File work; A few words.

[GrahamC]

Well done Dean.

I just wanted to add that like every type of tool, get the best you can find and afford, they are life long investments and will last if properly maintained.

I use chalk (kids sidewalk chalk) on my files. I have two small files I keep on the lathe for the purpose of breaking edges and simple deburring and they generally have some cutting oil on them but I don't go out of my way in that respect.

There has been mention of filing buttons and filing rests but no pictures. Filing buttons are very handy for filing round corners on things and are nothing more than rounds with a hole in the middle that are bolted into a hole near the corner and used to guide the file. Filing rests are frequently used on lathes and you will find lots of reference and pictures of such devices in use on small jewellers size lathe (but also on larger ones too). A quick Google search will bring lots of results for filing rests. It amazes me the ingenuity of those who work with their hands and the excellent results that can be had with the simplest of tools.

I use files a lot. I don't have a mill and even if I did I would probably grab for a file to do a simple job in 10 minutes than spend 30 setting up the mill. Draw filing is something I do almost every day - cross filing to rough into shape, draw filing to level, smooth and prepare to finish. Sometimes the finish left from draw filing is sufficient.

I have attached a couple of photos that show some work done to a cheap import surface gage. The gage was usable in it's purchased form but was rather rough. I am in the process of cleaning it up. First job today was to clean up the adjustment/mounting arm. It looks like this piece is made of cast iron or flame cut low carbon steel and very roughly finished. looks like it was deburred on an off hand grinder.

First photo shows one side after a very quick draw filing to level it out and start the smoothing process. The remaining large void was the largest and deepest of the surface irregularities. This particular side was about 60% covered in similar large rough voids.

Second photo shows the same side after a rough finish draw filing and the third photo shows the same side after a quick lapping on 400 grit wet or dry and oil.


Total time: about 15 minutes

 

[Deanofid]

Kevin, (joeby), I had a section on handles in the original post, but there's a lot of text there, so it may have been over looked, and is worth your reminder, (and repeating again);

"The other hand goes on the HANDLE. You need handles on all
your files. That goes double if you are using the file on the lathe! The handle not only gives you something to hold onto. It keeps the file tang from piercing your tender body if you should happen to run the file into a spinning lathe chuck. It also greatly increases your control of the file, helping you make better cuts."

Graham, that piece cleaned up nicely, and is a good example of finish work with a file. Thanks for including the pictures.

Thanks again for the response to this, everyone. Great to see all the added info!

Dean

 

[joeby]

Dean,

Yep, went back and reread your post, sure enough it's there.

Great post BTW.

Kevin

 

[Tin Falcon]

Ok guys does anyone here have there files sharpened ? No I am not kidding there is a place near LA Southern California USA that sharpens files.
Several years ago I was at a black smith seminar near me . They had a professional blade smith/ knife maker doing a demo. He had his shop flooded and he sent his file collection out to be refurbished. IIRC the price was quite reasonable.
Anyway the place is http://www.boggstool.com/index.htm they will do two files or burrs free for new customers and promise a 75% savings ore more over new tooling resharpening services include
• hand files • drill bits • counterbores • rasps • spot facers • burrs • countersinks • key cutters • reamers • milling cutters • end mills • roughing mills • taps • shellmills
they will also resurface diamond tools and will diamond coat customers blanks. there are no prices for most stuff on there site but you can e -mail or call for a price quote. I will post this info in the link section as well.
Tin

 

[Deanofid]

I've never had any of mine sharpened, Tin. A farrier friend said he sent his out, but I never thought much about it, really.

The files I use are mostly Nicholson or Simonds, and they are, as far as I know, good quality, although they are not any kind of specialty make, like Grobet. Most 8" files in the cuts I use by Nicholson or Siimonds are about $10 without a handle.

I'd be kind of surprised if they could sharpen them, or my Atrax end mills for the cost of new. I think I'll write and find out. It would be worth while if a guy had a number of them to do, and could fit them into a USPO flat rate box.

Thanks for the suggestion.

Dean

 

[lathe nut]

Dean, love the write up, I use files and have a lot of them and proud to say handles on all of them, I pick them up at yard sales and flea markets, looks like most people don't think that they are needed or to much work to use, truth don't know how to use them, my first encounter with a file when I was a young one on a Rice farm, learn to file a shovel or work like a dog in the dirt, no handles back then and it would slip in my hand and cut finger, got better at that.
I visited with an old machinist a few weeks ago, he was 90 years old said that he went to a machinist school in New Orleans he thinks it was in the late 20's, he said that they gave them a hunk of metal, hammer, chisel, files, Mike, told them when the metal hunk was a two inch square to come back, he said a lot of them washed out, he was in WW2 a machinist on a sub tender, he thinks that the still has the block of metal, going to go back in visit with him, he often talked about filing how much he love it.
Thanks again, Lathe Nut

 

[rog/tn]

In addition to chalk, I keep a piece of 1/2"brass rod with my files.
I use the brass to clean out the stuff that the file card won't remove.
This works particularly well for aluminum stuck in the file.
Learned this trick when I had to share files with a bunch of kids in shop class.
Great tutorial and pictures. :bow:
rog

 

[dsquire]

Hi All

Something else that works when chalk and brass fail to do the job on those stubborn little bit of swarf that don't want to let go is a sharp pointed awl. It may be slow but it gets the bits that want to hang on.

