"Nina", a Gauge 1, 0-4-0 live steamer. Progress and updates

Home Model Engine Machinist Forum

Help Support Home Model Engine Machinist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hi Carl, it's gettin' there, slow but sure.

Time to start testing and fixing all the bugs. First thing to play with are the two burners plugged into the boiler to see how they behave. Leave the top boiler plugs open so steam can escape during the test. Fill the boiler about 2/3 full. Have some heavy soap water and a Q-tip handy. Hook up a burner and light it. Wipe some soap water on each gas line joint to test for leaks. If there is a leak, then the soap water will make big bubbles. Right away there was a problem. The fuel tank started to overheat. Heat radiated thru the chassis and into the tank. The fix is to insulate the fuel tank from the chassis. Do this with a strip of wood under the fuel tank and wooden washers on the mounting screws. Something like this:

Test%20Run%201.JPG


That did the trick. The fuel tank stays nice and cold now. I will come up with a better fix later, maybe. Probably 20 years from now it will still look like that.

The poker burner with a small jet is the one to use. While the blow burner lights up very easy and burns hot, it does not heat this boiler very well. The flame blows thru the flue too fast and just heats up the smokebox. I will experiment more later, but for now, go with the poker. The poker burner is a little difficult to light. At first it whistles like a jet engine, very piercing irritating sound. After warming up a minute, it settles down. After a little gas burns off it works very well. Total burn time on one fill: 35 minutes.

Now start assembling the plumbing parts. Before burning any real water, make a “tommy bar” spanner like this:

Test%20Run%202.JPG


The pins in the spanner engage the holes in the top of the safety valve and allow adjustments while keeping fingers out of the way.

Get the engine, tools and supplies ready for steam testing. Mount a large pressure gauge in the fill plug.

Test%20Run%203.JPG


The large copper tube loop below the pressure gauge is called a siphon. All steam pressure gauges need a siphon. When the boiler warms up and the first steam goes into the siphon, it condenses back to water and settles in the bottom of the siphon. Water acts as a barrier between the steam and the gauge. What actually operates the gauge is compressed air. Without the siphon, wet steam goes into the gauge mechanism and eventually damages it.

Now set the safety valve. This is done with live steam pressure, not compressed air. To set the valve, take off the locking nut and open the top until the spring is loose. Plug the remaining holes in the boiler and light it up. At first a lot of water will spit out of the valve, but when everything warms up, steam will flow. Use the tommy bar to tighten the safety valve until the steam stops. Note the pressure on the gauge, if any. Let the boiler build more pressure until the safety lifts again. Keep tightening and noting the gauge pressure. Repeat the process until the safety lifts at about 30 PSI. Shut down the burner and let the pressure drop. Re-light and makes sure the safety lifts at 30 PSI. If all is well, put the lock nut on and sinch it down. Repeat the safety valve test several times to ensure it reliably lifts at 30 PSI.

Test%20Run%204.JPG


This safety works very well. At 30 PSI, it sputters open/close and keeps the pressure right at 30 PSI. So far, no problems with it lifting, sticking open and draining the boiler.

Now let’s install the water gauge. Wrap teflon tape on the threads and screw into the boiler. Drop a #21 drill thru the water gauge top and adjust in/out until the bit fits nicely.

Test%20Run%206.JPG


Tighten down the jam nuts. Make sure the drill bit is till free. They jam nut method is very secure. The compress the teflon tape and make a super water tight seal. They are the way to go.

The watertight seal for the gauge glass is from rubber O-rings. I used metric O-rings with a 3mm ID and 1mm wall thickness. They stretch nicely over the 5/32” glass and inside the 1/4 x 40 packing nut. Use 2 O-rings on each end of the glass. Tighten the packing nuts only finger tight, does not need much to seal. The olden days of using graphite yard for water gauge packing are long gone. Don’t waste your time, just get the rings.

Fill the boiler to about 2/3 glass, fire it up, lift the safety.

