brazing steel with bronze question

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goldstar31

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Just an update. I've just arrived home with a second hand 105 amp Mig and one of those fancy helmets which changes when an arc is struck.
At £75 which is less than the price of a tank of gas, it seemed too good to miss. We'll see. I've used shielding gas but never this newer fluxed wire variety. Any reports about it, please?

On my way to see the seller guy, I popped into the local supermarket for the odd food that I'd forgotten. Next week,There were Sharpenning stations using diamond wheels with spare wheels for £15 and double ended grinders for £20 advertised . OK, I have enough of both but really I wondered whether I was seeing things.

Hummm?

Norman
 

Swifty

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Hi Norman, I've often been tempted by those gasless mig welders, but have never seen the results. I have only heard that there not that good, still have a problem with slag on the welds.

Paul.
 

Cogsy

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The flux does make some slag although nowhere near as much as normal arc rods. Beacause of the slag though, and the lack of shielding gases in front of the torch, better results are had when running a bead while pulling the torch rather than the traditional pushing the torch forward. This keeps the weld pool away from the slag.

For cheapness and portability they can be good units though I vastly prefer a full gas setup.

Out of sheer desperation I once welded a 4" long crack in the side of the cast iron cylinder block of my speedway car with a gasless mig and it held up perfectly. In fact I continued to use that block until I sold the car.
 

goldstar31

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Thanks Paul and Al for the input. Basically, I don't want to be involved with large gas cylinders in what is now a very small, downsized workshop.
Space and time are at a premium. Again, I don't want the growing expense of silver solder etc.

Now, I think that this will go for a lot of workers who don't have access to facilities outside their own home outfits.

Going off in a whopping big tangent( sorry) I think that it is time to bin my wooden plate camera- and try to come into the 20th Cen- sorry 21th Century.

If I can keep the Old Grey Reaper outside the house, you never know!

Regards and Thanks

Norman
 

ShopShoe

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goldstar31,

I'm only a self-taught occasional welder, but learned with help of pro advice. I got a wire welder than can take either flux-core wire or solid wire with shielding gas. For the thin-metal work I bought this for, the shielding gas approach will provide more localized heat and create a welded joint with less distortion of the adjoining metal. The solid wire I use is also harder than the flux-core wire. It is also provides a weld that takes less cleanup.

As a man-of-many-hobbies, the flux-core wire is extremely useful and economical and I leave the machine set up with flux-core most of the time. Since my machine has several heat and feed settings, I have a fair amount of flexibility in what thickness of materials I can weld and I cannot provide any more information about the very small and low-cost machines on the market. I have seen recommendations for some of those for sale in the UK in some British car-restoration books I have, so I think you may have done all right with your purchase.

--ShopShoe
 

goldstar31

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ShoeShop,
Thanks for the information- most informative.
As you will guess, I sort of bought the little Mig without knowing a lot about it. From subsequent guessing/ I think that the claim of it being dual purpose is wrong. It suggests that this is a gas bottle job and to convert it to a dual macine will involve reversing the polarity- amongst other tasks. Probably, it could mean a new roller and so on. I simply don't know- yet as it is early days. However, I have bought a disposable CO2 bottle to play with.

Really, I am not too worried about the welding process with gas as I have a City and Guilds in Motor Vehicle Restoration. A Looooooong time ago, naturally. I am most interested, however, in the flux filled wire process of which I literally haven't a clue.

Given a bit of time, I hope that I can pass on my discoveries.

I was at the refuse dump re-cycling my grass cuttings and came back with a few lengths of square hollow tubing. I have some from a scrap table as well. It might turn out to be a Tinker tool and cutter grinder. So far, no one has really commented about one. Let's say, I am interested.

Meanwhile, thanks to all for the input

Norman
 

Swifty

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I have seen the mig welders advertised as gas / gasless, I recall that one of the local hardware chains has introduced welding gas bottle swap without the yearly hire rates, may be worth me investigating further. The cost of having to pay yearly bottle hire has put me off in the past.

Paul.
 

goldstar31

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Paul, Apologies but I hadn't signed in earlier.
You are quite right about DP machines but I suspect that mine isn't. It can be but probably the change over etc and fitting the new electrics will out price 'bottle hire' for a year. I'm heading for 85- too quickly!

I must mention that this is a very much out of date bargain basement and untried machine which I got. Several things arise, however. I'm not, and never was an engineer( whatever that means)I could buy a scrap car ( a VW Polo) for £75 and give it to my son for his 17th birthday and he is now almost 42. However, and this is important( and on topic) a tool and cutter grinder can be fabricated-from steel sections. I built a Stent from castings and my present one- bought just for the motor, is equally as good. I might have a fancy Staking tool from castings but my first one came from a guy who welded up a very similar one.

It does offer thoughts beyond the more usual ways of making things- in the home workshop.

Regards

Norman
 

Tin Falcon

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I have A cheap department store variety gassless wire feed welder that was given to me . An acquaintance from the church was moving back to WV. And gave me the welder I gave him some traveling money in return.
I have taken welding classes at the local vo-tech was trained as a welder by the USAF and worked in a Fab shop sometimes welding 300 - 400 pipe to plate welds a day.
So I have a little welding experience. IMHO the wire feed welders are fine for back yard fabrication projects with 1/8 steel. I have welded up several decorative shelves a storage rack for steel and my son has used it to turn a small pickup truck body into a trailer.

Yes the home flux wire leaves some slag to clean and the little splatter balls are a pain but. for the money they work well. And welding like painting much of the success is in prep and finishing. I bevel all but welds. Easier line to follow and helps penetration.
And remember the flux gives off a lot of fumes so use plenty of ventilation. I weld out doors.
Tin
 

werowance

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I agree with tin. My Lincoln weld pro 175 was sort of a freebie from the to brothers who first started teaching me to weld. Was first flux wire only which in my opinion works better on dirty greasy steel better than gas. But that said once I put the gas kit in my welder then later put a spool gun on it I rarely use flux


flux leaves a huge amount of slag and contamination that takes some work to remove before painting. But flux seems to work better for quick farm equipment repairs. Even on cast iron which I know you aren't supposed to weld with standard wire and standard steel welding practices yet it will penetrate and hold really well.

Everything else is pretty much co2 argon gas mix with mig wire. Clean v groove the joint and weld. Little to no cleanup before primer and paint.

Using smaller gauge wire with gas is also nice as u have fewer jams and can twist the weld lead at a sharper angle and not cause a jam


Example I would use .040 or .045 in flux but with gas I use .030 or .035 because the core is solid in the gas wire

AnywAy if you switch from flux to gas please remember to reverse polarity on your leads. Fought that little detail when I converted to gas and couldn't hardly stick 2 pieces of metal together. It just bounced off the surface of the steel


Good luck
Bryan
 

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