Maybe we are not obsolete

[black85vette]

Article on the need for machinists;

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/15/on-job-hunt-machinists-in-high-demand/?test=latestnews

I found it interesting when I took a basic machinist class at a local trade school that the instructor told us he was going to teach us the manual lathe and mill first but we did not need to master them because almost all manufacturing was now CNC. The manual machines were used to just understand the prinicples involved. I have a friend in the oil field industry for a company that makes large valves. Most of their production is CNC but he works in tool and die and they most use manual equipment to make prototypes and tools for production. He says they are mostly old guys and that there is not a pool of experienced machinists that can take their place. Looks like some opportunities out there. Even in a poor economy there is demand for some skills.

Edit; appears two of us were posting this at the same time. :big: Admin; you can combine this with the other one.

 

[bearcar1]

I'm Not questioning the articles validity nor the fact that there seems to be 'old timers' left in many of these situations. What I am very curious about is how many of these 'old timers' have been laid off or are still out of work, selling screws and nuts at the local ACE or stocking shelves at a big box store. If what holds true for the rest of the trades in this country, most of the experienced talent is sitting idle while the industries continue to thrive due to outsourcing overseas or by hiring and maintaining lower priced, less experienced work forces here in this country to carry out the bare essentials in the day-to-day operations. I would not let myself get too fooled into the notion that any company in this country will ever be "in need" of in any labor force in the future. If they could find a way to survive and continue to drive their profit lines through the roof, they would and no one would be employed. Until I see a trend toward the creation of labor in this country, it won't much matter. The rebuttal "Someone has to take care of the machinery" is a joke. Computers are manufacturing and running most of what is in place now the cost of that equipment is falling due to what I said earlier about outsourcing to other countries, before long, it will become cheaper to merely buy new pieces and replace than pay to have a working stiff repair a part or machine. Our society and marketplace has become much too dependent upon disposable products and driven by bottom line numbers.
I apologize for the 'rant', but this is what/how I see industry being driven, so I have hard time accepting the notion that ANY jobs will be in demand until the entire mindset of big business changes.

BC1
Jim

 

[GWRdriver]

I think it depends entirely upon your perspective, motivations, and attitude. Despite what we may think, considering the economic doldrums we've been in, we live in a land of great opportunity. The following stories may or may not have anything to add to this thread but take from it what you will,

Several years ago I became friends with the director of the local State Voc-Ed school and naturally the metalworking trades areas, especially the machine shop section, were of interest. I constantly see recommendations to HSM wannabe's that they take a night school class in machine work, so I made inquiries for a couple of friends to see if there was opportunity there for a non-vocational student to learn basic metalworking for a hobby. His answer was No, not for the foreseeable future, because his classes were full and there was a waiting list . . . but the students weren't typical local folks. He said 98% of his metalworking students were Indonesian.

Apparently, like many other immigrant nationalities which have chosen a particular work to be their own, the Indonesians have a native ability for the precision and care required to be good machinists and toolmakers, and as a group they have chosen to enter life in the USA through manufacturing machine working, thus his classes are filled with Indonesians. He says I have plenty of financial aid for residents/citizens, and jobs waiting, but I am unable to attract any local interest at all. He said the Indonesians come here and sometimes several families live together, often in rather extreme conditions, working any menial job while going to school, all for a purpose. He said they are intelligent, responsible, punctual, polite, dedicated, don't do drugs or whiskey, and they absorb everything like sponges. They also pay their way, there is no financial aid of any kind. Their goal is a job and citizenship first, then a good life for their family, an education for their children, and to contribute to the economy and society and they will do whatever they have to do to get it. The only problem, he says, is the full course program is two years but they rarely last that long. They learn enough within one year to be productive and cost -effective and employers are lined up waiting to hire them away after six months. These folks don't see no jobs, bad times, etc., they see great opportunity. My last involvement with the school (as the architect) was to double the machine shop section and turn it into a CNC laboratory and teaching center.

