Gearbox Oil

[kiwi2]

Hi All,
I have an old Maximat V10P lathe. The recommendation in the manual (last resort) is to use sae 10 motor oil in the headstock gearbox. I'm having trouble finding single grade sae 10 oil with most people selling sae10w30 or sae 10w40 multigrade oil. Are these the same viscocity as the single grade material. The official EMCO oil was, as I recall, pretty thin but it's no longer available. I think the oil I'm currently using is to thick.
Alan C.

 

[Swifty]

Hydraulic oil is often recommended these days in headstock gearboxes. It would be thinner than engine oil that contains detergents that you don't want.

Paul.

 

[goldstar31]

Hi Alan,
There is a lot of ballyhoo about oils. As Paul rightly says High Bollock oil is often used but if you get the wrong viscosity you are back to square one.

My gearbox on my Myford came with a heady mixture of mahogany dust( seriously) and I flushed it out with White Spirit( Turps Substitute) and replaced it with SAE 10 something and whatever it is- is still there.

The ballyhoo continues! Myford specify a fancy Nuto 32 at an extortionate price -in little bottles. Years ago I got pee'd off and went into my local wholesale oil place. The guy got his book of words out and pronounced that all that it was hydraulic oil with a SAE32 viscosity.
"We only do 5 litre minimums but you can go around madly chucking it in high bollock jacks and lathe beds and oil the garden gate-- and still pay about the same as the teeny little bottle" So I staggered out to the little car with a container- and a gallon of lard oil and some of that snotty stuff that is supposed to work on slideways. Dead cheap!

 

[kvom]

My lathe headstock uses Mobil "heavy medium". I get it from Enco.

 

[GWRdriver]

My experience is almost Identical to GoldStar31's. My Harrison M250 owner's manual called for a "medium" gear oil for its headstock and listed half a dozen oils which would fit the bill, (among them Nuto32.). My local petroleum stockist recognized one of the names, Shell "Tellus 68", and said "Well that's just common ISO68 hydraulic oil and we got tons of the stuff" so I bought the 5-gal pail for dead cheap. I've been using ISO68 with complete satisfaction ever since, and in the process discovered it was a marvelous all-purpose lubricating oil for many other things around the workshop, including bedways and spindles. It quickly became my general oil of choice, with the one exception that I don't use it when I need a penetrating rust preventative/preservative. I know that hydraulic oils contain additives, a rust inhibitor for instance, but so far as I know for our needs they are "good" additives.

 

[kiwi2]

Thanks for all your replies. I went to the local transmission specialists and they are going to get me some sae 10 oil. Like you guys, I'm going to have to buy 5 litres but that's OK as it's not too expensive. The lathe has a geared head mill drill attached and I think it's even more important to use the thin oil on this. On the highest speed setting it slowly spools up to the correct speed which can't be doing the motor much good.
Thanks again,
Alan C.

 

[Ripcrow]

Hydraulic oil is also a very good drilling fluid

 

[goldstar31]

I'm a bit old fashioned but I use refined lard oil for both turning and drilling. When you think of it, this is what was used in industry until price was a serious consideration. Tapping and threading was done with tallow which isn't a fat( ouch!) lot from lard oil. My wife still uses it in a fancy little lip stick thing on her clarinet and saxophone joints. Incredibly expensive but there you go! I used tallow as we all did to wipe solder joints on all sorts of things from lead pipes( still here after 83 years) and car body work.

Thinking along the same lines, cars and bikes and aeroplanes were lubricated with castor oil.
Again, it got a fancy name like Charlie Wakefield's Castrol R-- and an huge mark up for a lovely smell but it was 'cow castor' all the same. It had only two faults. One was that once you got the stuff over 270C, you got varnish- so we made paint with it, and that killer of air aces- Montezuma's Revenge!

I've just had the 2 stroke hedge trimmer and the weed strimmer out and -like it says in the Good Book-- and 'Lo he stinketh!' Horrid smoke!

So I'll let you all get your fancy oils out. You know that they will kill you quicker!

