J
JorgensenSteam
Guest
There is a thread going on about a nice little generator/motor, and some interesting ideas have been presented in that thread.
In order to keep from getting off-thread, I will post this information here, but it is relevant to any generator/motor thread, especially when you start trying to figure out how your motor/generator works, and how much power it uses/generates.
But in a general sense, there is a great deal of confusion about electricity and how it works, and this often leads to urban myths about electricity. You cannot begin to work with electricity without understanding what is myth and what is reality, so I offer a few generalities about these for those who really want to know and understand.
Myth No.1:
You can make an electrical device that will create more energy than it uses.
Of course this statement is false, but why is the idea so pervasive in urban lore?
If someone sold you an automobile, and told you that as you drive the car, the engine creates gasoline and adds it to the gas tank, you would immediately know something is amiss. Since you can control and measure what goes into the tank, and what comes out of the tank, then you can quickly find out that engines don't put gas back into the tank.
With electricity, since few understand how it is used and measured, then it is easy for the general public to get fooled with the "free energy" theories. But if you understand how to use electrical instruments correctly, then you can easily measure what energy goes in, and what energy comes out.
People want to believe good things, and often the argument is used that look at what has been created by people who were told it was not possible. Anything is possible as long as it follows the laws of physics. All things that have been made by man all adhere to the same laws of physics. When people say "it can't be done", what that really means is that they don't have knowledge of a method that can be used functionally, but their lack of knowledge does not mean that what works does not follow the fundamental laws of physics. Very important distinction, and a mistaken argument that is often heard.
Myth No.2:
Scientists try to suppress new ideas about free-energy.
I have heard this argument many times, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to debunk free-energy machines, you only need to know how to correctly use a ammeter, voltmeter, and oscilloscope. Anyone can learn to use these items correctly, it is not difficult. A "red flag" on the free energy ideas is that you will never see these instruments during presentations. Accurately measuring what is happening with an electrical device is not what the "free energy" folks want, they prefer the smoke-and-mirrors approach, or the argument that this is something new that people don't understand. Measure accurately first, and then make claims, not vice-versa.
If you transfer X amount of energy into an electrical device such as a motor, you will convert some of the electrical energy into waste heat by heating the wires, which act as heat-generating resistors, by hysteresis and eddy current losses in magnetic cores, frictional losses in bearing, which generates heat, etc.
So if you transmit 100 watts of energy to a motor, the motor will not produce 100 watts of work, but will produce a portion of that amount in heat, and then produce less than 100 watts of mechanical work.
For a generator, if your prime mover is inputting 100 watts of mechanical energy into a generator, the generator will not output 100 watts of generated electrical power, but will produce less than 100 watts, because of the losses mentioned above.
A coreless design may prevent cogging, but I don't see any large scale devices that do not use laminated iron cores. Solid iron cores can be used, but the laminated cores minimize hysteresis and eddy current losses, and so are used almost exclusively in power devices of any size, such as transformers or motors.
Why are most power systems in use today 3-phase.
3-phase systems are just three 1-phase systems connected together, no big deal there. They originally experimented with 6-phase, 12-phase, and other phase systems, but settled on the 3-phase system due to its efficiency, and the fact that 3-phase motors produce constant torque (ie: very low vibration).
For very long distance power transmission, very high voltage DC systems are used, with a converter from AC to DC at either end of the line. These systems use a single wire, with the earth used as the second conductor. But 3-phase AC systems are used for power distribution because you have to convert lots of bulk power up and down in voltage, and the power transformer works with AC only.
Do I know everything about electricity?
Absolutely not, I will never know everything about electricity.
Do I understand electricity well enough to predict what motors, generators, and free-energy devices will do and how much power they will use?
Absolutely yes. It is as simple as knowing how much gasoline I put in my car, and how far I drive at what gas mileage.
Will people create more efficient electrical equipment in the future?
Absolutely yes.
Will people create electrical devices that "create" energy in the future?
Not on this earth, maybe in the center of some giant black hole, but I doubt it.
These things are relevant when you start measuring the input/output of your motor/generator on these threads though, so I mention them.