Now for another disaster. The (**bad words**) gauge did not work. Water level would not register in the glass; it was nothing but a bubble. Then, it would only blow down water, no steam and not re-fill. Maybe the top end got plugged with teflon tape or something. So I took it apart and discovered I never finished drilling out the top end. So, yes, it was plugged all right, with about 3/16” of solid brass. After drilling it out and re-installing, the water gauge worked like a champ.

That’s a great water gauge from the old master, LBSC.

We are going to quit for now, had enough. We have a mega big disaster to solve next time.
 
Those burners look great

After a bit of a conversation with Shred a while back I made this poker burner. I just used a 24tpi hacksaw blade.

DSCF4410.jpg



DSCF4432.jpg


http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=9111.0

Its hopeless in a confined tube though. whereas yours burns well in a tube and not outside It maybe just the size of the mixer air inlet.

BTW - how come your copper parts look so old when you are in the middle of construction? Something in the air in Vegas?

Pete



 
Bob,

Having just read this post, and I am not trying to be a killjoy, but for use in the UK, the rechargeable gas tank should be built slightly differently.

On the filler valve, it has a stack tube that goes down about 1/3 rd the depth of the tank. That is to make sure you won't be feeding neat fluid to the burner by allowing a chamber for gas to occupy by only being able to fill the tank 2/3 rds full.

The end caps have to be flanged and silver soldered like a normal boiler, plus have a phos bronze stay thru the middle.

I don't know how they are made or from what materials, but the takeoff valve has to be made specifically for gas use, a general purpose one would be frowned upon or maybe banned.

The major part is that in the UK, the standard pressure test for a rechargeable gas tank is to 360 psi.

BTW, the 'Ronson' filler valves are available from most boiler and steam valve suppliers in the UK, and as you quoted, they are 4.5mm fine pitch. You can usually pick up a carbon tap from the gas filler supplier for a few squid.


Bogs

 
Hey “shred” & “doubletop”: The idea for reducing the slots came from experiments with the “Ruby” Gauge 1 steamer from Accucraft. It works in that engine, so they say. But that has a different flue diameter and length. It did not make any difference here, in fact more work then it was worth. The next burner will have equal slots and hand sawed rather then machine sawing. What did you guys use for jets in your burners? I don’t know why the copper tarnishes so much. Probably my bad breath.

Hey Bogs. This is the first butane tank I’ve made. I looked on the internet for guidance and standards, but did not really find any. I should have asked here on HMEM. For the stay, I looked at Kozo Hiraoka’s “New Shay” book where he lays out copper boiler calculations in great detail. According to the charts, with 1/8” thick endplates at 100 PSI, stays are 1.125” apart. This tank is only 1” ID. If the end plates were 1/16” thick, a stay is required. I determined the 200 PSI test figure based on engineering data I found for 70% butane/30% propane gas. 70/30 reaches a pressure of 93 PSI at 110 degrees F. I doubled that figure and rounded to 200 PSI. After making the tank and testing it, I did an experiment to verify. Here is the experiment I did and the results:

http://www.mylargescale.com/Community/Forums/tabid/56/aff/11/aft/117041/afv/topic/Default.aspx

I yield to expertise on this topic. If there is a standard available, I will use it.




Let’s get Nina running on the rollers. Install all the steam and exhaust piping and the throttle in preparation for the first steam run. The packing nut joints use a single 3 x 1 O-ring. The banjo fitting on the steam side uses gaskets. Cut two gaskets from brown shopping bag paper and soak them in steam oil. Brown shopping bag is the best gasket material in the world. The exhaust side does not need gaskets.

Fill up the gas tank, put more water in the boiler, and charge the lubricator. Light it up and let the safety lift. Open up the throttle and see what happens.

