Hi speed steel inserts in UK

[Omnimill]

The OP was talking about turning tools not reamers. Given the cost and relative ease of sharpening of HSS tools I don't even use carbon steel tools for wood turning. When I've needed to I've made reamers from silver steel and I always have a few lengths of gauge plate handy but I would'nt use either for turning tools. Personal choice I suppose.

 

[abby]

I doubt that anyone uses carbon steel turning tools , the exception being complex form tools which as I said would be nigh on impossible to grind from HSS without specialist grinding equipment.

 

[gus]

Omnimill
The heat treatment of HSS is beyond most model engineering workshops , it requires very high temperatures and salt baths of nasty chemicals.
So it is supplied in it's hardened state , it cannot be milled or turned , the only way to fashion a tool is by grinding , for making accurate form_tools this is not easy without a T&C grinder.
Silver steel and gauge plate are supplied in the unhardened condition , for special tool shapes such as D-bits , taper reamers , radius cutters etc , the tool can be shaped accurately using the lathe or milling machine or even by filing.
It is possible to make form relieved cutters for gear cutting and all manner of milling cutters as well as simple lathe tools.
After shaping silver steel tools are easily hardened and tempered prior to sharpening and if correctly designed will cut as well as HSS , although not for as long.
Care must be taken to keep them from over heating and loosing their temper so slower speeds and lighter cuts !

Hi Abby

Please enlightened Gus on T&C Grinder.

LMS has a CD on "How to Grind HSS bits? Might buy it just to see if this old dog missed out any new n old tricks.

 

[Tin Falcon]

I doubt that anyone uses carbon steel turning tools , the exception being complex form tools which as I said would be nigh on impossible to grind from HSS without specialist grinding equipment.

I do not want to turn this into a HSS vs silver steel/ drill rod debate. IMHO both have vast applications.
the main difference I see is that drill rod can easy be machined then heat treated and used for cutting. it comes in annealed form.
great for mini boring bars D bit reamers punches etc.

Abby IMHO HSS grinding is only limited by ones imagination.
I ground the form bit for this with common hobby tools. It just takes an artists eye and a steady hand.

The bit was an inexpensive 1/2 square blank.
Tin

 

[goldstar31]

Gus, some days ago, I downloaded a series of over 100 pages on the subject. What wasthe result please?

norman

 

[abby]

It would be a LOT more meaningful to folks in the rest of the world if, instead of an unknown coin, a scale of some sort (inch for us in the US ) was used. I bet not one a thousand have any idea how big that coin is. I know I don't.
...lew...
__________________
...lew...Albuquerque (there is only one) NM USA

That was a PM I received after recently posting a photo using a coin for size reference !!!!

Tin I do not consider this a debate , just an attempt to answer a members question in simple terms.

I believe your post is a good example , why would anyone spend time using a Dremel or whatever, grinding an expensive piece of HSS to produce a form tool that could have been made in less time from a cheaper material by filing ?
May I also point out that an "artist's eye and steady hand " are hardly terms relating to accurate engineering practice.
The form tool for producing the mini candle stick , whilst very pretty , hardly requires any degree of accuracy.

 

[Tin Falcon]

first of all does this help?

Dime
United States
Value 0.10 U.S. dollar
Mass 2.268 g (0.0729 troy oz)
Diameter 17.91 mm (0.705 in)
Thickness 1.35 mm (0.053 in)
Edge 118 reeds
Composition 91.67% Cu
8.33% Ni

second a hand and eye forming can be quite precise the only difference between a precisely formed tool and an artist one is the means of measurement.
this form can be quantified with an optical compararator or a toolmakers microscope. and be compared to a print and measured.

The point I was trying to make is HSS can be formed in complex shapes with tools commonly found in a home shop. And tools that are afordable to the Home shop machinist.

I do see you point it probably would have been easier to form from silver steel.
Tin

 

[MuellerNick]

first of all does this help?
Dime

How do I know it is a dime? If I include a 50 €-cent coin showing the back, would you know that it is an € and its value is 50 cent?
I'll look for some coins. Lira, Austrian Schilling, Drachme, Franc, Swiss Franken, D-Mark, … and we can make a contest out of it.