Cheers from me

 

[Hat56]

A bit of deja vu I have just rebuilt said machine replacing a couple of fiber gears with alloy ones, new bearings in the quick change g/box, Readjusted head stock, reset gear change forks Etc Etc.

After talking with a few old heads and a not so old one Re hard to obtain 10 weight oil all agreed on either the Shell "Tellus 68" or Castrol "Hyspin 68"which these guys have been using for years with no problems.

Most places I tried would only sell from 1000 ltr pods to an expensive 5ltr so i found a friendly hydraulic shop, explained my situation and the nice man happily poured me out 1ltr to do the job.

With the g/box bearings I replaced the tin seal originals with rubber/neoprene sealed units but plucked out the inner seal and now have splash feed bearings and no leaks.

 

[Hopper]

Thanks for all your replies. I went to the local transmission specialists and they are going to get me some sae 10 oil. Like you guys, I'm going to have to buy 5 litres but that's OK as it's not too expensive. The lathe has a geared head mill drill attached and I think it's even more important to use the thin oil on this. On the highest speed setting it slowly spools up to the correct speed which can't be doing the motor much good.
Thanks again,
Alan C.

Be careful if the transmission specialists get you gear oil. It has to have the right GL rating so that the sulphur additives do not eat into any bronze such as bushings etc inside your machine.

Auto tranny fluid would be a better bet than gearbox oil. It is non-gumming to so keeps things nice and slick and is bronze compatible.

10w40 engine oil is probably ok too. It is basically a 10 weight oil with added polymers to make it lubricate like a 40 weight oil at 100 degrees C. It does not actually get "thicker" or more viscous as it gets hotter, just has the lubricity of 40 weight.
At the lower temps, like in your machine, it's just like a 10 weight oil.
I am not sure about various objections to the additives in motor oil for such use. Most car oils have anti-corrosion and anti-oxidation additives and I can't see the detergent in them doing any more harm than they do in a cold car engine.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Two major considerations with oil
1 viscosity rating you need ISO 32

the second consideration is additive package.

so a shell tona 32 or tellus 32 should work IMHO 10 wt oil sounds thing for gears and is more of a spindle oil. so inf this is for the spindle go with 10 sae or 32 ISO. tona is more of a way oil tell us is more hydraulic.
Any industrial oil maker supplier should have machine tool oil or be able to get it the down side is you may have to get a 5 gallon bucket.
Tin

 

[barnesrickw]

What Tin said.


Sent from my iPad using Model Engines

 

[goldstar31]

According to a writer 'Smokedaddy' in Practical Machinist forum in 2008 he owned a V10-P complete with its manual.

The manual quoted Emco oil Order No H13 7510 or commercial grade motor oil SAE 10 0, 21 anf thereafter every 500 hours for the headstock and

quick change gearbox 0.25 l Emco gear oil Order No H14 5520 or commercial grade gear oil to SAE140 to be changed every 500 hours.

In his blub he admits to have been using Mobil No10 spindle oil.

Now I know or knew what SAE 140 gear oil was. It was used in Lambretta LD150 scooters in the back axle part.

Some years ago, I was involved with a Professor of English in Tours in France who was restoring Hotchkiss cars and a DelaHaye. He needed some but couldn't get any in France and sought my help. So I told him the Lambretta connection and got him 5 litres from - a local hairdressers( I move in different circles than you might imagine) Jean Claude arrived in his Mercedes for a holiday with us. We swopped the 5 litre SAE 140 for the equivalent in top quality wine from his friend who had a cave on the Loire.

So now you know. A Norton Commando bike, or a British Seagull outboard or a little 1958 'Little lamb' or and if my memory is still hanging together a Silent LE 148 Velocette.

 

[Hopper]

Another source of hydraulic oil is motorcycle front fork oil. It is an hydraulic oil available in 1 litre or 1 quart bottles in grades ranging from 5wt to 30wt. It is not particularly cheap from the bike shops, but auto parts stores often have it cheaper.
Contains anti-foaming agents which are helpful sometimes in gearbox useage and anti-corrosion agents designed for room temperature use (not combustion temp use like engine oil).