Yesterday my 40+ year-old daughter (and wife and mother) graduated from nursing school and will soon start at the city's largest hospital as a surgical nurse. She spent most of her working life so far in the "corporate" world, but she's a smart and forward-thinking cookie and several years ago she realized that things were changing and what the corporate world promised and what it was going deliver were two completely different things. She realized she had to take control of her own destiny and make some changes and although it meant disrupting her life and having to make considerable short-term sacrifices, especially financial sacrifices, she decided to go back to school and retrain. On a couple of occasions she went to employment "roundups" held by the local hospitals and she was astonished to see applicants from other local university programs (not hers) , who are still only students with no credentials at all, sit down and bring the attitude, telling interviewers "Now ya'll listen here, I ain't gonna be working nights or weekends, I ain't cleaning up no poop or puke, and I'm not taking BS off these uppity doctors . . ." and needless to say their interviews ended right there. My daughter got the job and she won't want for work again. It was all about attitude and a willingness to do what ever you need to do to make it happen.

These are my recent personal experiences, your mileage may vary.

 

[kvom]

One of the local vo-tech schools shut down their machinist courses, for the reason that few students were completing the certificate. Turns out the reason is that many found machinist jobs before the course completion. But the low completion rate made the administrators look bad.

 

[ChooChooMike]

One of the local vo-tech schools shut down their machinist courses, for the reason that few students were completing the certificate. Turns out the reason is that many found machinist jobs before the course completion. But the low completion rate made the administrators look bad.

At the local community college, the shop classes have been more full then ever in the last few years. A lot of that has to do with the economy. People would rather be students then sitting out-of-work.

I completed the machinist/CNC certificates cause I had taken enough shop classes to qualify. I didn't need this as I'm just a hobbyist (albeit with an MSEE ). But does make the school's certificate #'s look better

Now I can pad my resume with those certificates !! Thm: Those'll trump my Master's anyday : :big:

Mike

 

[rake60]

Jay Leno had THIS to say on this topic.

A skilled machinist can go just about anywhere and start at a wage well
above the average pay scale for the area.

Some shops around here are even taking unskilled people into in house
training programs. That's how I started out 30 years ago.

Rick

 

[student_Machinist]

I'd like to think this is true but in saying that I have been looking for about 4 months for someone to take me on as an apprentice with no luck. Im not sure what to do at the moment because there aren't any courses for machining/fitting and turning that I can find. No one will hire me without a national qualification so theres not really any way to get any useful experience ???

 

[mu38&Bg#]

The availability of machinist jobs has to be put in context. What are the chances of finding machinist jobs in or around Detroit? On the other hand, the place my father works at filled 2nd and 3rd shift with new hires and temps this summer, we're outside Chicago. And they turn mainly bronze. Heck, they asked my father to come back and work for them and made it worth his time about a year ago. My father learned to program, setup, and operate CNC lathes in 1989. My uncle has a machine shop that continues to operate at a steady pace and has to compete with Taiwanese and now Chinese imports.

Other parts of the country and world will obviously have different demand and opportunity.

 

[Maryak]

Times change, ideas change.

If you think about it, any from of machining a part is a wasteful process. i.e. you are paying for quantity x and you only require quantity y.

The aim of modern design is to minimise the machining required to arrive at your finished item.

To me this minimisation means less machine tools and less machinists to operate them.

My mum was a Warper in the Lancashire cotton mills. There was a time when one loom operated by one person made one piece of cloth. In the 1930's 2 girls, a weaver and a warper ran 20 looms.

I know little of CNC but it seems to me the same thing will/is happening in our world.

There will be a nitch for machinists into the foreseeable future but IMHO the days of a shop full of tools each with a machinist in attendance are behind us.

Just my 2 bobs worth

Best Regards
Bob

 

[woodnut]

I am sure there will good jobs for machinists for a while to come, but with the new 3D printers rapidly being developed I have to wonder for how long?

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ-aWFYT_SU[/ame]

These printers are still in development and I am sure it will be years before they are available to the industry, but its just a matter of time before you will be able to just draw up or download a part complete engine, hit PRINT and a couple of hours later you go over and pick up your item.

Depending on your point of view, this is a very fascinating or a very scary machine.

John

 

[mu38&Bg#]

Additive manufacturing parts are extremely expensive and only cost effective when it's cheaper than machining or casting. These prototyping machines have been around for over 15 years now. Laser sintering for I have to guess 8 years or more. It's a very slow process. and things like bores still need secondary ops. It's great to see what a part will look like, but when going to production the parts generally end up cast. I try to keep up with this tech somewhat in case I ever decide to work for somebody else.

The laser sintering machines use a laser to fuse powdered metal into useable parts. We had a thread not too long ago. http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=15027.0