Elmers #42 on Ebay

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rake60

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I really hate seeing Elmer builds on eBay, but I have seen several of them.

Rick


 

dreeves

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I checked on it today it sold for $300.00 Well below I would take for it.
 

rake60

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Even at that, it's a shame to this hobby.
I hope the seller honestly NEEDED that $300...

Rick
 

Twmaster

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Rick,

Not to be argumentative but why do you say that?
 

don-tucker

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I can understand that,part of yourself goes into making these engines and it's a pity to see them on e.bay,you can only assume that the seller really needs the cash or it is not his.
I don't think I could sell one of my engines or my brothers
Don
 

b.lindsey

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Lets see.....at $25.00/ hour that would be only 12 hours and I know that engine can't be done on manual machines in 12 hours. I agree with Sam, something north of $1000-1500 might be reasonable but at that price there isn't much market. The simple truth is this hobby is one of those "do it for the love of it" things. When I stop learning or growing in skills, I'll hang up the optical visor and quit. Until that happens, I am content to sit and watch them go round and round myself or enjoy kids (of all ages) smile as they see them run. The smiles may not put food on the table, but they are mighty satisfying, and just as valuable IMHO. I hope whoever bought it knows and appreciates what they have.

Bill
 

shred

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I've got no desire to sell any of my engines, but on the other hand, were I a 12 year old again, I'd be thrilled beyond belief to get my hands on a real live steam engine. Might even get me interested in such things enough that I'd go seek them out at a later date...










Now where did I put that old Mamod? If only I had some more Esbit tablets.
 

rake60

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Twmaster said:
Rick,

Not to be argumentative but why do you say that?
I just hate seeing Elmer's designs turned into a for profit venture.
At one time some idiot was listing a CD with the entire contents of the
Elmer's Engines book. I didn't see the final result of that, but I do know
Dirk was not impressed by the copyright infringement.

Rick
 

Blogwitch

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I can fully understand where Rick is coming from. Not a lot from the rip off point of view, but more of a personal nature.

When you put your heart and soul into bringing one of these little engines to life, I personally consider it part of myself, and it would be like selling say a finger or a toe.

I used to make and sell model engines, for my workshop upkeep, but that was a different matter, they were turned out six at a time on a production basis, and everything was geared to making it easy to produce but still retain quality, profitability and selling price was based around hours done and materials used.

With all my personally made engines over the years, I have only ever sold one of them, made from castings, so that doesn't really count. You might think I have a massive collection weighing down my shelves. I would have had, if I hadn't given them all away to friends over the years. They were just too precious to sell, but gave great enjoyment to the people I have given them to, and as far as I know, every one is still in the hands of the original recipient. From a model shop owner in Frankfurt, Germany, to my friend in Moscow.

The last actual engine I made was about 8 months ago.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1492.0

One of those silly little rocking engines. It now has pride of place in my 30 year old nephews study, running off a hidden fish tank pump.

He was very impressed with my work one time he came to visit, so I gave him a free choice of what engines I had in my shop. Rather than going for say one of my 'Paddleducks' engines or one of my turbines, which he could have had with no arguments from me at all, he chose that little gem. Enjoyment for me to make, even more enjoyment for my nephew, because he knows how much I had put into it, and by me giving it to him, was like me giving him part of me. Something to be cherished.

Some things are for selling, others, never.

Bogs
 

Twmaster

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Rick and Bogs,

I totally understand and can 100% agree with you both. Something like that would indeed be personal and have a special value well beyond some folding green.

I had not considered Rick's thought of selling something like that for profit. Ick. (Which led me to ask my question of why)

And selling a CD with the plans is just plain wrong. Way wrong. :(
 

Cedge

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Over the years, I've purchased a number of engines that came from stock built private collections and from estates. The tough ones were those old timers who felt it was time to dissolve their collections as they saw their allotted time coming to an end. I became the "good home" they were searching for and I tried to make a hard task easier. I paid fair prices for them with little or no dickering in the deals because I knew the emotional attachment and the personal expenditures of time and blood that created it.

Sadly, these were men who had no one to pass them to or their heirs were not interested in the least that he was offering them small treasures. I was more than once the only thing between an engine and the scrap yard. I've taken a bit of heat from those who build these engines, before I learned to build my own. Somehow saving the engines made me less than pure. I've had to change a few minds along the way. Salvaging and scavenging are not the same thing. Saving an engine from destruction or loss is not a bad thing.

I am lucky in that my grandchildren have already laid claim to my collection. When I'm gone, these engines will become memories of me, for at least one more generation. Somewhere down the line I suppose they will escape to other collections and some stranger will then wonder about the guy who built his newly acquired engine, much as I've wondered the same.

No... I can't sell the engines that I've created, either, but I'm also aware that as my memory becomes a faded ghost to generations to come, any emotional attachment will wane as well. I'll just be happy to know someone somewhere still enjoys and appreciates what I've created.

