Adjustable angle plate

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timo_gross

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I want to mill a feature at an angle, ( I cannot tilt the milling head ).

One shop offered me an adjustable angle plate similar to this one for 200 Euros, that is a little much? 1621399332322.png 8"x6" at weight 12 kg.

1621399442340.png
This one is "for sale" at 934 GBP. It is 200x250 mm and approx double in weight.
The first option ( a similar looking one) can be bought for half of the quote from somewhere.

You never know how much those prices are related to quality. Expensive does not always mean better, but suspiciously cheap usually confirms the suspicion. Are those angle fixtures really so complicated? They seem expensive compared to vises or 3-jaw chucks.

Now I struggle with the make or buy decision, once again. But I already feel I buy too much and never actually do anything.
Getting side tracked in the rabbit hole once again, but not going anywere in the first place. So I am reluctant to spend the 200 Euros and thinking of making an angle fixture by myself.

Would be curious how others fix the "luxury problems".

  • I cannot tilt my milling head
  • the part is too big to clamp it in the vise at an angle.
  • I could easy find someone that has a tilting head on his milling machine.

Greetings Timo
 

timo_gross

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Hello,

Hello darwenguy, shipping from China or buying local is usually my best option (Taiwan).
Some special items I ordered from UK, mainly books and plans, some myfordboy castings arrived also unharmed.
I ended up spontaneous buying this from the cut off pile today. K1600_P1000879.JPG
Mainly because a) I think buying tools all the time for hobby use and then makinng nothing is more weird than trying to make it. :)
b) I want to try to cut some T-slot, just for having tried.
c) I hope it is more fun to read about it here, for others.

If anyone cares I will post some infor about time and materials spent. Maybe it is of interest.

Several steel chunks ( sheet metal as some might say ) cut offs, about 30 GBP for 30 kilos of "surprise steel".
Just looked it up it is all the same grade, see below. I live in Taiwan and here it is normal that cut offs cost same as normal material. ( the difference is waiting time )

Steel S50C Chemical Composition
StandardGradeCMnPSSi
JIS G4051S50C0.47-0.530.60-0.900.0300.0350.15-0.35

Two T-slot cutters from China. They come with only four flutes. I am not sure if that is a good or a bad thing, but the milling machine does not really like running below 500 rpm, so less flutes allows higher spindle speed. ( Milling machine has no gearbox, so there is not really much torque on lower speeds ).
One 16 mm two flute HSS endmill.
( drills taps etc. I plan to use what I have )
 

Vietti

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I've found that for most jobs I can hold the part in the vise and use one of those electronic angle boxes to set the angle, they are accurate to less than a degree which might be hard to match with one of those expensive adjustable angle plates if you use the inscribed graduations so you would need to find a way to get a more accurate measurement anyway, sine bar, etc.
 

larryg

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Not knowing what you have to work with makes suggestions hard. I don't have a rotary base on the mill vise and have at times just swung the vise around and used one T slot and one or two strap clamps to hold it down.

lg
no neat sig line
 

kwoodhands

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I made an adjustable angle plate. I bolted 1/2" 6061 stock to a 90° with 10/24 cap screws. This made a right angle. I then milled an arc on one side of the right angle. A hinged piece was bolted to the base.
This was 1/2" 6061 stock and a door hinge bolted . Then milled a sacrificial steel plate that bolted to the hinge piece. This is used to drill and tap various holes to mount the stock. The hinge can go from about 10° to 10° in either direction. Nothing difficult about this. Milling the arc was the only thing that a careful set up needed.
I lock the the hinge plate with a 1/4-20 bolt washers and a lock washer with a lever handle. Exact degree is done with a protractor.
mike
 

timo_gross

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Not knowing what you have to work with makes suggestions hard. I don't have a rotary base on the mill vise and have at times just swung the vise around and used one T slot and one or two strap clamps to hold it down.

lg
no neat sig line

Hello Larry,

That is true,
I have actually quite a lot of options, plus a lot of things I cannot do, someone can be paid to help me out. No DIY metalworking enthusiasts around here, only professionals ( lots of them ).

Hello Dave,

that looks quite good, I am not sure if clamping the round in the vise will be stablel enough for milling a T-slot into the angled parts ( that is what it started all )
Seeing your version with the tube, I had the idea to make two 24 mm ends on some 48 mm round bar, maybe turning between centers to get everything coaxial. bolt.png Then I thought I could clamp the thing on the machine table using some V-blocks and machine a flat, then drill two M10 mounting holes. The "bolt" mounts on the slotted base.

Then making two triangular shapes with a slotted clamp and a flatswivel.png then mounting the T-slot table on.