I don't know it all, but I wasn't born yesterday either.
In order to keep from getting off-thread, I will post this information here, but it is relevant to any generator/motor thread, especially when you start trying to figure out how your motor/generator works, and how much power it uses/generates.
But in a general sense, there is a great deal of confusion about electricity and how it works, and this often leads to urban myths about electricity. You cannot begin to work with electricity without understanding what is myth and what is reality, so I offer a few generalities about these for those who really want to know and understand.
Myth No.1:
You can make an electrical device that will create more energy than it uses.
Of course this statement is false, but why is the idea so pervasive in urban lore?
If someone sold you an automobile, and told you that as you drive the car, the engine creates gasoline and adds it to the gas tank, you would immediately know something is amiss. Since you can control and measure what goes into the tank, and what comes out of the tank, then you can quickly find out that engines don't put gas back into the tank.
With electricity, since few understand how it is used and measured, then it is easy for the general public to get fooled with the "free energy" theories. But if you understand how to use electrical instruments correctly, then you can easily measure what energy goes in, and what energy comes out.
People want to believe good things, and often the argument is used that look at what has been created by people who were told it was not possible. Anything is possible as long as it follows the laws of physics. All things that have been made by man all adhere to the same laws of physics. When people say "it can't be done", what that really means is that they don't have knowledge of a method that can be used functionally, but their lack of knowledge does not mean that what works does not follow the fundamental laws of physics. Very important distinction, and a mistaken argument that is often heard.
Myth No.2:
Scientists try to suppress new ideas about free-energy.
I have heard this argument many times, but you don't need to be a rocket scientist to debunk free-energy machines, you only need to know how to correctly use a ammeter, voltmeter, and oscilloscope. Anyone can learn to use these items correctly, it is not difficult. A "red flag" on the free energy ideas is that you will never see these instruments during presentations. Accurately measuring what is happening with an electrical device is not what the "free energy" folks want, they prefer the smoke-and-mirrors approach, or the argument that this is something new that people don't understand. Measure accurately first, and then make claims, not vice-versa.
If you transfer X amount of energy into an electrical device such as a motor, you will convert some of the electrical energy into waste heat by heating the wires, which act as heat-generating resistors, by hysteresis and eddy current losses in magnetic cores, frictional losses in bearing, which generates heat, etc.
So if you transmit 100 watts of energy to a motor, the motor will not produce 100 watts of work, but will produce a portion of that amount in heat, and then produce less than 100 watts of mechanical work.
For a generator, if your prime mover is inputting 100 watts of mechanical energy into a generator, the generator will not output 100 watts of generated electrical power, but will produce less than 100 watts, because of the losses mentioned above.
A coreless design may prevent cogging, but I don't see any large scale devices that do not use laminated iron cores. Solid iron cores can be used, but the laminated cores minimize hysteresis and eddy current losses, and so are used almost exclusively in power devices of any size, such as transformers or motors.
Why are most power systems in use today 3-phase.
3-phase systems are just three 1-phase systems connected together, no big deal there. They originally experimented with 6-phase, 12-phase, and other phase systems, but settled on the 3-phase system due to its efficiency, and the fact that 3-phase motors produce constant torque (ie: very low vibration).
For very long distance power transmission, very high voltage DC systems are used, with a converter from AC to DC at either end of the line. These systems use a single wire, with the earth used as the second conductor. But 3-phase AC systems are used for power distribution because you have to convert lots of bulk power up and down in voltage, and the power transformer works with AC only.
Do I know everything about electricity?
Absolutely not, I will never know everything about electricity.
Do I understand electricity well enough to predict what motors, generators, and free-energy devices will do and how much power they will use?
Absolutely yes. It is as simple as knowing how much gasoline I put in my car, and how far I drive at what gas mileage.
Will people create more efficient electrical equipment in the future?
Absolutely yes.
Will people create electrical devices that "create" energy in the future?
Not on this earth, maybe in the center of some giant black hole, but I doubt it.
These things are relevant when you start measuring the input/output of your motor/generator on these threads though, so I mention them.
I don't know it all, but I wasn't born yesterday either.
