Three Otto Langen Models

[Cddeshon]

In another thread I was asked to provide better pictures/videos of the engines in my avatar. I’ll attempt to do that with this thread.







These are my three Otto Langen atmospheric Internal Combustion Engines I’ve built. The Otto Langen atmospheric engine was designed and built by Nicolaus Otto and Eugen Langen back in 1860’s. They are the first commercially successful I.C. engines to be built and several thousand were built in the decade that followed until Nicolaus Otto perfected his 4-cycle engine. These are non-compression engines that use the combustion of fuel to lift a piston against atmospheric pressure, and then reclaim that energy by the atmosphere pressing the piston back down the cylinder and performing useful work.



The model on the left is the first one I built; back in 2013. I knew very little of these engines back then and it took me several years to get it to run properly. It runs on acetylene and was loosely modeled from a line diagram I had of the original built by Otto. Since then, drawings of the original have become available. The engine runs as an ungoverned engine as the first built by Otto did. It is mostly of cast iron construction. Though the full size uses flame ignition, at 1/5th size, flame ignition does not scale, therefore the model uses spark ignition. This model has been to the Cabin Fever expo in Lebanon Pennsylvania a few times and also several times to the Rough and Tumble engineers August show.

The model in the middle is a third generation Otto Langen and is a fairly accurate representation of the Crossley built Otto Langen owned by the Henry Ford Museum and on loan to the Rough and Tumble engineers association in Kinzer, Pa. Through the friendly folks at Rough and Tumble was able I to get many photos and dimensions of the full size and for that reason the model closely resembles the full size. The model has a functional hand start lever and runs “on the governor” like the full size.



The engine on the right is another model of the 3rd generation Maybach re-design of the Otto Langen mechanism. I designed and built this model using erection drawings of an 1871 full-size engine built by Gasmotorenfabrik-deutz, supplied by a friend. This model also closely models the full size. It too is governor controlled and is the last Otto Langen model I’ve completed.



I’m currently building a fourth model, this one a 2nd generation Otto Langen, modeled from an engine on exhibit in Oslo, Norway. This will be a model of a 2 HP engine with dual flywheels and will also be governor controlled.



All my engines run on acetylene.

 

[Richard Hed]

Those are absolutely crazy engines. I'm surprised that that rack doesn't jam and break the system. Maybe that's what some of that clanking is when the thing fires.

 

[Cddeshon]

Those are absolutely crazy engines. I'm surprised that that rack doesn't jam and break the system. Maybe that's what some of that clanking is when the thing fires.

You don’t want the piston to ‘bottom out’ on the frame during the up stroke. Several full size have been destroyed in that way. The piston upward movement is arrested by atmospheric pressure before it travels its full available distance. The combustion makes a bit of noise, but not a sharp ‘bang’ like compression engines. There is considerable mechanical motion, most with the sprag clutch that engages during piston downward travel to spin up the flywheel and the ratchet and pawl engaging and disengaging during a cycle.

 

[Tim Wescott]

The fact that I can see that you obviously know what you're doing is having a war inside my head with your statement about flame ignition, and the behavior I've seen with those micro-mini welding torches that'll produce an oxy-acetylene flame just an inch long.

Maybe it's trying to run things without compressed oxygen?

Must... belive... the... guy... who'se... been... there...

 

[Tim Wescott]

Those are really cool engines, by the way. One of those is on the longer version of my "to-do" list. I figure that at the rate I'm going I should have the necessary skills when I'm about 150 years old.

It's neat that you've dedicated the time to making it work in model form.

 

[LorenOtto]

In another thread I was asked to provide better pictures/videos of the engines in my avatar. I’ll attempt to do that with this thread.







These are my three Otto Langen atmospheric Internal Combustion Engines I’ve built. The Otto Langen atmospheric engine was designed and built by Nicolaus Otto and Eugen Langen back in 1860’s. They are the first commercially successful I.C. engines to be built and several thousand were built in the decade that followed until Nicolaus Otto perfected his 4-cycle engine. These are non-compression engines that use the combustion of fuel to lift a piston against atmospheric pressure, and then reclaim that energy by the atmosphere pressing the piston back down the cylinder and performing useful work.



The model on the left is the first one I built; back in 2013. I knew very little of these engines back then and it took me several years to get it to run properly. It runs on acetylene and was loosely modeled from a line diagram I had of the original built by Otto. Since then, drawings of the original have become available. The engine runs as an ungoverned engine as the first built by Otto did. It is mostly of cast iron construction. Though the full size uses flame ignition, at 1/5th size, flame ignition does not scale, therefore the model uses spark ignition. This model has been to the Cabin Fever expo in Lebanon Pennsylvania a few times and also several times to the Rough and Tumble engineers August show.

The model in the middle is a third generation Otto Langen and is a fairly accurate representation of the Crossley built Otto Langen owned by the Henry Ford Museum and on loan to the Rough and Tumble engineers association in Kinzer, Pa. Through the friendly folks at Rough and Tumble was able I to get many photos and dimensions of the full size and for that reason the model closely resembles the full size. The model has a functional hand start lever and runs “on the governor” like the full size.



The engine on the right is another model of the 3rd generation Maybach re-design of the Otto Langen mechanism. I designed and built this model using erection drawings of an 1871 full-size engine built by Gasmotorenfabrik-deutz, supplied by a friend. This model also closely models the full size. It too is governor controlled and is the last Otto Langen model I’ve completed.