Triangles I could make about 16 mm thick with two or three M8 bolts screwing fromunderneath into the T-slot table.

The slots are not quite in clever position reach for clamping at this sketch. I have to figue out how to make the clamp easy to reach.

I milled three T-slots in one of the big parts. The brazed carbide Cutter made ahorrible noise and vibration. I ran at 1400 rpm with a feed of 40 mm/min and the cutter survived the three slots without obvious chipping.K1600_P1000884.JPG The T-stlots are 10 mm.

Then I clamped the piece that I decided to become the base and milled two 12 mm slots 80 mm center to center. a 6 mm packing is between the two, so that I do not cut into the T-slot part.
K1600_P1000885.JPG

Keeping the base on the machine, until I decided where to drill more holes. :)

Greetings Timo
 
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Hello Dave,

that looks quite good, I am not sure if clamping the round in the vise will be stablel enough for milling a T-slot into the angled parts ( that is what it started all )
Seeing your version with the tube, I had the idea to make two 24 mm ends on some 48 mm round bar, maybe turning between centers to get everything coaxial. View attachment 125703 Then I thought I could clamp the thing on the machine table using some V-blocks and machine a flat, then drill two M10 mounting holes. The "bolt" mounts on the slotted base.

Then making two triangular shapes with a slotted clamp and a flatView attachment 125704 then mounting the T-slot table on.
Timo
Provided the diameter of the round is below the top of the vice, the holding is perfectly safe.
The way I attach the table to the Tee slot is always secure.
Everything with it is simple!
Dave
The Emerald Isle
 

awake

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Hello Larry,

That is true,
I have actually quite a lot of options, plus a lot of things I cannot do, someone can be paid to help me out. No DIY metalworking enthusiasts around here, only professionals ( lots of them ).

Hello Dave,

that looks quite good, I am not sure if clamping the round in the vise will be stablel enough for milling a T-slot into the angled parts ( that is what it started all )
Seeing your version with the tube, I had the idea to make two 24 mm ends on some 48 mm round bar, maybe turning between centers to get everything coaxial. View attachment 125703 Then I thought I could clamp the thing on the machine table using some V-blocks and machine a flat, then drill two M10 mounting holes. The "bolt" mounts on the slotted base.

Then making two triangular shapes with a slotted clamp and a flatView attachment 125704 then mounting the T-slot table on.

Triangles I could make about 16 mm thick with two or three M8 bolts screwing fromunderneath into the T-slot table.

The slots are not quite in clever position reach for clamping at this sketch. I have to figue out how to make the clamp easy to reach.

I milled three T-slots in one of the big parts. The brazed carbide Cutter made ahorrible noise and vibration. I ran at 1400 rpm with a feed of 40 mm/min and the cutter survived the three slots without obvious chipping.View attachment 125705 The T-stlots are 10 mm.

Then I clamped the piece that I decided to become the base and milled two 12 mm slots 80 mm center to center. a 6 mm packing is between the two, so that I do not cut into the T-slot part.
View attachment 125706

Keeping the base on the machine, until I decided where to drill more holes. :)

Greetings Timo
Timo, just to make sure: are you cutting a straight slot first before running the t-slot cutter?
 

timo_gross

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Timo, just to make sure: are you cutting a straight slot first before running the t-slot cutter?
Yes! I cut first a10 mm wide slot 19.1 mm deep. Then used the T-slot cutter with the lower edge at 19 mm. So the slot cutter is not cutting a 16x8 mm section of material, but two smaller 3x8 mm sections at each side. It is a 4-flute brazed carbide cutter with7 mm neck dia, 12 mm shank. No further information. Buy some extra and figure your by yourself the seller said :). (cutters cost about 7 US$, so it was worth the risk I guess).
I found 1400 rpm and 40 mm/min feed running reasonable, the cutter survived three 160 long passes. Flood coolant as much as possible.
Comparatively horrible noise and vibration. I am not sure about all this at all, the result looked fine.
My book and some tool cataloges give me 40-100 m/min cutting speed for disc cutters. So 1400 rpm would result in 70 m/min. Suggested feed was not so easy to find. I just tried to adjust that so that I can see proper chips and have not too much horror.
Completing 3 T-slots took about 30 min (machining time only) which I find accepteable.

I also found this calculator that is at times helpful to get a feel for the power consumption and torque.

Walter Machining Calculator

Greetings Timo
 

timo_gross

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Now I made the swivel and have first hopefully useable result.

So far it took me 20 h of worktime, plus 30 USD for material, plus about 15 USD for two cutting tools I bought.

