BEGINNER - Where do I start?

[gazatteer]

Hi

I have a new hobby, model steam engines, for the past couple of weeks. How long this hobby will last? I have no idea.
I am a 110% beginner. I am a software developer and I have no idea about mechanical engineering/cad.

I have done some research on the net and watched a lot of youtube videos but I still don't know where to start.

There are so many model steam engine plans. They all seem very complicated though the concept of steam engine is simple.

The lathes cost a lot of money £400+, on ebay, for just to build a model steam engine. There are lathes that are over 50 year old (phew), like Myford ML7 (correct me if I'm wrong), and is still selling for over £600. I can't spend that amount of money on a lathe, I'm getting made redundant in couple of months time from work.

I have another problem too. I don't have a room for a lathe at home.

Should I buy Autodesk Inventor? but then again, why if the design are available on the net?

So where do I go from here? (See how lost I am. I think it's information overload or none at all) n ???

Thanks

 

[Loose nut]

Start out small, simple projects, see if you like the hobby and if so go bigger when you can. Tools including a lathe or mill are life time investments, you can't justify them for just building a small model engine. You have to look at it as a necessary evil for this type of hobby.

If you where into boating it would cost a lot more to buy even a small boat and you couldn't justify the cost for weekend sailing, but people do. It a necessary evil if you want to go boating.

Or golfing.

Or flying

Or any of a hundred more expensive hobbies.

As for buying Autodesk Inventor (great program) unless you are getting a great deal on it Wink, Wink, Nod, Nod, the cost of that program would equip a shop with first rate equipment. You may like to design things with a cad program, I do but experience has shown me that machining what you draw isn't always possible, at least not easily. Stick to designs that you can find for free to start. There are plenty of those around.

 

[Babba]

The way I started . . .

I bought a part to modify my motorbike for £60, very usefull & a worthwhile mod to the original. It was basically a £2 lump of ally CNC'd to shape, drill a few holes & et voila'. Everyone I knew with the same bike wanted one . . . there was a profitable market which the original supplier couldn't feed.

In 5yrs I have spent more than £10k on tools, £3.5k on software & 1000's of hours learning & perfecting how to make them (& lots of similar items) myself. When I started out I knew very little beyond the very basics, now I can confidently draw in 3D CAD, convert that thru CAM & even manually type up a CNC program. Throw the billet stock in a vice & select the correct tools to machine the part, finish the part, then sell the part.

I set myself a goal & achieved it. The fact that my goal posts are constantly moving further away from me, constantly requiring more £££'s input & constantly requiring more hours of discovery & learning is largely irrelevant, the first time I held a perfect part in my hand that I'd made myself was almost better than sex. The first time I came across an unknown bike with one fitted out on the road was almost like attending my childs graduation.

No one particular person held my hand, started me off & steered me through the last 5yrs, lots of people did, realworld physical people who were happy to chat over a pint & lots of internet people on sites like this who don't necessarily have to answer a question, just post up their experiences & their solutions (I thank you all).

You will come across lots of people who can't help you but you will rarely come across someone who won't help you.

I'll help to start you off. You're not going to be able to make much at all without access to a lathe &/or mill. If it's a total impossibility to own your own then pop along to your local further education college & have a chat with an instructor/lecturer (IME don't waste your time with the admin bods). You can learn the basics, make things & play with some fantastic equipment all at the same time.

If it is possible to own your own, you can still make something worthwhile on even the tiniest desktop machinery.

It's a steep learning curve & don't talk to me about information overload. You have to start somewhere but untill you do you're going nowhere.

 

[chbeyer]

Hi,

if you are not willing to spend half a fortune for tools and don't have the space to host even a miniature workshop you will probably be best off with a pretooled kit. If you were in germany I would recommend a kit from regner like this one:

http://www.regner-dampftechnik.de/echtdampf/images/bausatz_expl_primus.jpg

You will surely find something similar in the states. You can build almost every kind of steamengine/loco mounting a kit like this on your kitchen desk where you simply put things aside if you need the space for something else. The engines are equally nice and the process of building the engine takes quite some time and will be nearly as fullfilling as machining the parts from scratch. If you find out that live steam is really the new meaning in your life you will sure enough buy a small lathe (like a sherline) and more equipment later on

cheers
christoph

 

[Omnimill]

Not an easy question to answer! I guess there are almost as many different paths to were they (we) are right now as there are members on this forum. I think many of us start with buying some simple tools to enable us to get a particular job done, and if that first job works out well be buy more tools to get more jobs done! I bought my first milling machine to enable me to make something for another hobby - so one hobby supports another. I'm sure it is the same for many others on here. Then there are those that have turned "work" skills into a hobby and the list goes on.

