CAD, CADCAM on Linux

[ajoeiam]

Greetings

There have been comments in some other threads regarding engineering tools run on linux (suppose *nix might be even better).
Starting a thread for discussing pros and cons of any and all such type tools.
(See - - - for me my computer is a tool - - - - not its own universe!!! - - - grin!).

I just ran in to a rather interesting tool that hasn't been mentioned on here - - - Salome.
Just started and as per usual the learning curve is about a vertical line - - - - what do you have to share?
Fire away!!!
(Please this is for Linux usable tools for engineering - - - please leave the M$ only tool discussion elsewhere.)

 

[RM-MN]

FreeCAD work fine on Linux and has some impressive functionality. Learning curve is nearly straight up on it too but there are some really good tutorials on it too, some of them as Youtube videos and some of them are by developers.

Once I get a design, then I can again use the CAM function in FreeCAD to create the toolpath and save it as gcode.

Gcode by itself isn't really exciting but then using Universal Gcode Sender or bCNC lets me push that gcode to the CNC mill.

 

[Vixen]

So what flavor of Linux do you use?

Is the Debian version they use for LinuxCNC adequate for FreeCAD?

Mike

 

[ajoeiam]

So what flavor of Linux do you use?

Is the Debian version they use for LinuxCNC adequate for FreeCAD?

Mike

I'm running Debian testing on my 'general use' machines and Debian stable on my servers.
(Due to past experiences when I really managed to bork things I now have a testing machine for each as well.
This means that when I start trying new things I do that on the 'testing machine' and the primary machines don't get borked - - - hopefully (grin!).
Machines getting borked is what happens when you only know a little bit bout the 'innards' and start doing things.
(In case you've forgotten - - - -"To err is human and to really f things up - - - well that takes a computer!!")
Debian is quite adequate for anything you want to do on and with a computer - - at least imo.

 

[Catpro]

Hello everyone,
I've been using Linux on all of my computers for years.
FreeCAD 3D-CAD for drawing my models
LibreCAD for 2D drawings
DXF2GCODE for CNC program creation. I'm still learning to do that in FreeCAD.
Blender for RayTracing graphics
LinuxCNC to control the milling machine

Linux can do everything what i need and works fine.
Sorry for my English it is translated as "babelfisch". I speak German.

Greetings Beat

 

[stanstocker]

CAD linux options - sadly limited:

3D parametric: I've used Freecad on Mint19. I seem to constantly slam into issues with constraints, always either under constrained or over constrained. I didn't have these issues with Fusion360 and don't have the issue with Alibre Atom, so it's something about Freecad I'm just not getting. I'm really a CAD rookie though, I'm sure it's me and not the application as many use it with satisfaction. I'll have to spend some time in Freecad someday and see if I can figure it out, but right now I have too little free time to fight with an application that I don't have to use.

2D: Librecad is about it for native open source. Good if a traditional 2D package meets your needs. There are a few others, but LibreCad seems the most true to the old school Autocad 2D approach.

It appears that Inkscape is starting to add more technical tools, but isn't a CAD tools now. Blender constraints are NOT CAD constraints, the term is used logically within the Blender framework, but has a different meaning than CAD constraints. I got sort of excited when I saw constraints, then found we were not using the same definition...

I finally gave up, swallowed my open source bigot pride, and bought Alibre Atom Workshop. It doesn't run for squat on my virtual box Win10 installation so I use a Windows machine. Gross, but I'm resigned to having at few of of the things around for some other needs and wants anyway.

CAM - even more limited, but at least resolvable:

Freecad (I understand, never got that far) has a functional to very good CAM component.

PyCam is mentioned often, I never could get anything useful out of it though, probably should go back as see if that's changed.

DXF2Gcode works for some people, but the folks who use it seem to often mention manually editing the generated g code, or patching it to work with their machine, or how to work around this that or the other.

I just want to make parts now and then. Fighting with weird problems can be interesting, did it for years, don't want to do it for the rest of my life. Windows CAM applications are the only really viable solutions for me, but at least some of them run well under Wine.

Meshcam and Vectric VCarve have both worked well using Wine on mint. VCarve has decent 2d drawing tools that were adequate for a clock restorer, but not CAD level tools. I used VCarve Desktop and Pro versions for minor stuff and as the CAM for creating gears drawn in Gearotic. Early clocks did not use any standard tooth forms, so often have to be created from scratch rather than just using normal module calculations. Gearotic works with Wine pretty well if you're a gear and clock mechanism junkie.

