ER 32 collet holder

[gbritnell]

While were on the subject of ER collets and such I have a question for the members.
I thought I would like an ER 32 collet set for my mill. That way I wouldn't have to change the R8 holders all the time. Seeing a wide range of prices for these sets and not being in a hurry I watched Ebay for quite some time.
Finally what looked like a good deal came up. Knowing the quality, or lack thereof, of some Chinese tools I asked the seller why he was selling the set and what was the accuracy of the tool. He responded that he had bought the set and then decided that it wasn't what he wanted and that the few times he used it he hadn't checked the accuracy. I decided to give it a try so I purchased it.
When it arrived several of the collets hadn't even been unwrapped and the rest of the tool looked nice, wooden box and all. The first thing I did was install the holder and put and indicator to it. The inside taper was .0025 out of concentric. I thought this can't be so I pulled the holder and checked my spindle bore for debris and indicated it, although I've never had any runout problems with my spindle. The spindle was clean and had no indicator movement at all so I re-inserted the ER collet holder for another try, same results.
Now I'm upset!
I went over to my buddies shop where he has some very nice machinery with R8 spindles and did the same checks, with the same results.
At that point I contacted the seller and told him of my findings. He got a little indignant and said he paid almost $200.00 for the set but didn't have any problems when he used it. Maybe he didn't! Maybe he didn't even know what tool runout was.
At that point I put it aside figuring I got taken and would use it as a lesson learned.
Now it's been bothering me every time I see the box in the corner of the shop so I thought I would look into a new holder. I didn't even consider the ones on Ebay so I looked at some other suppliers. The prices really run the gamut, $25.00 to $150.00.
I decided on one from a well used supplier in the States that does handle Chinese tooling. He had 2 versions, the inexpensive one and the more expensive one that guarantees .0002 runout for $60.00, slightly more than I paid for the whole original set.
When it came it looked beautiful, for a tool that is. It was ground all over with a satin chrome look to it. The tapers also had an excellent grind finish on them.
I couldn't wait. I ran down to the shop and installed it in my spindle. :redface2:
.0022 out.
I got on the phone immediately and told the supplier of my plight. He said no problem what would I like to do, credit my account or have them send out another holder. I told him I would really like to have a holder so they sent a shipping label and said as soon as they got it back they would send out another.
Last week the new one arrived, looking much like the first one but completely sealed in cellophane so I know it wasn't the same one that I sent back.
I went downstairs to the shop but not quite as quickly as in the past. I installed it and did the indicator checks. th_wtf1 On top of it being out of concentric by .0018 the retaining ridge in the nut was too large and you couldn't even install the collets.
I called them up and said it was being sent back and to credit my account.
At this point I have no idea what to do. I would really like to use the collets but am really tired of playing tag with this inferior tooling. Does anyone know of a quality ER 32/R8 holder that is reasonably priced, in the $100.00 range?
George

 

[moconnor]

Hello George,

I have purchased ETM tooling for my milling machines and have been very happy with the quality and accuracy of their adapters and ER collets. The last time I needed an adapter that ETM no longer supplied, I tried Accu-Pro, which is available from MSC and was very pleased with their products as well. If you watch for the sales that MSC have, especially at this time of the year, you can get 25 or 30% off if you can put an order together of five or more items or a total of $199.00, which are two of their more popular sales conditions. I bought a set of ER-25 collets and completed my set of ETM ER-32 collets last year at this time and received 35% off which was a really great deal.

If you are looking for an R8 to ER-32 collet chuck, I can highly recommend the ETM model because that is what I have and use. I don't remember off hand what the run out was when I checked it after I purchased it several years ago, but I do remember being very impressed. I checked the collet taper directly in the adapter and the .0001" indicator barely showed movement. I also checked it with a 3/8" diameter HSS drill blank in a collet at several intervals away from the spindle with a .0001" indicator and the TIR was on the order of tenths of a thou. I can't run down and check it at the moment because I just had surgery to repair nerve damage in my left arm and am unable to loosen or tighten the drawbar of the mill for another 8 weeks.

The better quality collet chucks will have a thrust bearing in the closing nut to reduce friction, which is important in order to properly tighten the collet. Hope that you have better luck with the next collet chuck that you try.

Regards,
Mike

 

[BobsModels]

Hi George

I had always wanted a ER25 set for my 8530 mill. I had investigated sets and talked to folks who had purchased under $300 sets. Most were very unhappy. So I just forgot about it. Last summer I started on 1/8 scale Galloway , which you gave me some advice on - thanks again. I decided it was time to just bite the bullet, and as one of my advisors says - life is short so buy the best.

I purchased a ETM 25 set when MSC had 20% sale. cost for everything was way more than $300 but the results are fantastic. I am in the middle of working on the model, and the collet holder has not been removed in months. Everything dead on, runout is about .0004, and this is on spindle that was made in 1969 and has lots of miles on it.

So my advice is if you want to be satisfied, it will cost you about what you would put into a new model.

I found a place in Florida that sells imported collets, they are collet specialists. They are the only ones I got a good report on. I have purchased several of their inch sizes to make setting up cutters a little faster. Quality is really good, runnout same as ETM. Price a bit less than ETM but not by much.

http://www.centaurtools.com/index.php

Good luck
Bob

 

[shred]

I have an ETM holder and Maritool holders. Even with the cheap CDCO collets, they've got less runout than the spindle.
If Maritool wasn't one brand you tried, I'd look hard at those too.

 

[pete]

Bison are real good too, But might run a bit higher than your dollar limit. I haven't tried one yet, But the ball bearing type closing nuts are supposed to be much better and nicer to use. I went with a ER-40 set and plan on building a mount for the lathe to use them on that too. It would be nice if somebody started building ER collets for square and hex material also.

Pete

 

[gbritnell]

Thanks for the input guys.
I went though my catalogs and looked at Bison, ETM etc. I don't mind spending the money but at this point I'm a little gunshy. It's been such a protracted affair with the other supplier, buying, checking, calling, sending back, etc., etc. that I don't know what to do at this point.
George.

 

[pete]

George,
It's only my own opinion but my thoughts are, If I want or need collets then there's no point in having inaccurate ones or I may as well stick with the normal R-8 collets. ETM,Bison etc. list maximum allowable tolerances and so far I've not been disappointed buying from any company that has actual quality control and are willing to list those tolerances.

Edited to add, Just in case there's anyone reading this that doesn't know this. There is a definite procedure to use ER style collets. You put the collet into the nut on a angle and snap it over straight so the retaining ring inside the nut drops into the groove machined into the top of the collet.

Pete