brazing steel with bronze question

Discussion in 'Metals' started by werowance, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. Feb 2, 2015 #1

    werowance

    werowance

    werowance

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    the other day I wanted a large cap nut and wanted it in copper, brass or bronze. not having the necessary tap to cut the threads I decided to take a coupler nut and turn the outside down just a bit and then bronze braze the outside of it. I have no problem sticking 2 pieces of steel together with bronze braze - usually just weld it though, however in this case I need a good thick coat of bronze around it. for the life of me I could not get a thick covering of the nut with bronze as the excess would just drip or flow off the nut. it would have been good if I were just trying to do a repair or stick 2 pieces together but not for the idea I had.

    is there a trick to doing a thick layer of bronze on something? or is that pretty much just the way it is.

    ended up just buying the tap the next day but I think it would be usefull to be able to build up a part with bronze then machine it back down.
     
  2. Feb 2, 2015 #2

    bobsymack

    bobsymack

    bobsymack

    Vince O Brien

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    You need to put it on bit by bit,put on some braze let it cool and then put on some more other wise the piece gets too hot and it runs .
    hope this is of help .
    Vince
     
  3. Feb 18, 2015 #3

    Nick Hulme

    Nick Hulme

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    You can do that easily with bronze wire and argon gas using a MIG ;-)
     
  4. Feb 19, 2015 #4

    werowance

    werowance

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    are you pulling my leg, they have bronze wire for a mig?:eek: I already have a mig and argon that I use for aluminum, never heard of bronze welding wire. if so I gotta get some because that would be perfect.
     
  5. Feb 19, 2015 #5

    newdirection

    newdirection

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    What about silver solder ? I don't know if it would be strong enough for your application, and it is pricey $.
     
  6. Feb 19, 2015 #6

    werowance

    werowance

    werowance

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    well, actually don't need it for that project now as I just bought the tap I needed and tapped the threads in brass. but I can see the usefulness of coating say a nut or part in bronze and cut it down to have a bronze wear surface. but on the same note, silver solder is also hard to "build up" in thickness for me as well.

    sort of was looking at 1/4 inch thick or more for what I was going to do.
     
  7. Feb 19, 2015 #7

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

    Cogsy

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    Several different copper based mig wires are available, including some silicon-bronze, for welding copper alloys to themselves and to steel. Handy stuff by the sounds of it. (I had no idea it was available either, I just Googled it cos I was curious :p)
     
  8. Feb 19, 2015 #8

    newdirection

    newdirection

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    I didn't get the jest of what you were trying to do, that's what happens when you don't read the post well. The silicon- bronze wire sounds great. I have seen it used in Tig welding, the mig wire is new to me also.
    Thanks
     
  9. Feb 19, 2015 #9

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    About 30 years ago, I was doing a City and Guilds in Motor Vehicle Restoration after my retirement and used it then on my own Mig/Mag welder. It was being pushed for sale in restoring well rusted car bodies. Frankly, it was expensive, was too soft and deformed on the rollers in my own Mig and and consequently caused jams. I finished up using it with my Oxy/Acetylene set for fairly fine work.

    That was a long time ago, and things might have changed since. Perhaps I was more of 'bottle set guy' and was set in my ways- even then.

    As a suggestion, a spot welding attachment on a mig is an ideal and cheap way of building up wear or to improve fit.
     
  10. Feb 19, 2015 #10

    Nick Hulme

    Nick Hulme

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    I keep bronze, copper, stainless, aluminium and mild steel wires in stock, with Argon and CO2 this allows some fairly unbelievable welds to be accomplished.
    I was a Vauxhall dealership panel beater when MIG Brazing was introduced, it's specific purpose was to replace the (already outlawed for production and soon to be outlawed for repairs) process of tinning & leading roof to body-side panel joints to produce a corrosion resistant joint, especially important where these went into the windscreen mounting apertures.
    I also worked in classic car restoration and can confirm that there is no good way to deal with corroded metalwork other than cutting it out and replacing it with new steel, it's actually easier and quicker than "Welding to lace" and also makes for a lasting repair,

    - Nick
     
  11. Feb 20, 2015 #11

    gus

    gus

    gus

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    Hi Nick,

    Thanks for the updates. I was using MIG Welding Machines 15 years ago to auto-weld steel sockets on to air receiver shells.How long ago was bronze wire made available with MIG. Plan to buy a MIG machine sometime later.
    Will be a M.I.C aka Made In China MIG Machine. Waiting for feedback from my mates who just bought them. 10 years ago they breakdown easily.
     
  12. Feb 20, 2015 #12

    Nick Hulme

    Nick Hulme

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    We had a training video on MIG brazing in the bodyshop in the late 80s but I believe bronze MIG welding was used in some industry sectors far earlier, I worked at IMI Yorkshire Imperial in Leeds in 1983/4 and they were using MIG for copper & bronze,

    - Nick
     
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  13. Feb 22, 2015 #13

    Wizard69

    Wizard69

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    I still haven't heard anything good about M.I.C. MIG welders, so don't expect good news. At least not good news from somebody that has used a decent MIG welder. On the other hand it does seem like at least some of the inverter based stick welders coming from China are pretty good.

