Workshop Damp/humidity

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Dear Members:

I found this product on the internet:

Zerust® - Rust protection and corrosion prevention products are available in a variety of forms including capsules, covers, draw liners and bags. Choose the option that best fits your needs.


All Zerust® products operate on the same basic principle -- to create an invisible barrier of corrosion-blocking molecules around your valuable metal item. Exposed metal surfaces protected with Zerust products benefit from a long-lasting shield against rust, tarnish, and corrosion.

Does anyone have any experience using this product to protect a Lathe or a Milling Machine?

Steve
 
Well I have installed the heater, it' sgets a little hotter than I would like but you can hold your hand on it for a little while, kinda like the side of a boiled kettle.

Will give it a few days and see how it goes.

Thanks

DJH
 
I filled all the gaps in with rockwool or alike. Haven't had any issue with rust as it slows the spikes in temperature change. Im located in the midlands so have the same weather as you and have no heater. Before christmas it was -5 during the night and 8 during the day and saw no moisture at all. I will improve it further by adding a second layer to the windows when I get a chance.
22012012865.jpg

Rob. :)
 
RManley - nice work going on and there should be no temperature problems.

Are you installing some vapour barrier before the finished wall surface goes on?
 
Well I have installed the heater, it' sgets a little hotter than I would like but you can hold your hand on it for a little while, kinda like the side of a boiled kettle.

Will give it a few days and see how it goes.

Thanks

DJH
DJH:

What type of cover did you use on your machine after you installed the tube heater? Let us know how this works for you.

Regards,

Steve
 
Hiya

I just used a standard fitted bed sheet (asda smartprice £2 odd), and between that and the heater i have not had any condensation since.

The machine still feels cold to touch but maybe it's past the threshold, it is currently 11C and 87% humidity in there

Thanks

DJH
 
Hi Guys

Just a quick update, ive been in to check the mill as it's been raining all day, it's 12 degrees in there and 87% humidity and the mill is bone dry and only slightly chilly to touch so it seems to be working great. Also the heater no longer seems so hot to touch as I guess it is being drawn into the mill.

they sell the heaters in 1 foot long lengths (60W) which I think i will try for the lathe (7x12)

Thanks

DJH
 
If it is sealed from the weather why not try a dehumidifier? It also creates heat.
 
Hi,
One thing to maybe watch for with high humidity and warm temps in a sealed shed is mold.MDF seems to be a bit like a petri dish.I once had an uncoated mdf shelving completley covered with mold.I wonder if there is anything suitable to wipe over to prevent mold spore attacks?
Just a thought.
 
Hi Rob, I have a peltier type de-humidifer but it only pulls water out of the air if the temp is above 10-15 degrees

Metal Mudler, that is my next problem, more so on the particle board roof where I have noticed small spots of mold (circa 2mm dia). I was wondering wether painting it would be a good idea, or even just clear laquer/varnish?

Thanks

DJH
 
Thats really great, I will look into getting some and giving it a go :)
 
Hi DJH,

This is a very interesting thread on a subject right up my alley... and one that I have had similar experiences with. I am a building scientist/designer and I have over 20 years experience in moisture management and mitigation.

My father-in-law has half of his shop in a covered carport area which he enclosed, my business partner has his shop in his detached garage and much of my own equipment has been kept and used in an attached garage. Our spring and fall are very close in climate to the south of wales in the winter.

You need to take a multiple strategy approach to dealing with moisture issues. If you allow the shed environment to be at equilibrium with the exterior environment it is a formula for disaster, over time most of the strategies discussed on this thread so far will fail to provide long term protection of your equipment.

The trick is to provide minimal control over the interior environment that is sufficient to bring the temperature and relative humidity within a range that will result in a dewpoint well below the temperature at which the equipment is normally maintained. So you need to provide some humidity control, and some temperature control.

It would be cost prohibitive to provide a major retrofit of your shed, however some minor low cost detailing can be very effective at managing the moisture infiltration. Some of which is due to vapour drive, especially from the floor system over the gravel pad upon which the shed sits. This type of construction is extremely susceptible to moisture vapour drive from the ground upwards into the structure. A simple moisture barrier will fix this. You don't need expensive paint, just look for a moisture barrier rated latex primer. Do the walls as well then finish with another coat of regular paint to protect the primer from wear.