Useful, not CAD or CAM specifically:

Unfortunately GWizard is really a windows only app, a bit quirky, and it uses Adobe Air. Shame, the cutter deflection calculations are wonderful for saving very small carbide endmills from breakage. I went from breaking two quite expensive endmills partway through a single piece to making four parts with one endmill once I used the app for getting cutter deflection sorted out. All the other calculators several years ago were telling me my feeds and speeds were just fine and dandy, as they were only looking at chip load. I've recently been looking at HSMWizard and FSWizard to replace GWizard as they both are reported to do very well with small diameter cutters. Not free, not open, but at least web apps or Android/iOs for the phone/tablet gang.

 

[Tim Wescott]

@Catpro Deiner English ist viel besser als mine Deutch. Sagt es nicht unt wir werde es nich sehen.

Unless I've mangled that, because I wasn't using machine translation...

 

[moose4621]

I have migrated to Onshape. It's a cloud based system so not Linux specific but it is the best solution I could find and I am very happy with it.
I too got frustrated with the very steep learning curve of freecad and finally threw in the towel when trying to draw a tapered thread. In comparison, I found Onshape very easy to use and intuitive.
If I was a windows user, I would still use Onshape.

Like most others, I use LibreCad for dxf editing.

Sheetcam is my main gcode generator and it runs either as a linux app, or in my case, better under wine.

I have no windows machines anywhere near here. Everything is done happily in Linux.

 

[ajoeiam]

@Catpro Deiner English ist viel besser als mine Deutch. Sagt es nicht unt wir werde es nich sehen.

Unless I've mangled that, because I wasn't using machine translation...

Da muste ich ja lachen - - - leider ist mein geschriebens Deutsch auch Fehler beladen !!

 

[ajoeiam]

CAD linux options - sadly limited:

3D parametric: I've used Freecad on Mint19. I seem to constantly slam into issues with constraints, always either under constrained or over constrained. I didn't have these issues with Fusion360 and don't have the issue with Alibre Atom, so it's something about Freecad I'm just not getting. I'm really a CAD rookie though, I'm sure it's me and not the application as many use it with satisfaction. I'll have to spend some time in Freecad someday and see if I can figure it out, but right now I have too little free time to fight with an application that I don't have to use.

>snip

I also struggle with Freecad's constraint system.
Find it quite illogical and incredibly rigid.
If only they used mathematical or logical thinking in this area.
An example - - - - can only specify line segments in a counter clockwise direction (or is it clockwise - - - -argh).

I'm thinking that Freecad's greatest strength - - - - like so many different work benches is also its greatest weakness.
There is no overall leadership and therefore each workbench uses a different workflow.
Likely the coders rarely use more than one or two so as they see things - - - - well they're fine.
Now if you work (or play) in lots of different areas - - - - - well its a new learning curve for EVERY work bench.
C'est dommage!!

 

[awake]

I also struggle with Freecad's constraint system.
Find it quite illogical and incredibly rigid.
If only they used mathematical or logical thinking in this area.
An example - - - - can only specify line segments in a counter clockwise direction (or is it clockwise - - - -argh).

I'm thinking that Freecad's greatest strength - - - - like so many different work benches is also its greatest weakness.
There is no overall leadership and therefore each workbench uses a different workflow.
Likely the coders rarely use more than one or two so as they see things - - - - well they're fine.
Now if you work (or play) in lots of different areas - - - - - well its a new learning curve for EVERY work bench.
C'est dommage!!

Hmm - I haven't encountered any problems with constraints in FreeCAD. I'd be interested in seeing an example of what you are talking about - it may be that I have not done anything of the nature of what you are doing ...

 

[ajoeiam]

Hmm - I haven't encountered any problems with constraints in FreeCAD. I'd be interested in seeing an example of what you are talking about - it may be that I have not done anything of the nature of what you are doing ...

I'm sorta given up on FreeCAD at the moment.
Using LibreCAD for any CAD work right now.
Found 'Salome' and need to spend some time to see if I can wrap my head around its using for modeling.
Sorry - - - - was only reporting my experiences and trying to get a 'sketch' in FreeCAD with all the constraints - - - - - that was worse than stooking dry but previously very rained on red clover!!!!