    Not to sound like an advertisement but Lincoln has come out with a new MIG welder, a multi process welder really, that would fit right into many of the home shops that people here have. I was very tempted however already having a MIG has made me close my eyes.
     
  14. Feb 23, 2015 #14

    gus

    gus

    gus

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    Hi Wizard,

    Gus will buy/test/evaluate a M.I.C. Inverter Stick Rod Welding Machine. These mini welders are good for domestic power and no power trips. Maybe next buy a TIG machine. My welding skills is trade school level and will never make AWS level. If the weld holds,I will be happy. Please advise feed back on these two welding machines.
     
  15. Feb 23, 2015 #15

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    Gus,
    Kung Hay Fat Chow
    I think that both Aldi and Lidl( two large German supermarket chains in Europe and UK) are selling these for about £30. They do work - and I got a rather nice leather apron from the accessory kit when nobody wanted them and the price dropped.

    I bought a stick welder from Aldi to do ONE job- and then scrapped it. It was cheaper than paying silly prices for a bloke or a tool or both. What the wise are doing is to buy 'Chinese' with Migs as well and doing the same.

    Again, I am buying 'Oriental' stuff and getting a three year unconditional warranty which is better than I can get elsewhere. I 'm running a trio of cars in the UK, a Mercedes Sports, an Audi A4 Avant S line and Skoda Monte Carlo but the little Spanish registered Hyundai is nearly as good-- and a lot cheaper. the body work is better than one Mercedes that needed 2 new wings, 2 doors, a new tailgate and 4 alloy wheels- and then the engine blew up. My son's S Class Estate has just come in from France- and has 'a pool of 'oil' underneath. So he's running his little Lotus!

    So stick welders? I'd do what I did years ago and fit a carbon arc thing- and braze our little workshop 'hobby' items. If we are 'hobby' engineers and I think that we are- if others are not, then doing something like what I have suggested is cold, economic sense.

    Meantime

    Enjoy the Year of the Goat.

    Norman
     
  16. Feb 23, 2015 #16

    gus

    gus

    gus

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    Gong Xi Fa Cai( in PutongHua).
    Thanks for the feed back. The M.I.C. Stick welders are cheapy and nasty but they do work for a good while. At least they don't trip the mains or the neighbourhood sub-station. Plan to build another RT with Divider Plate to cut gears for the Howell V-2 timing gears. Little bit of welding required.
    Having a dry spell now and fishing will be good.
     
  17. Feb 23, 2015 #17

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    Hi Gus,
    Agreed as the price of quarter tank of gas/diesel, what you say makes sound sense.

    Mind you, all this fancy making of a rotary table and all its fiddle faddle, you can do much the same with a school child's plastic protractor. Not as interesting or noteworthy but I bought an old surface grinder and that was what came with it. On the same topic, there is a Goniostat from the Society of Ornamental Turners to do lathe tools-- and that is part of the design!

    Read an article about making a gear cutter from two ground ends of a lathe tool--- and he wrote a book on Screwcutting. Bloke is dead now but his book is still selling. He was also the person who tempered HSS steel with a carbon arc set up. It's quite a story but you have to dismiss what someone without the same sort of brain taught earlier.

    Anyway, I hope the fish are biting. Me, I set off to do a simple silver soldering job on one of my wife's music stands and couldn't manage to hold it - it was snowing.

    Cheers

    Norman
     
  18. Feb 23, 2015 #18

    werowance

    werowance

    werowance

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    I know what you mean about the rollers deforming wire, used to do that on mine with aluminum until I bought the spool gun, now that's the way to weld with aluminum unless you need to fit into a tight spot, then its a pain.
     
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  19. Feb 23, 2015 #19

    goldstar31

    goldstar31

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    As you will read in my post to Gus that I gave up( well temporarily at 84) such things. However, your point is well made and others should be aware and be guided.

    So my thanks and more power to your elbow.

    Norman
     
  20. Feb 23, 2015 #20

    Wizard69

    Wizard69

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    Hi Gus;

    The welder I was hearing good things about was being imported by Harbor Freight. Unfortunately I don't have the model number and frankly it stood out as the one welder HF was importing that was worth anything at all. It came up in a conversation on one of the welding forums.

    If you are looking for current advise or manufactures names I'd suggest hooking up with a couple of the welding forums out there. Apparently there are "better" welders coming into this country via E-Bay and Amazon so maybe you can get good recommendations there.

    Currently I have an older Lincoln MIG welder which is very good but also limited to just MIg/Flux Core. I'm not sure I'd recommend a MIG welder for somebody focused on this hobby as it isn't as flexible as a stick welder, especially a stick welder that supports TIG welding. If your interests are broader then all means consider a MIG. With TIG support though you have far more control.

    The other option is a multiprocess welder like this new machine: http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/Equipment/Pages/product.aspx?product=K3963-1(LincolnElectric). It can do MIG, stick and TIG(DC). Probably a master of none. That being said I'm certain that if you find a machine like this being made in China, everybody in this forum would be interested especially if it comes in at well under $1000. It would save having to buy multiple welders for many.
     
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