeprogrammer]

Have one of those brains that sits outside the cave pondering till problem solved./quote]

I think you're right.

The more I play around with it...the more I'm beginning to think it's backlash. If you remember the 1st video, I get that for the full 360. The 'tink-tink' is one gear knocking up against the other. Both directions.

I know that some people have put in a mode to replace with belt drive. That's probably in my future too.

Thanks.

 

[spuddevans]

This one shows what I meant by 'cogging'. You can feel a definite 'cog'. I don't feel this on the lathe. But the lathe is belt driven and I haven't looked closely at the mill. I'm remembering other threads that talk about modifying this part of the mill (i.e. replacing the gears?).

Hi Zee, I've just watched all your videos and can assure you that the sound on your videos is completely normal. I have a X2 as well, and until I made and installed a beltdrive conversion mine sounded exactly the same, and had the same "cogging" or stepping effect when turning the spindle by hand.

I think the best thing I did to the mill was to convert it to belt drive, it is so much quieter and smoother, I cannot reccomend it enough to all X2 mill owners.


Tim

 

[Foozer]

Hi Zee, I've just watched all your videos and can assure you that the sound on your videos is completely normal. I have a X2 as well, and until I made and installed a beltdrive conversion mine sounded exactly the same, and had the same "cogging" or stepping effect when turning the spindle by hand.

I think the best thing I did to the mill was to convert it to belt drive, it is so much quieter and smoother, I cannot reccomend it enough to all X2 mill owners.


Tim

Got to be kidding, gears tight enough to give a resist, no wonder the belt drive mod is so popular. That gear train noise would drive me crazy. But then plastic molded gears keep the cost down. Actually liking the looks of that little mill, might just get me one so I can chuck that Hi/Low fork to the bottom of a deep well

 

[Foozer]

The more I play around with it...the more I'm beginning to think it's backlash. If you remember the 1st video, I get that for the full 360. The 'tink-tink' is one gear knocking up against the other. Both directions.

I know that some people have put in a mode to replace with belt drive. That's probably in my future too.

Thanks.

Yup grabbed the kids laptop and found a hotspot. Tight gear engagement, I'd have a spare set of gears stashed away. Noise make heat, heat makes failure, failure makes empty bottle (or two) of tequila

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Tim...thanks very much. That takes a load off the mind. I have come across that mod several times now. I also want to do the column extension mod. Probably after the next project (or mill failure - whichever comes first).

Foozer...thanks.

Unless there's a good reason not to or people suggest otherwise, I think I'll rename this thread and restart the 'Indicator Holders and Such...'.

No complaint mind you...I think this was worthwhile.

What should I call it?
"Zee's Detour Number 1"? (In anticipation.)
"Zee's Problem That Wasn't Number 1"? (Again, in anticipation.)

Maybe just "X2 Spindle 'Cogging'"

Thanks.

 

[AlanHaisley]

Marv:
...
In any case...you suggested using steel rather than aluminum. As one would expect...I have little knowledge here. You had mentioned in another thread that 1018 doesn't give the best finish but I don't think I'm looking for that here. Any other suggestions? Or better...point me to a thread or source that discusses metals. I also see that 12L14 seems to be popular.

Carl,

I threw together a piece for tramming. I used 3/8" drill rod to fit my usual endmill holder, threaded one end and screwed it into a threaded hole in a piece of keystock. The end of the keystock was drilled through to let me bolt on an indicator that had a bolt flange on the back. It's not fancy at all and will be replaced with something with a bit more utility when I have time.

It turns out that drill rod doesn't want to rust very much. Also, keystock seems to be cadmium plated or something so it doesn't rust either.

I knew that I didn't need perfection in squareness - just stiffness. I can sweep one side of the table to the other, all that I needed for tramming.

You mentioned at one point wanting a vise stop and were concerned about squareness, etc. I suggest making one twice. All it really requires is to force the same positioning of the subject pieces each time you clamp them. Cobble one together if needed; stiff enough to do the job. Later, Make one that you would be proud to show your friends. (The first one can help positioning for the second build.)

Alan

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Later, Make one that you would be proud to show your friends. (The first one can help positioning for the second build.)

Thanks for the vote of confidence...I was thinking 3 or 4 before I got to proud. :big:

Thanks for the comments on tramming. Maybe I'm going about this wrong...do I make a tool for tramming? Or a more flexible general purpose dial indicator holder system thingy. I was hoping for the GP but I'm having trouble finding examples.