 

[awake]

I'm sorta given up on FreeCAD at the moment.
Using LibreCAD for any CAD work right now.
Found 'Salome' and need to spend some time to see if I can wrap my head around its using for modeling.
Sorry - - - - was only reporting my experiences and trying to get a 'sketch' in FreeCAD with all the constraints - - - - - that was worse than stooking dry but previously very rained on red clover!!!!

Stooking wet red clover sounds like an exercise in frustration!

I need to qualify my earlier statement. I have run into occasional issues with constraints in a sketch, more so early on. Generally the problem arose because my sketch wasn't actually what I thought it was (e.g., end points were not actually coincident) or because I was over-constraining. When I said "I haven't encountered any problems," what I should have said was that I have not encountered any problems that I was not able to resolve. I do recall one occasion in particular when I was creating quite a snarl of complicated constraints, and FreeCAD was getting confused ... but when I backed off and tried again, I realized that there was a much simpler way to go about constraining the sketch, which worked perfectly.

Reflecting on this makes me realize that I hardly ever run into problems now - can't remember the last time I did. Some of this is no doubt learning how to do it better (courtesy of both experience and of watching tutorial videos) ... but I also think the last few updates have improved FreeCAD's ability to sort out constraints as well.

In any case, if you decide to give FreeCAD another try, and run into problems, I'd be happy to try to help you sort them out.

 

[kuhncw]

ajoeiam,

I noticed the last line in your post and it brought back some old memories. I've not stacked any red clover, but I've certainly baled my share of dry, but previously very rained on alfalfa. Dusty stuff and usually done on a 95F day with a substantial southwest wind (KS). Glad I was there, but I'll pass on doing it again.

Regards,

Chuck

 

[ajoeiam]

Stooking wet red clover sounds like an exercise in frustration!

I need to qualify my earlier statement. I have run into occasional issues with constraints in a sketch, more so early on. Generally the problem arose because my sketch wasn't actually what I thought it was (e.g., end points were not actually coincident) or because I was over-constraining. When I said "I haven't encountered any problems," what I should have said was that I have not encountered any problems that I was not able to resolve. I do recall one occasion in particular when I was creating quite a snarl of complicated constraints, and FreeCAD was getting confused ... but when I backed off and tried again, I realized that there was a much simpler way to go about constraining the sketch, which worked perfectly.

Reflecting on this makes me realize that I hardly ever run into problems now - can't remember the last time I did. Some of this is no doubt learning how to do it better (courtesy of both experience and of watching tutorial videos) ... but I also think the last few updates have improved FreeCAD's ability to sort out constraints as well.

In any case, if you decide to give FreeCAD another try, and run into problems, I'd be happy to try to help you sort them out.

Grin - - - - Didn't want to stook wet stuff - - - - that means fires from spontaneous combustion! (Seriously)

I've found the tutorials are usually at most for version 17 (FreeCAD) and rarely for newer. Then they are mostly videos - - - - I find those bandwidth consuming hogs that are difficult to follow when an intricate procedure is being followed. Text seems to be so passe yet the information density is SO much better. Then the coders most generally hate documenting - - - - - they want to code - - - - and therein can be seen the true nature of the problem. Coding is considered one function, documentation is another, and tutorials are a third. Now if all three of those were combined and new code not allowed until all three functions are completed - - - - well then you would have a much more usable system. Today documentation is a long ways behind and tutorials are seriously hit and miss.
My biggest beef is that EVERY one of the more advanced workbenches has its own work flow. This makes for little cohesion between such and frustrates any learner and 1/2 the battle is figuring out how to do what you want to do. Those that spend a lot of time with the software usually just learn the idiosyncrasies but it sure doesn't help with the learning.

Your offer will be filed for if/when needed.

 

[ajoeiam]

ajoeiam,

I noticed the last line in your post and it brought back some old memories. I've not stacked any red clover, but I've certainly baled my share of dry, but previously very rained on alfalfa. Dusty stuff and usually done on a 95F day with a substantial southwest wind (KS). Glad I was there, but I'll pass on doing it again.

Well - - - - imo the red clover after lots of rain on the swaths is far dustier and far itchier than alfalfa.
Where this happened our soil pH was quite low so alfalfa wasn't a large portion of our forage harvesting - - - - red clover was.
Got used to it but most people really hated that dust.
That work was a great training ground for the rest of life - - - - grin - - - - even if it wasn't all that appreciated at the time.
Many people now call small rectangular bales 'idiot cubes' still think they were a great learn to work tool.