I’m currently building a fourth model, this one a 2nd generation Otto Langen, modeled from an engine on exhibit in Oslo, Norway. This will be a model of a 2 HP engine with dual flywheels and will also be governor controlled.



All my engines run on acetylene.

Craig, I am blown away. Your models are absolutely beautiful and true to scale. I have studied the history of the Otto Langen legacy with much interest. There are a few exhibitions of Otto Engines in the mid-west that I have visited, most notably, Western Minnesota Steam Threshers Reunion in Rollag, MN. They have dedicated as entire building to Otto engines. Loren otto

 

[Cddeshon]

I’ll attempt to discuss flame ignition without getting too preachy (working at a University for 25 years... I can get that way). Back before spark ignition, back before igniter ignition, back before hot-tube ignition; there was flame ignition.

Flame ignition, basically, is having an open pilot flame available near a valve at the place of ignition at the cylinder. The valve, usually a slide valve such as early steam engines used, has an open chamber within it containing a gas jet. During the cycle of the valve, this chamber is exposed to the pilot flame, where the gas emitted from the gas jet is lit. The valve then cycles where it is no longer exposed to the outside atmosphere and subsequently exposed to the cylinder where the burning gas from the jet within the valve ignites the charge in the cylinder. The resulting combustion, usually blows out the gas jet within the valve, thus necessitating it being relit by the exterior pilot flame for the next cycle.



These early engines did not benefit from compressed oxygen or other means to support combustion within the valve; the chamber in the valve contained enough air to support combustion of the gas emitted from the gas jet while the valve cycled. At the scale I’m working, this chamber in the valve would be at most, twenty thousandths of a cubic inch in volume. This is not enough air to support combustion of the smallest jet I can make in a scale valve, even though the valve cycle time would be well under a second in duration; also the volume of close metal would draw enough heat away from the flame that it would probably be extinguished.



The chemists could probably work out the stoichiometry and calculate what might or might not be done, but I’m not a chemist.



For a more in depth discussion on flame ignition I highly recommend reading Wayne Grenning book: “Flame ignition: internal Combustion Engines Before 1900” (and I don’t get a commission for a sale; Wayne is THE acknowledged authority on these early engines).

 

[Tim Wescott]

That's actually what I was alluding to by the "without compressed oxygen" comment -- you may be able to scale down the flame ignition chamber, but only if you changed the chemistry of the gas jet inside of it.

 

[Richard Carlstedt]

Another thought on the reduced volume of the flame chamber.
You may want to consider a ceramic lining to the chamber as it reduces the heat transfer and loss
and the coating can be quite thin !

 

[Cddeshon]

Thanks for your suggestions regarding flame ignition, but I don’t believe you comprehend the scope of the problem. At the scale I’m using, the chamber to support the flame within the valve would be about the size of a pencil eraser. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s a task I just don’t choose to pursue.



Were I to move from spark ignition; a much better alternative has bene suggested by a friend. He suggested replacing the flame inside the valve with a piece of monofilament. The idea is that the pilot flame would heat this filament red-hot, and them, before it had a chance to cool it would be exposed to the combustion chamber to ignite the fuel in the cylinder. I believe this idea has merit and though it isn’t exactly “flame ignition” it certainly carries it in spirit and has promise at the scale I'm using.

Still, I find spark ignition easy and reliable. I can take my models to a show and need to transport a minimum amount of extra paraphernalia to support them. Seems like a win-win solution to me.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

 

[Richard Carlstedt]

Understood Craig--You can't scale nature --Nice work you have done however !
Rich

 

[Tim Wescott]

At the scale I’m using, the chamber to support the flame within the valve would be about the size of a pencil eraser. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but it’s a task I just don’t choose to pursue.

Sorry -- I didn't mean to say that you should go off and do a bunch of work just because I think it would be nifty, or that I think less of you for not attempting the theoretically-possible-but-ridiculous. I was just spinning off on an improbable tangent. For the scale you're working at, using a spark ignition makes tons of sense.

 

[Steamchick]

Just picked-up on this ignition thread.... (sorry about the pun?).. but you can buy a glow-plug for model aero engines - 1/4"BSF I think? Or use a ceramic fuse body - say from a domestic 13 A plug? About 5 mm diameter with a 2mm hole up the muddle. You can cut it (carefully) with a tiny grinding disc in your Dremel... A friend has used fuse bodies to make ceramics for making tiny spark plugs for his engines (about 1 cc, running on Propane).
Hope you find the solution you want?
K2

 

[Cddeshon]

Lots of good ideas,thanks. The current build is far enough along that I think I’ll “stay the course” and stick with spark ignition. I don’t know if I’ll build any more of these things or not, but if I do I may visit some of these ideas, thanks again.

also, thanks for the compliments on my existing models.

 

[Tim Wescott]

@Steamchick : I know that glow plugs are 1/4-32, but I've been assuming they're NSF. Certainly, the 1/4-32 'merican tap that I bought makes perfectly good holes for glow plugs.

@Cddeshon: I think you know this already, but you can get spark plugs with that same 1/4-32 thread.

For these engines, I don't think a glowplug would work -- they depend on compression to raise the temperature. That doesn't just initiate ignition, it times it. If you could get a glow plug to work at atmospheric pressure, you'd need to use methanol fuel, you'd probably need to drive it with a lot of extra electricity, and you'd probably need a shutter like the gas-flame ignitions do.