Nick

 

[Omnimill]

A Double A or Triple A battery with the markings clearly visible may be a better choice to illustrate size but I'm sure there must be other "universals" out there.

 

[goldstar31]

Perhaps a ruler might help? And then we'll get someone for sure that will argue about whether the Imperial or Metric scale is better.

Are we all feeling liverish after the New Year?

 

[goldstar31]

I'm in the middle of something far more complicated than tool and cutter grinding but here's the simplest tool and cutter grinder.
You need the ability to multiply by 0.0088" , a bit of wood or ruler and a grinder.
You want to grind a 7 degree on a lathe tool? For every 1 degree( 0.0088" you multiply it by 7(degrees) and then by the diameter of yor own wheel in inches. So for a 6" wheel ---0.0088x7x6= 0.3696" or as best you can 3/8ths of an inch from the centre of the wheel. Professor Dennis H Chaddock CBE and whatever worked it out for his Quorn book- but it is as simple as that!

OK, you have now a lathe tool with a slight arc- you can remove it by putting an abrasive stick or diamond file or oilstone across it to hone it.

____________________________________________________________________________________

I, gentlemen, test out my ancient head just doing simple maths.

Next? Oh, yes,Tax Returns in Euros and I'm still in British pounds

Norman

 

[Tin Falcon]

Maybe some feeling a little cabin fever. as long as it is all in good fun. I'l have to dig up the loose change from my trip to the UK the next time I take a photo.
Tin

 

[gus]

HMM I know this is not answering your question the only supplier I know about is A.W. Warner in Latrobe PA Mike makes great tools.
Tin

Hi Tin Falcon,

I just ordered one Warner Boring Bar yesterday with HSS .
With a mini lathe,my experience with carbide inserts been not so good.
With 300Watts output and a hard to tension vee belt drive,cutting power is not very great.Just for fun,plan to monkey around with SAE Grade 5 n 8 fasteners to use as cutting bits.Your two cents worth ,Please.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Just for fun,plan to monkey around with SAE Grade 5 n 8 fasteners to use as cutting bits.Your two cents worth ,Please.

Off hand do not know if it would work or not. I would have to research it.
IMHO you only have a few bolts some propane and time to lose. I tell folks the home shop is like a university engineering lab. no mistakes just learning experiences. So if you want to do some research and testing then giver er a try.
worst case scenario you spend a couple hours and few bucks to find out that they will not harden and make lousy cutters. IS tool steel that hard to come by where you are or are you just curious.

BTW congrats on the warner purchase I have enjoyed using mine. IIRC I have a triange turning set a diamond combo set and a second boring bar. hope you like it.
Tin

 

[ShopShoe]

I have tried Grade 5, but afraid Grade 8 to hard. My Grade 5 was local hardware-store purchased and variable as to quality and machineability. I added some ground flat tool steel and some different types of drill rod to one of my purchases from an industrial supplier and had a much better experience. Some vendors mark down these items on their monthly specials and that's when I look at buying.

--ShopShoe

 

[Tin Falcon]

Here in the states you should be able to get 1/4 in HSS bits for $ 1.25 each or $2.50 for 5% cobalt. this is a ball park for run of the mill import stuff. quality american brands can be 5 times this.
Tin

 

[capin]

Gus, I recently bought a bunch of bits from them and LOVE them. I got a bunch of sizes for my Nickole cutoff tool and they last me a lot longer buy far and if it gets dull you just hit it with a stone and back in action and they last me a lot longer. I got some ccmt's cnmg's and tmng's. I might never get carbides again after these. Good luck, Brian

 

[gus]

Been very interesting,with so many expertise on HSS and Silver Steel and SAE Grade 5 and 8 Steel Fasteners.My father used the kingpin to make cupping punches for steel rivets.

OK .Has anyone tried the humble allen keys. I recycle the discarded/surplus as prick punch. They are much harder than the commercial punches that goes dull/blunt after a short while.

Ex-hardware shop punches.After many trial& error I could harden old prick punch better than as bought.

 

[abby]

Gus - allen keys make excellent broaches for hexagon holes such as box spanners , I use them fully hardened with no tempering.