The first steam run was a total disaster. The engine would barely kick over on it’s own. It would turn a few times and stop. No power. Finally, it seized up solid and would not turn at all. I disassembled the engine. It took a pair of 12” channel lock pliers to pull the piston from the cylinder. There was a big chip brass stuck in the cylinder wall and it bound up the piston. Once that was out the piston moved freely again.

What was causing the lack of power? Somewhere in the design phase I made an arithmetic error and the piston ended up 3/32” too long. At top-dead-center the piston was just below the cylinder cover and clearly blocking the port hole. The steam opening started when the piston was about 1/3 way down, way too late. The exhaust closed way too early, probably causing compression near the top. Somehow, the engine ran fine on the air compressor. Steam from the boiler was a totally different outcome.

The fix was ugly:

Test%20Run%207.JPG


Grind a big notch in the piston so the porthole is never covered. Actually, the notch in the piston works the best. The smaller volume in the cylinder at top dead center means less steam space to fill during the power stroke. That will save on steam consumption.

And, there was another potential problem. All along I was worried that the #47 holes in the cylinder and engine standard port faces were too small. So I enlarged all three to #40 (0.098”). These may still be too small, but for now, we will try them on steam.

After hooking everything back up and building steam, the engine took off like a gunshot. It ran long, strong and smooth. Here’s a 16 second clip:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdq49DjHLN8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdq49DjHLN8[/ame]

The first test run lasted 24 minutes before running out of fuel. That would have been the remaining fuel after an 11 minute warm up. On the second test I shut down the burner after the safety lifted and refilled the fuel. That run lasted 32 minutes before running out of water. I think with a full water fill, it should go 35 minutes and run out of fuel. That will be good.

The wheels turn at about 160 RPM, the engine about 680 RPM. That works out to about 1 foot per second. The throttle does not control speed very well, it’s basically on or off. We’ll see how it works on the track.

Nina will make its public debut at our next steam up on 2 Oct. Hopefully, since it runs on the rollers, it should run on the track.

There are some modifications to do before then. They include insulating the boiler from the frame, insulating the lubricator from the boiler and a little change to the burner.

Getting nervous again.
 

Congratulations! ;D

Looks and sounds great. I look forward too seeing it heading down the tracks.
 
xo18thfa said:
Hey “shred” & “doubletop”: The idea for reducing the slots came from experiments with the “Ruby” Gauge 1 steamer from Accucraft. It works in that engine, so they say. But that has a different flue diameter and length. It did not make any difference here, in fact more work then it was worth. The next burner will have equal slots and hand sawed rather then machine sawing. What did you guys use for jets in your burners?
Looking good.

I used a jet from a JetBoil camping stove spare parts kit which I think is an 0.21mm orifice (there's a little saga of obtaining and fastening the jet over in my old build thread... short story: solder or screw in only). My first iteration had decreasing slots, but deepening them helped quite a bit. I made my burner with a removable burner tube to do some experiments with since info was very limited at the time but it turned out to work just fine after the slot deepening, so I've not messed with it since.
 
Bob,

Very nice. I'm looking forward to seeing a video on Nina running on tracks. Good luck.

SAM
 
Thanks a lot fellas. Nina just came out of the shop after the modifications and it's almost ready to go. Last thing I have to make is a new steam pipe from the lubricator down to the motor. After all the insulation, the current pipe is too short.

Gettin' nervous.
 
Before heading out the track, we need to do a few important modifications. The first two are critical, the others are optional.

The first modification is to the burner. The original mounting collar places the burner in the middle of the flue. This is no good. There is not enough space at the top for the burner to operate correctly. Chuck the burner assembly in the 3-jaw and turn the mounting collar off. Fabricate and solder a new collar that sets the burner as low in the flue as possible.

Mo%201.JPG


Next insulate the boiler from the chassis. Use some 1/8” thick strips of wood under the boiler barrel and smokebox. Use a strip of wood under the footplate as a washer, so the boiler mounting screws don’t transfer heat:

Mo%202.JPG


These fixes make a big difference. The burner is much easier to light. It pops on right away. Now you can crank the gas valve wide open and really get the burner going. Before, too much gas would blow the fire out. The run time on the fuel tank drops to about 25 minutes, but the increased fuel make the boiler steam much better. The insulation keeps the chassis cool to the touch. You can hold the engine in your bare hands for an entire run.