That reminds me...someone (well I know who...but since it came in 'messages' I will maintain privacy) mentioned some Model Engineer Workshop articles and that these mags can sometimes be found at Barnes and Noble. Well BN is sufficient distance to take away from my hobby time so I wanted to subscribe. (I currently get Model Engineer). What gives? They don't send to the US? I get ME just fine. Anyone else have this problem?

 

[Foozer]

Thanks for the vote of confidence...I was thinking 3 or 4 before I got to proud. :big:

Thanks for the comments on tramming. Maybe I'm going about this wrong...do I make a tool for tramming? Or a more flexible general purpose dial indicator holder system thingy. I was hoping for the GP but I'm having trouble finding examples.

Yes! make one and a GP is fine, Seanol's tram tool is simple, the extension out of stout stock i.e. say 3/4 dia X 6 inch will keep any 'sag well below worry stage. Using just a DI will get your table plenty close enough for hobby work (0.0005) From there you can make a special purpose tool (I Know) or find that what you have is fine. Just remember that the temporary solution often becomes the permanent so polish it up a bit Some DTI's have a pin mount which can be also accommodated in Seanol's tram tool.

Wing it, show us what you come up with. Cant be worse than the contraptions I dream up

Added: read the thread and picked some of the best practices. Altered my gizmo to also accept a DTI. Now the DTI has a pin for a mount of 0.250 dia and the DI has a 0.375 mount. Gizmo already has a 0.375 hole to accept the DI so turned a piece of brass to 0.370 +/- with a 0.250 inner hole. Left a bit of a shoulder on top and cut a flat down the side. Used a hacksaw and cut a slot down the side of this bushing. So the bushing goes into the 0.375 hole with flat towards bolt. The DTI slips in the other end, snug the bolt a bit and the clamping action holds it all together. Like the clamping as the DTI does cost a buck or two more than the DI so little effort to keep it in better shape is in order. Like the sliding bar version shown earlier, easy enough and increases versatility.

Got to start with something, get used to the operation then improve it should the hobby or personal choice demand greater curb appeal

 

[DavesWimshurst]

Carl,
I get mine through EWA Magazines, US HWY 22, Green Brook, NJ 08812-1090

https://www.ewa1.com/

or more specifically:

https://www.ewa1.com/cgi-bin/sshp/s...=mgs subscript&cols=1&c=search.htm&&scount=61

Hope this helps
Dave

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Thanks Dave.
That's where I get my Model Engineer too. I hadn't thought to try there. Now I can expect to get Model Engineer Workshop. Goodie!

 

[arnoldb]

Carl, I just got my latest copy of Model Engineer's Workshop (No 151 - June 2009) today - the publishers KNEW you had this question :big:

There is a very nice article in it about DI/DTI accessories

(I KNOW it's July already, but magazines here in Namibia arrive a bit late from overseas : )
Regards, Arnold

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Carl, I just got my latest copy of Model Engineer's Workshop (No 151 - June 2009) today - the publishers KNEW you had this question :big:

There is a very nice article in it about DI/DTI accessories

(I KNOW it's July already, but magazines here in Namibia arrive a bit late from overseas : )
Regards, Arnold

Sometimes when I subscribe I get the last or even the pre-last issue. Maybe I'll be lucky! Thanks.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Timing is everything. Another member, 'Shadow' was kind enough to send me some MEW info. Thank you 'Shadow'. I believe it's what you were talking about Arnold.

I think it's what I was looking for. I wanted some blocks to hold rods. But I wanted them to be kind of short. Marv suggested 'split blocks' that would clamp without damaging the rods. I had thought about set screws. The problem I had was keeping them short. It seemed they would have to be about 2" long. The articles that 'Shadow' helped me with provides for about a 1" long block yet split. I also like the fact that it addresses mounting a DTI.

So the next step is to start some drawings and getting an idea about materials or supplies.

I intend to use aluminum for the blocks (joints) and what I guess are called nuts. Mainly because I have it. The articles call out steel...but I don't know why.

I also probably won't go 'beauty' and will keep the nuts and levers pretty plain and right-angled.

I'll order up some steel for the rods...but for now I can use some aluminum I have.

The biggest problem I'll have are the screws. The articles talk about hex head and turning them down to a tapered head. The blocks then are also tapered. But you're supposed to make a taper bit out of drill rod. I can't say I want to go that route yet. I'm wondering why a socket head cap screw couldn't be used as is (other than the head is a bit high).

