Ponder this

[DaveH]

Hydrogen 1 proton +ve and 1 electron -ve

Why doesn't the electron just zip into the proton, afterall aren't opposites suppose to attract. ???

 

[kcmillin]

Perhaps it is the Higgs Boson, or maybe the bottom quark that prevents the transfer of electrons :big: :big:

Actually I have no Idea.

Kel

 

[DaveH]

Kel.
Ah the Higgs Boson effect - not to sure

Dave

 

[Bill Gruby]

Lots of time on your hands huh. ;D

Electrons orbit around Protons. They have radial accelleration that is keeping them away from the Proton.

"Bill Gruby"

 

[DaveH]

Bill,
Perpetual motion, eh! - What about when electons move in conductors - shocking :big: :big: :big:

Dave

 

[MachineTom]

They are kept apart by the neutrons, or the result is Fusion-boom +++++

 

[DaveH]

Tom,
May be,- but hydrogen doesn't have a neutron :-*

Dave

 

[Bill Gruby]

That is correct, Hydrogen atoms are made up of only 1 Proton+ and 1 Electron -. I don't know the answer in a conductor as the Electrons move more freely in one type of conductor than another. I do maintain however that they do noy smash into each other because of the orbit the Electron is in around the Proton. The mass of the Electron is much less that the mass of the Proton. This is about as far as I can go with this.

"Bill Gruby"

 

[rake60]

Hummm, I'll have to ask my son about that one.

Rick

 

[AlfrowD]

What it all comes down to is the fact that the two cannot exist in the exact same place. The act of the two things sitting in the same position would violate the definition of matter (don't forget no matter how small these things are they are still particles). If you were to calculate the probability density of the electron using quantum mechanics you will find the density at the proton (the origin) to be zero. Also, the speed at which the electron moves is so fast compared to the proton that the proton is effectively sitting still and comes out similar to the orbit of a planet (but not)... In other words without deriving the calculations on here I cannot show you but only describe it.

Also, I am by no means a P-Chemist they could do a much better job explaining this I'm sure.

Andrew

 

[Foozer]

I just wonder where that electron is headed to in such a hurry. Like you chill it down and bring it to a near halt, let er warm up and its pedal to the metal again. Just where was it headed off to in such a rush . . .

Robert

 

[Bill Gruby]

Don't know where it's going or why it's in a hurry but you wouldn't be here if it was not headed somewhere. :bow:

"Bill Gruby"

 

[DaveH]

Andrew,

I agree with your answer (except I don't understand it).
The proton and electon don't have to occupy the space, just be attracted to each other. So why don't they attract each other?

Dave

 

[Foozer]

Earth and moon, gravitational rather than charge based. Gravity (charge) tries to pull them together, orbital speed tries to separate them. They are attracted, the electron seems to be an unwilling companion tho.

Force them together and ah ha metallic energy

Robert

 

[DaveH]

Hello Robert wondered where you were.

Wishing upon a star by the sounds of things.

Still not convinced
Dave

 

[AlfrowD]

Dave,

I don't actually have the words to say it myself. It comes down to the fact that the way that most of us visualize atoms it seems like it should be possible; however, the way that we visualize things is in a way that we can understand them. The derivations and math behind proving this is very messy. Yes, opposites attract, however in that very same way they attract one another they can become "too close" and then repel. This concept yields a energy potential diagram (energy on the y axis and distance on the x axis) that when they are "too close" the energy is high (lower energy is better in the universe) and too far away the energy is zero. There is an energy well that is observed between these distances in which the electron would be close but not sitting in the center which describes the electron's orbit.

I found another forum that you may want to check out and that may give you a little more insight than I can.
http://focusfusion.org/index.php/forums/viewthread/790/

Cheers,
Andrew

 

[DaveH]

Andrew,
Gee wiz, gets worse, and it seems it that the electron could actually be right next to the proton. Now there's a thing.

I did a few years back ask a Physicists this "question" - He said this is quantum theory and quantum mechanics, the bits that make up the atom do not behave or comply to Newtonian mechanics. ;D

What a fiddle
Dave

 

[Bill Gruby]

I must stand corrected on this. I did what some do and called an orbit the same as in a planet. Upon further searching some of the above info this is not at all true. The electron in its motion gives off EM-radiation to conserve energy. This will cause the electron to slow down and come, as you say Dave, crashing into the proton. Now I'm lost ??? ??? ??? ???

This thread is getting very interesting.

"Bill Gruby"

 

[bearcar1]

Save those questions for the science fair Dave.

BC1
Jim

 

[Majorstrain]

Gravity is a myth!

The EARTH really SUCKS. :big:

Back in my box now.
Cheers
Phil