jan ridders internal valve plasma mastigater

[kcmillin]

Well, upon viewing this site, and postiing a few comments, I decided its time to start a new project. Its going to be an atmospheric engine designed by Jan Ridders.

here is my first saturdays progress.

making the fins and drilling the hole

boring the hole to size. I got lucky and did it in one pass. by accident of course.

milling the flat spot for the flame hole (not sure the official name for this) intake??

thats it for today.

tomorrow I drill the holes and fit the bronze bushings.

What do you guys think about using CRS for both the piston and cylinder?
thanks,
kel

 

[IronHorse]

Nice work so far.

Since these type of engines run without oil, I would suspect that a piston/cylinder of CRS, may rust after a while.
My next engine will have a 303 Stainless cylinder with a Graphite piston, I hope this combo works out.

Just my 2cents


IronHorse

 

[kcmillin]

Do you know of a good place to buy graphite? the plans call for cast iron, would that be a beter choice?

 

[putputman]

You can buy graphite from McMaster Carr. I buy the 1" sq X 6" long piece. It is less expensive than trying to find round stock.
UPS charges kill you on small orders so I always try to stock up on tool or other materials I need. They have good cast iron also if you want to try that.

 

[Blogwitch]

Personally, I would stick with making this engine as is, direct from the plans.

You will most probably have enough trouble getting it to run without having to take into consideration any modifications you do to it.

I think Jan quoted either cast iron/cast iron cylinder/piston specifically for the lubrication qualities inherent in the material itself.

If you read the trials and tribulations that this member went thru to get his running, it might give you an insight iinto what may be to come, and maybe a few pointers in the right direction.

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=6803.0

Blogs

 

[Stan]

I have not seen any flame eaters that would run continuously. It may be possible to design one that radiates heat as fast as it is absorbed, but all I have seen eventually reach a temperature where there is not enough cooling to continue running. It is therefore necessary to get the best cooling possible and I have found that an aluminum cylinder gets rid of the heat better than a cylinder with a fitted liner.

I have one with an aluminum cylinder with an aluminum piston that runs well and one with aluminum cylinder and graphite piston that runs well. Both will start instantly when the flame is put in position without preheating - just a turn of the flywheel.

Graphite is used extensively in EDM machines and lots of it turns up on ebay in all manner of shapes and sizes. Buy one big block and it will last you a lifetime. It is easy to cut on the bandsaw and easy to machine, just messy. I bring a piston to final size (fitting to cylinder) with the back side of the last piece of emery cloth used.

 

[Blogwitch]

Actually Stan, this Jan Ridders design will run as long as you feed the flame. I used to, and still do occasionally, get mine down and have it running on my desktop while I'm contemplating my navel and designing new things.

I can top up on the run as I have a remote reservoir to the burners, and I think the longest run must be about 3 hours up until now. In fact, the engine has to be well warmed up first before it will run. Mine has the cast iron piston/cylinder, as Jan designed it.

Blogs

 

[kcmillin]

Thanks alot for the info guys. I really appreciate it.

Well its time to do a little millin.
I should have some more pictures tonight.

kel

 

[kcmillin]

Well here is the deal. I would like to stick to using materials found in my shop.
Here is waht i have to use for a piston.
-steel crs
-aluminum 6061
-brass
-bronze
-acetal rod-??
What would be the best?

thanks,
kel

 

[kcmillin]

Here is sundays progress.

drill and tapping the mounting holes. I chose 1/4-20

drilling the valve guide

finishen pillars next to cylinder. I used aluminum and put fins in it. Maybee this will help with heat transfer. who knows??? I have a bunch.

I used some aluminum diamond plate for the base. I got a crap load of it at the scrap yard for less than $.40 per square foot. thats like 95% off the Menards and other hardware store prices.

finished valve rod

started work on the bearing brackets.
More to come soon!!!

PS> any ideas on what to make the piston out of?
There is a list of materials I have in this thread

 

[kcmillin]

Well, North Dakota was being its usual January self and there is a bit of a blizzard outside, no work today. Needless to say I got a little bit more done on the flame eater today.

Finished the bearing brackets. I love working with brass. too bad its so expensive.

creating a bead on the small pillars for the bearing brackets.

Got the crank all soldered together. Electricle solder that is. (I have had a lot of success using electric solder for brass, copper, and steel parts. So dont give me any greif. I dont want to spend $15 bucks for 6 inches of silver solder.

Cutting the flywheel blank out of my prized 2 1/2 inch round 3ft long steel bar

Here the the assembly so far. Thats all the parts for today.

Ime still looking for advice on the piston. I dont have cast iron, Ime thinking of using brass or bronze.?.?.? I have steel. aluminum, and acetal rod also.
Please help.

Thanks


kel

 

[Deanofid]

You're really moving along on this build, Kel. It looks nice, from what I see here.

Dean

 

[Blogwitch]

With reference to your piston question.

I would be tempted to go with the same material as you have made the cylinder out of.
Purely for the reason of both having the same expansion rate. A different material is just liable to either sieze up solid, or go too slack, all because it expands slightly different to the cylinder material.

Blogs

 

[kcmillin]

thanks alot Blogs. For now its steel. But I will soon be gettibg cast iron. I can only hope to get it to run as good as yours.

thanks again


kel

 

[kcmillin]

Well, I guess my dreams come true. Kind people of the internet cast their kindness on me. In the form of a chunk of graphite, provided by our verry own GailinNM. I cant say this enough Thank you thank you thank you.

So anyway I had already had a steel piston made, so I decided to try and finish the engine. (sorry no pictures today) So I got everything done, and was all set to get it going. So I grabbed my mini torch, and proceded to turn the engine over. And no suprise, NOTHING. Well I am not going to get down about it, it seems to be a kind of right of passage for these type of engines. It does make a nice popping sound, but the valve is a little sticky. Not to bad but enough to require some attention. I notice the seals of the piston and valves are my best so far, but how much vaccume should the engine hold and for how long??? I can get it to register on my vacume gauge but it does not hold for verry long at all. But hopefully the graphite will prove a good seal and lubricating qualitys.

So my question is, what should the fit between the cylinder and piston be? Should there be any slight leakage at all??? Or do we need a perfect, life or death seal?

Thanks


kel

 

[Deanofid]

Don't really have a direct answer, Kel, but looking at the crank bearings, they appear to have a plastic grease seal. Maybe it's just the picture. If they are sealed bearings, they probably make too much friction to let the engine run.
You can probably get the seals out with a dental pick. Wash the grease out of them, and use a very light oil.

Just a suggestion.

Dean

 

[kcmillin]

good eye dean, I can barely make out anything in those pictures. (sorry, no camera yet, just a phone) and yes they are sealed bearings. I will try this tomorrow morning. before work.

thanks,

kel

 

[kcmillin]

signs of life!!!!!!!! Cnat talk, gotta go, to excited.
;D

kel

 

[Deanofid]

Well, that's a mean tease.
: )

Dean

 

[kcmillin]

Sorry about the suspence. But with a little bit of fiddling, I goit it running. and verry well too. I ran 3 tanks of fuel through non stop for 2 and a half hours. I am so excited. I went with the steel piston, and using Blogs advice, put some graphite in the cylider. (I used pencil graphite) and sure enough iuts alive.

here are some more pics and a video of it running.
enjoy

making the piston rod thingy.

the assembled engine.



the engine is running!!!!!!!!!!


thank you all for the help. I could not have done it without you guys.

I think its time to make another one. This time using the graphite, and 12L14 that GailinNM is going to send me. (cant thank you enough by the way)

thanks,

kel