My suspicion is that having a tapered screw head and a taper in the block would work like putting a chuck in the tailstock of a lathe. Otherwise...I suppose the screw could simply turn round and round and not tighten up.

I'll probably experiment with turning down the screw head (using a split nut to hold it like I did for the machinist jacks). Maybe I can use the 4 jaw to hold the block and cut a taper in it?

Can you turn a socket head cap screw? Well tomorrow I'll hit the local hardware store and find some 1/4-20 hex bolts. That's probably the ticket.

I'll be interested in what people think. I'll start on drawings and pics soon.

It'll be paper and pencil. I'm somewhat burned out on learning new software tools. I've had a lot of that lately at work. One of the many reasons I chose this hobby is that it's not software but still exercises the ol' wetware.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

The blocks are probably going to be 0.5x0.5x1.0". A 3/8" hole for a rod. A something bigger than 1/4" for the screw. The nut then would take a 1/4-20 and be no more than 0.5" in diameter.

The handle on the nut would have to be a much smaller diameter. After playing with my aluminum (hey!) I can see why steel would be better. the smaller diameter lever bends and I suspect the threading to attach it to the nut won't last long.

But...given that the nut is at most 0.5" diameter...I'm thinking I'll do away with the lever and simply knurl the nut. Twist it by hand. I can't imagine the required strength to be that high. I'm not even sure why I would bother with a blind hole on the nut. Why not goes all way through?

Now...if I were to be thinking about selling this...I'd purty it up. But my goal is to get my mill trammed. I have an engine to build.

 

[Foozer]

The blocks are probably going to be 0.5x0.5x1.0". A 3/8" hole for a rod. A something bigger than 1/4" for the screw. The nut then would take a 1/4-20 and be no more than 0.5" in diameter.

The handle on the nut would have to be a much smaller diameter. After playing with my aluminum (hey!) I can see why steel would be better. the smaller diameter lever bends and I suspect the threading to attach it to the nut won't last long.

But...given that the nut is at most 0.5" diameter...I'm thinking I'll do away with the lever and simply knurl the nut. Twist it by hand. I can't imagine the required strength to be that high. I'm not even sure why I would bother with a blind hole on the nut. Why not goes all way through?

Now...if I were to be thinking about selling this...I'd purty it up. But my goal is to get my mill trammed. I have an engine to build.

Got a C-O-C to go with your idea, a sketch. Making some sort of articulated arm to hold a DTI?

Edit: Trying to figure what your making, anything like this? Split clamp for 3/8 1/4 mounts with a dovetail provision. Little doda on center shaft to grip positioning rod.

 

[JimM]

The biggest problem I'll have are the screws. The articles talk about hex head and turning them down to a tapered head. The blocks then are also tapered. But you're supposed to make a taper bit out of drill rod. I can't say I want to go that route yet. I'm wondering why a socket head cap screw couldn't be used as is (other than the head is a bit high).

I've just made a couple of these clamps, my first ever practical piece of metalwork !

I also didn't fancy trying to taper the screws, my solution was to countersink the screw hole and silver solder a standard countersunk screw in place. Working fine so far

HTH

Jim

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Robert: Close. Get rid of the hole on the left and move that center screw to the left. Get rid of the screw on the right. Now put two side by side with that screw going through both. Tightening a nut on the end of the screw will squeeze both splits and clamp the rods that would go through the other two holes. Articulates. Doda on one end can hold the DTI.

I'll be doing some drawing (sketching, scribbling) this weekend. But you got it.

Jim: Another reference to silver solder! I'm going to have to try it some time. I wondered about using flat head cap screws...then I'd have the taper. But I don't know enough about screws yet to know if I can get the length, whether the taper depth is too big, or if the diameter of the head is too big...and so on. I have some learning and experimenting to do this weekend.

Thanks all.

 

[vlmarshall]

Another reference to silver solder! I'm going to have to try it some time... I have some learning and experimenting to do this weekend.

Do it! Go get a torch, flux, and rod. Stick some stuff together. ;D

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Do it! Go get a torch, flux, and rod. Stick some stuff together. ;D

'stuff' may include me. Then I'll send a pic and you can play "find the 3 differences" between the pic and your avatar. It'll keep you busy. :big:

 

[vlmarshall]

'stuff' may include me. Then I'll send a pic and you can play "find the 3 differences" between the pic and your avatar. It'll keep you busy. :big:

:big: Rof} :bow: Too funny!