Top view
K1600_P1000886.JPG
Underside. Two M10 screws fix the round piece to the base.
Four M8 screws to fix the T-slot plate to the swivel. If I can work with it I will see.
K1600_P1000887.JPG
Two things that I saw already that call for improvement. But I thought I give it a try before I never get something done and keep thinking about a better solution. a) It is not very easy to reach the clamp bolts that are located under the T-slot table, If the angle is set up separately it will not be problem. b) A big part of the nice long slots to clamp the base to the machine table is useless, because the clamp nuts will be in the way of the upper part.
K1600_P1000891.JPG

Greetings Timo
 
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timo_gross

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If your base plate is thick enough, you could counterslot (yes, I made it up) the slots and use short cap head screws, allowing use of the full length of the slots.
For now I plan to use it as it is. I will see if I encounter some "malfunction". To make the slot lower and use cap head screws is an option.
It is all bolted together, I can still take it apart for modifications.
 
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Im impressed with the practicality of your device. In my shop I use a two axis vise which proves to be very stable. I use it mostly on my in principle very versatile Aciera F3 milling machine to avoid the time-consuming precise resetting of milling table and head. For grinding I made a sinus table. On the side supports I engraved a nonius for easy setting of angles up to a tenth of a degree. The material is aluminium, hard anodized for better wear resistance. It sits with a key on the T-slot of my grinder table. I use it with a toolholder or with an indexer for mills.
Two axis vise.jpg
Sinus vise with toolholder.jpg
Sinus vise with indexer.jpg
Keyway in sinus vise.jpg
 

timo_gross

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Im impressed with the practicality of your device. In my shop I use a two axis vise which proves to be very stable. I use it mostly on my in principle very versatile Aciera F3 milling machine to avoid the time-consuming precise resetting of milling table and head. For grinding I made a sinus table. On the side supports I engraved a nonius for easy setting of angles up to a tenth of a degree. The material is aluminium, hard anodized for better wear resistance. It sits with a key on the T-slot of my grinder table. I use it with a toolholder or with an indexer for mills.
Thank you,

Aciera F3 is like vintage high end car, a little jealous. :) I am using "half old" (recent century) computerized machinery, so the head cannot be altered.
I had such a angle vise in my hands, when I bought the T-slot cutters, but the cutter was much cheaper and I had already decided about the diy.
Rotating fixture for the lathe tools looks like an interesting next project. I like the looks of the scales. How is the engraving done? nextnext project.

First successful grinding relief cuts using the angle plate.

K1600_P1000893.JPG

Very light cuts with 3 mm endmill, but I am happy that they looked straight. Clamped the workpiece on the angle plate, put it on the machine table and squared it, using an indicator.

Happy so far, trials for heavier cuts will follow if I try to make some V-grooves.

That was the initial reason. I want to make something, I need to grind a fixture for that, for grinding the fixture I needed an angle plate. :cool:
I need to be careful that I do not end up in an endless loop of fixture and jigs.

Greetings Timo
 

SmithDoor

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The till table works better than tilt head.

I found a till head or round column mill will auto tilt as you are milling.

I have parts to build a long tilt table. I build this the day I need tilt.
Today I am working on right angle milling head for my mill.

Dave

I want to mill a feature at an angle, ( I cannot tilt the milling head ).

One shop offered me an adjustable angle plate similar to this one for 200 Euros, that is a little much? View attachment 125633 8"x6" at weight 12 kg.

View attachment 125634 This one is "for sale" at 934 GBP. It is 200x250 mm and approx double in weight.
The first option ( a similar looking one) can be bought for half of the quote from somewhere.

You never know how much those prices are related to quality. Expensive does not always mean better, but suspiciously cheap usually confirms the suspicion. Are those angle fixtures really so complicated? They seem expensive compared to vises or 3-jaw chucks.

Now I struggle with the make or buy decision, once again. But I already feel I buy too much and never actually do anything.
Getting side tracked in the rabbit hole once again, but not going anywere in the first place. So I am reluctant to spend the 200 Euros and thinking of making an angle fixture by myself.

Would be curious how others fix the "luxury problems".

  • I cannot tilt my milling head
  • the part is too big to clamp it in the vise at an angle.
  • I could easy find someone that has a tilting head on his milling machine.

Greetings Timo
 
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The engraving of the lines is done with a slitting cutter of diameter 40 mm width 0,3 mm to a depth of 0,3 mm. The division on the toolholder is done on a Vertex 150 with dividing plates. I made a jig with radius 100 mm for the division of the sideplates with 1,13 mm spacing for each degree line and 1,02 mm spacing for the nonius lines. The numerals are done on a French Gravograph engraving machine. For me a slitting saw gives a nice clean line that will fill well with a bit of black paint wiped across.
 
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