The next fix is on the drive chain between the axles. Ladder chain stretches. There is a worry that the chain could hang up in a switch and derail the engine. Remove the lower center frame stretcher and fabricate a little chain hanger from a section of smooth copper pipe and bend brass strip. Soft solder or screw the assembly to the stretcher:

Mo%203.JPG


That should keep the chain from dragging in the sleepers. While you are in there, change out the machine screws with some model hex head bolts.

Mo%204.JPG


The last thing is to make an air choke for the burner. It’s a collar with a 1/4" hole drilled crosswise to match the mixer holes on the burner. Silver solder a threaded stud to accept a 2 x 56 locking grub. Make a sexy wooden handle so the fingers don’t get burned.

Mo%205.JPG


At first I thought the choke would be a cute, but un-necessary gadget. It turns out to be very handy. The choke takes out the annoying whistle and jet engine sound while the fuel tank burns down and the boiler warms up. While running, open up the air and get the burner rocking.



Now for the debut run. Service the engine in the usual fashion. Lubricate all bearing surfaces. Put about 5ml real steam oil in the lubricator. Fill the boiler to the very top with fresh distilled water. Withdraw about 45ml. It will appear as a full glass on the water gauge. Close the throttle. Charge the fuel tank and light up. After about 9 minutes, she’ll be ready to go. Set switches on the track for the mainline and wait for a green light from dispatch. Open the throttle about 1/2 to 2/3. As you look at the flywheel, give it a spin clockwise, top of the flywheel going to the rear of the engine. Get out of the way or get run over.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAekprR0vC0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAekprR0vC0[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF7aUdJu1Zk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RF7aUdJu1Zk[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVqctcoKqAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVqctcoKqAg[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUpRyRIFGvc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUpRyRIFGvc[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWnKAsuFX0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIWnKAsuFX0[/ame]

It took 2 runs to learn how to run it and understand the quirks. After the learning curve Nina ran strong and smooth. It’s a real messy engine at the start. Lots of water and oil splatter, but calms down quickly. I did not time it, but the run times were about 15 to 17 minutes without refilling the tank. It ran out of fuel before running out of water.

Overall, a great run day. I’m happy.

Next time, we will work on a cab, some finishing details, paint and wrap this project up.
 
Thats' awesome. It's so much fun when a live steamer comes to life :bow: woohoo1 Thm:


FWIW, I tried rotating my burner (offset in the flue, but not so much) so the flame aims 'downward' on the advice of some Gauge 1 types, but it didn't seem to make much difference.
 



WAY TO GO!!! :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
It sounded real good too. Can't wait to see it with the cab and paint job.

Ron
 
And a train to boot on a shakedown run. Running strong and smooth. Thm: Thm:
woohoo1
Gail in NM
 
Oh that is so very cool XO! Such a beautiful sight and sound to see making its way grandly down the sidings. Truly a fine build as well. Thm: Thm:

BC1
Jim
 
Way to go Bob!

I've been following along with great enjoyment from the start, have filed away a lot excellent tips, and I'm really happy on your behalf
for what must have been a really great day at the track.

Can't wait to see her all done up with a cab and a flash paint scheme Thm: Thm:

cheers, Joe
 
Awesome. That had to feel good.
Congratulations on a great run.
Looking forward to the finish.
Don't be playing with it too much. You know what they say. ;D
 
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

That is a fine machine you built there. She has some torque I see, and runs real smooth down the tracks. I like it, and you must be very proud indeed.

Well Done Thm:

Kel
 
That is so neat. :big: :big: :big:
Runs so smooth and appears to have enough power to pull a fair size load.

 

Latest posts

Back
Top