 

[Tim Wescott]

Now if all three of those were combined and new code not allowed until all three functions are completed - - - - well then you would have a much more usable system.

You have absolute agreement from me on that point. But...

Coding is considered one function, documentation is another, and tutorials are a third.

I do a lot of coding (it's probably responsible for 50-70% of the money I've made in my career so far) and a lot of writing, including three or four book-length works (maybe 20-30% of the money), and a smattering of video production (0%, alas).

They're different skills. In particular, writing good code and good expository writing are two very different things. This especially applies to large projects, when you're not only doing the little bits, but making all the bits fit together into a cohesive whole. I've worked with numerous folks who are excellent at one and piss-poor at the other; there are a few, like me, who happen to be good at both -- but I can certainly attest that it takes a different kind of thinking to get each one done (and you're probably lighting up different areas of your brain).

Clearly there can be overlap -- but you can't narrow your field down to people who can do both or all three, or you'll never be able to recruit talent.

So they should be different functions, undertaken by different people, each skilled in their area, and all of them working together. And the folks that manage the effort (which is yet another skill -- which I don't have, at least the organizational part) should recognize that along with recruiting and encouraging coders, they should be recruiting and encouraging writers and videographers.

 

[RM-MN]

Well - - - - imo the red clover after lots of rain on the swaths is far dustier and far itchier than alfalfa.
Where this happened our soil pH was quite low so alfalfa wasn't a large portion of our forage harvesting - - - - red clover was.
Got used to it but most people really hated that dust.
That work was a great training ground for the rest of life - - - - grin - - - - even if it wasn't all that appreciated at the time.
Many people now call small rectangular bales 'idiot cubes' still think they were a great learn to work tool.

I've been raising red clover for seed as did my father. His sayings about red clover was that it was much easier to thresh if it had been rained on while in the swath a few times and that if you could see the combine through the dust, you weren't really threshing. I use a Massey Ferguson 750 self propelled and at times I can't see the feeder that is only 8 feet from me.

 

[ajoeiam]

I've been raising red clover for seed as did my father. His sayings about red clover was that it was much easier to thresh if it had been rained on while in the swath a few times and that if you could see the combine through the dust, you weren't really threshing. I use a Massey Ferguson 750 self propelled and at times I can't see the feeder that is only 8 feet from me.

We were too busy making hay to worry about seed - - - grin.
Bought seed from a neighbor (only some 20 miles away).
That's all a few days ago now though - - - miss htose days even if the work was tough.

 

[ajoeiam]

You have absolute agreement from me on that point. But...



I do a lot of coding (it's probably responsible for 50-70% of the money I've made in my career so far) and a lot of writing, including three or four book-length works (maybe 20-30% of the money), and a smattering of video production (0%, alas).

They're different skills. In particular, writing good code and good expository writing are two very different things. This especially applies to large projects, when you're not only doing the little bits, but making all the bits fit together into a cohesive whole. I've worked with numerous folks who are excellent at one and piss-poor at the other; there are a few, like me, who happen to be good at both -- but I can certainly attest that it takes a different kind of thinking to get each one done (and you're probably lighting up different areas of your brain).

Clearly there can be overlap -- but you can't narrow your field down to people who can do both or all three, or you'll never be able to recruit talent.

So they should be different functions, undertaken by different people, each skilled in their area, and all of them working together. And the folks that manage the effort (which is yet another skill -- which I don't have, at least the organizational part) should recognize that along with recruiting and encouraging coders, they should be recruiting and encouraging writers and videographers.

You have outlined the problem of FreeCAD in a nutshell.
1. There is no leadership
2. coders write like mad (some of what I see is phenomenal!!)
3. documentation happens very slowly and is generally at least 12 months behind the coding
4. tutorials - - - - well they're just thin on the ground.
5. the longer time users have gotten used to the miasma so this is all considered to be 'not that much of an issue'
this whole thing reminds of a rather sarcastic saying that I heard more than a few times in my youth - -
- - - - "you know, after a while a dog gets so used to being hung by the neck that he doesn't even kick anymore."

If FreeCAD could resolve all this - - - - I think they could put Catia or any other huge CAD system in the dust - - - FreeCAD has even more going on and a far wider range of thinking (that's wonderful). I don't think it will happen though which is just too bad.