Cheers

Don

 

[twright]

Great thread! To turn it upside down a bit... I've taken an old file and tacked it to the leg of my welding table, when I need to sharpen my soapstone I give it a couple strokes on the file.

I prefer to hang my files near my table since I do use them a lot, but have yet to see a satisfactory holder for this. I used to use a wooden one I built but it got lost in the shuffle years ago. I switched to one of these plastic multi hole tool holders from Home Depot but it is sagging under the weight. Anyone want to show how they hang tools such as files?

I don't mean to hijack a thread so if a new topic line is warranted let me know.

Thanks, great site!
Tony

 

[Deanofid]

Thanks for the added suggestions, folks!

Tony, I think your post is right on topic. Storing your files in some way that they won't damage each other is a good point.

Dean

 

[cobra428]

My Dad (a tool and die maker) since he locked up his tools at night after work he made sheits for them out of multiple wraps of brown paper bag. This way he could put them in the tool box. Me, I just pounded 2-1/2" finishing nails into the wall next to my lathe and hang them from there. Always handy to use.

Tony

 

[Alan J. Richer]

WHile putting away a set of wrenches i bought a few years ago i realized I was left with the "holder" that the wrenches came in.

Think a triangular piece of plastic with individual "hooks" that the wrenches would normally clip into - 12 slots long.

Mounted it to the pegboard above my bench, and it's a perfect holder for files - little ones on top (can share a slot so a pair is possible for triangular/round) and the larger ones below. Alternate the handles for clearance and it gets a lot of tooling in a very little space - and still easy to access.

 

[phlegmatic]

As a gunsmith files are my most used tool. Few thigs I can add to this topic is (from my own experience): Files can be bent by heat to any desired need; and ground to fit any space; I dont like chalk, if I need it the file is bad, only files with bent teeth need it usually. Be careful when breaking in a file, its most vunarebe then to bend the teeth. Files used to be resharpend by rusteing them and the carding off the rust, never tried it but read it often in old manuals.

Files built the first lathe...

 

[phlegmatic]

On emore thing, Bacho sells THE best files ever imho! Can be called Sandvik in some places....perhaps?

And make sure teh bench is sturdy with the biggest vise u can get! Vibrations in the setup will make a difference! A concrete floor with a heavy wall mounted bench is what we strive for!

 

[Powder keg]

I tell people that files are a "Machine shop on a stick". Gets em laughing)

 

[vlmarshall]

I tell people that files are a "Machine shop on a stick".

Gonna have to remember that one. ;D

 

[rickharris]

When I joined the RAF as an electronics engineer in 1966 the first session of workshop training was a brass block, a drawing and the instruction to mark out and file to size a cube.

The instructor had a go no-go gauge in his draw and the first few "fast workers" got their unsatisfactory efforts binned and a new block issued.

The rest of us took a bit more care when we saw this - Fortunately my engineer father had taught me to mark out and file. A valuable lesson though.

 

[Mutley]

I may have missed it in this thread, but "Phlegmatic" said that a file needs breaking in and being as i have just taken delivery of a couple of brand new bacho files, is this true and is their a procedure for it????

 

[phlegmatic]

I may have missed it in this thread, but "Phlegmatic" said that a file needs breaking in and being as i have just taken delivery of a couple of brand new bacho files, is this true and is their a procedure for it????

This is a observation Ive made myself. What I mean is that ive noticed that files cut smother after a while, give better finish. Breaking in is just using it carefully and not harming the teeth; that ive noticed are more sensitive when new.

 

[Maryak]

I may have missed it in this thread, but "Phlegmatic" said that a file needs breaking in and being as i have just taken delivery of a couple of brand new bacho files, is this true and is their a procedure for it????

Mutley,

IMHO it's true and my procedure is to use the file(s) on brass or bronze, (not copper or aluminium as they gall too easily), before using them on steel or cast iron. Say 10 mins actual filing per file trying to use all of the length and each of the sides.

Hope this helps

Best Regards
Bob

Edit: Using each of the sides is difficult with a round file but ..................... :