Next address the moisture load that enters the shed from air infiltration... simply check that the shed is well caulked, and providing good weatherstripping on the doors and windows. If you don't slow the infiltration of moisture from outside the shed dehumidification will not help since the moisture load from outside air leaking into the shed will exceed the small capacity of the typical dehumidifier. So if you cannot slow air leakage do not bother with the dehumidifier.

However, I doubt this alone will provide totally adequate protection... because on rainy days the humidity and temperature combination will likely result in much of your equipment being at or below the dew point.

It is great that you are heating the equipment. Radiant heat is the best way to heat since it heats the mass of equipment directly and most efficiently... electric baseboard does not provide true radiant heating since it relies mostly on creating convection air currents to circulate the heat. Infra-red tube style heaters are best for a shop environment and cover a lot of territory.

I don't think you have enough heat to maintain the temp of your equipment above the dew point for those days colder than 12° C, even in the conditions you describe where the mill feels warm and you cannot feel moisture on the equipment, there is a high risk.

See image 1...

You will see from the chart that the RH is too high resulting in a dew point that is too high and potential risk for metal corrosion. To provide adequate protection you need more heat into the equipment and lower humidity both.

Circulation helps by helping evaporate any slight condensation there may be, so covering equipment will impede evaporation when you have some radiant heating. Some air movement is good if it doesn't cost too much to operate.

I did a heat loss calculation for my attached garage and determined that I needed to use two 1.5 KW ceramic radiant heaters with a small fans inside to heat the garage to about 10° C, which is the temperature I need to maintain to lower my RH and dew point enough to prevent condensation for my conditions. I had a plug in power monitor and the heaters averaged about 24kWh a day, which over the course of the heating season cost me over $280 a year to operate. My space was small and attached to my home on three sides and designed to resist moisture infiltration so I had far less moisture to worry about.

My friend with a 20' x 20' detached wood frame garage built in the 1950s required 5.5 KW of heating and therefore uses a natural gas fired infra-red tube heater in order to protect his equipment. The capital costs were higher but the operating costs were far less. Electricity would cost him $1500 a season, while gas only costs him $800.

Of course, my friend uses his shop all the time, and doesn't heat above 15° C. Given his costs he chose to insulate half the space recently and uses tarps to seal off the other half which he doesn't use.

Image two shows the minimum safe level to avoid metal corrosion at 12°, while image 3 shows the minimum safe conditions at 5° C. Image 4 shows the threshold between a safe level and unsafe level of RH... 56%RH is safe, but 58% crosses into unsafe territory... risk of corrosion.

Oh and yes do coat all surfaces of your equipment with a preservative designed specifically for protection from moisture... good suggestions have already been given here, so I wont add to this.

Image 1.jpg


Image 2.jpg


Image 3.jpg
 
Hi Toronto Builder,

thanks for such an informative post.

I will look into the primer for the floor/walls and anti-mould paint for the ceiling. There are no windows in the building but think I can improve the double door area. The only issue I have is heating as I can see that costing me a fair bit, but if needs doing then so be it.

Do you mean this type of heater?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-IWMH2003-Infrared-Quartz-Heater-Wall-Mounting-2000W-230V-Heaters-Inf-/310435348401?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D130467636087%26ps%3D54


Thanks

DJH
 
DJH, you're welcome on the help...

Yes that is a true radiant style heater.

I don't know how large your shed is but I'd guess 8' x 10' or so? I'd think that the heater you have there may have an output greater than what you need. You don't need to make the space habitable for people, just tools.

Check out the following page of the Sealey Catalog... Sealey Catalogue - Heaters Page 2

I'd recommend model IWMH1809R - High Efficiency Carbon Fibre Infrared Wall Heater 1800W/230V. If you need more shop lighting the next model up (IWMH1809LR) comes with LED lights as well. They are on sale so your ebay seller is not the best deal try to find another Sealey dealer who will pass along the sale price.

Slightly less output... offers remote control as well as three output levels. Most times you will likely have it on low. Monitor the shed conditions to see at what temps you may need to turn the unit to a higher output. You should buy a cheap battery operated thermometer/humidistat for under £5 that way you can check a dewpoint calculator to assess the risk of condensation.

Click to view Thermometer/Humidistat for sale at Amazon UK
 
Last edited:
DJH,
The stuff i used is a paint additive called "VC175 tropical strength mold killer"

heres the link

http://www.floodaustralia.net/products/anti_mould/VC175.php

Trust me,it works.
I have treated a mold ridden and prone room with this and its been 5 years so far and there is not even a single sign of its return.
Yes it is Australian,no i am not just trying to help flog a product.
 

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