Just a different perspective....
Steve
 

bearcar1

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That was well phrased Steve. In the instance of this particular engine on Epuke, I cannot fault the person for selling it, albeit we will never know for certain if the deal succeeds or not. My take on the whole schmeer is that the seller most likely has/had no direct connection(s) to that engine or most likely has no clue as to its origins and history such as who made it, where it was made, and for what, such as a gift for a particular occasion. All of these factors would in my feeble mind generate some unforeseen value on this engine that would go far beyond the financial aspect of the situation. Under those assumptions, I have no problem with the party selling it, it most likely has wound up in the possession of someone that does and will appreciate the work for what it truly represents, (at least let us hope so) and will not turn around and 'flip it' in an attempt to make a profit. I too have purchased engines that I can tell have been doted over but I could tell that the psychological attachment that the builder had acquired was eased by the fact that I made it perfectly clear my intentions were not to sell it and that I honestly admired and appreciated all of the hard work that was involved in its creation. Even if this engine gets sold several times again, it will eventually wind up in the possession of someone that will continue to appreciate all that it has to offer and that is my hope. At least it did not wind up in the scrap pile or stuck away in a cardboard box in the back of a barn someplace and forgotten about. $300USD, what a steal.

BC1
Jim
 

kcmillin

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I could not agree more with all the posts on this thread. excellent points are being made on the thought of selling these engines for profit.

Please allow me to add a newbies perspective on things.

Up until a 4 years ago I thought that ALL model engines were made in a factory some where in China. I had no idea that these things could be made at home. Well much to my suprise I found out about these neat machines wich could take metal and turn them into art. (milling machines and metal lathes)

It was only once I bought a mini lathe and drill press that I discovered a home built engine is not only possible, but I can do it.

Which brings me to my point. If these engines were more available to young people and schools there could be a large increase in folks who are interested in this type of thing. There could be hundreds of great minds out there which will never know the pleasures of machining. Most people think that only a computer can make such intricate things. We must keep history alive by spreading interest in age old techniques and practice.

So selling such engines not for profit but for the prosperity of the trade should be welcomed.

However, patent and copyright infringment should be frowned upon. Instead, try making an engine to your own design, which is an even greater honor when selling, donating, or gifting.

It would be very difficult to make a "profit" without the aid of production practice and CNC. Any sale would most likely be at a loss. But the extra scrilla could go into the general fund to purchase more materials and therefore make more engines. I think we all know how expensive a hobby this is, and every little bit helps.

To know that a little peice of us will live on long after were gone, well thats as priceless as these engines.


Kel
 

Twmaster

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Which brings me to my point. If these engines were more available to young people and schools there could be a large increase in folks who are interested in this type of thing. There could be hundreds of great minds out there which will never know the pleasures of machining. Most people think that only a computer can make such intricate things. We must keep history alive by spreading interest in age old techniques and practice.

In the days when Elmer and Rudy K. (others too) were publishing their designs schools still had machine shops.

My father has a drill press in his workshop he built in his high school shop class. My uncle has other tools and goodies he made in his shop class. He went on to retire as a machinist from two companies. Sometime shortly before I set foot in Edgewood High School in 1978 they had discontinued all shop classes. Auto. machine etc. Done. Kaput.

I think this one thing has hobbled the home shop and tinkerer minds of many. I look at the magazines where years ago model engines were a regular feature. I see pretty much none today.

There are things I have made in my workshop (not engines) that you will have to pry from my cold dead hands. Mine. MINE!

I got the feeling the seller of that engine built it. He knew too much about it (or seemed to was my impression)

Truth is none of us can point at somebody and wag our fingers. None of us can know what circumstances brought that engine to be offered for sale.

Just my opinion. Offered free of charge. Prolly worth the price too. :big:
 

kcmillin

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Twmaster said:
My father has a drill press in his workshop he built in his high school shop class.
Wow. Thats a lot more useful than the candle holders I made in wood shop.
I would have died for the opportunity to make a drill press, or any tool for that matter.

Kel
 

Brian Rupnow

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I'm old now. Not a very nice fact, but there it is. (64 in July). When I went to school, (1961-1965) the highschool offered machine shop, wood shop, mechanical drafting, auto mechanics, electrical shop---and all the standard academic subjects. We had good machines and good, old school teachers. We all graduated, and some of us went off to higher education, some went off to a job, or even (gasp) an apprenticeship. Twenty years later, all of the "industrial arts" were scoffed at, and anyone who took "shop class" was considered to be "a bit slow" academically. Now, 45 years later, they don't teach this stuff in highschool anymore. This makes me sad, but really, with the shift of everything now being manufactured in the Pacific rim countries----Why would someone take these courses in school, when there are so few jobs to make a good living at that are based on "industrial arts"!!! I was born in 1946, and emerged into the workforce at a time when Canada was at its highest level of industry in history. Everyone I went to school with had good, steady jobs in manufacturing within a month of leaving school. I have seen manufacturing decline here since the early 1980's to a point where I wouldn't recomend a kid starting school to bother learning to run a mill or a lathe.----Brian
 

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