Where you start on this path depends on how much you want to do it and how much disposable income you have! As far as larger machines go I wouldn't mind betting that over 90 percent of folks on here started with a bench drill.

Good luck.

Vic.

 

[robwilk]

Hello and welcome Gazatteer .

If you are just wanting to have a go without the outlay of money if you put in tin can stirling engine plans in google you get loads of links to free plans. These engines can be built with things you probably have around the house or shed and need little tools to build them maybe if you get one of these running it will help you decide weather to invest or not .
But be warned there is nothing like your first engine springing into life and it it highly addictive. ;D
Good luck and keep us informed of your progress

Rob.......

PS where abouts do you live .

 

[gazatteer]

Seriously, I did not expect this much advice. Thank you all, very useful information.

There is no doubt that this is one of the most expensive hobbies. I have been looking on ebay and small parts for a lathe cost £30+. There are lathes that cost thousands but I suppose they for companies than individuals.

I do love model trains (owner of 2 model trains ) so eventually building something like that would be ideal, even though it is way far away, my own model steam engine train. I don't think I will ever spend £10k.

College...I was lecturer for about 6 years at a college and believe it or not I was based in the Engineering department, teaching computing subjects. I have contacted one of my colleagues but he has not replied. I feel shy to ask him or other teachers for help but I will try contacting him and others again. I have recently applied to go back into teaching, same college. Wish me luck

Thanks again

 

[gazatteer]

There is no doubt that my budget is extremely tight and I want to keep everything to a minimum.

Building a tin engine from household stuff is a very good idea but I think I like making chunky fly wheel, the crankshaft, the piston, etc. I don't know how to put it, I just want to get my hands dirty, like they say.

@robwilk, I'm based in Yorkshire, England.

 

[Ken I]

Ask around - is there a local steam or machininists club.

We have one locally with lathes, mills etc available to subscription members.

Plenty of advice and demos as well.

Ken

 

[Babba]

There is no doubt that my budget is extremely tight and I want to keep everything to a minimum.

@robwilk, I'm based in Yorkshire, England.

<Snort> I'm pretty sure that went 'whoosh' over the heads of the rest of the world ;D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Yorkshire

 

[steamer]

Gazatterr,

I think Ken I's post is your best bet. It would let you "test the waters" before you start spending money.

Additionally, check out the Mini lathes. Their not bad....

But I would confirm your position " with yourself" on the hobby before you spend any real money.

I may be you just need to get a mechanical "fix" is you will , and a club may provide that......That part is up to you, but glad you came and asked the question...you never know till you ask

Dave

 

[gazatteer]

Thanks lads

Babba, wiki! I wonder if the York in Yorkshire is orginiates from cricket delivery, yorker. Definitely not. Love cricket and now steam engines.

I have found this
http://www.bradfordmes.co.uk/

Bradford's very own model engineering society. Will contact them for membership.

I have mainly been looking at mini lathes Clarke CL500M and Myford ML7, both of these kinds are going for £500+.



Thanks

 

[Babba]

I needed a bigger lathe but an ML7 is what I'd go for if my use was limited to a hobby.

They are much sought after & even the knackered one's are bought by those savvy enough to restore them & sell on for parts or profit.

The best one's tend to come available 'cos grandads passed away !

If you could find the money & learn how to keep one in top condition then I'm sure that if/when it comes time to sell then you'll get that money back & maybe even more.

 

[Ken I]

There you go then - 32 quid for an annual subscription is a lot less than any machinery purchase just to find out if you like the hobby.

Check out if they have machine facilities and what is the availability / cost / rules etc. - you often have to provide your own cutters for obvious reasons.

An old established club like that is bound to be well equiped with donations from old members.

The Myford is excellent for this kind of work - learn how to "drive" one first - also things to look out for when purchasing 2nd hand etc.

Have fun.

Regards,
Ken

 

[gazatteer]

The ML7 are about 50 years old (I read somewhere) and still selling for over £500. I thought used (old) equipment is cheap but I suppose not when it comes to lathes.

It's sad but yes most of the lathes are being sold because of inheritance/bereavement.

First step for a beginner.
Raise money - Sell old/unused equipment to raise money to buy a lathe and fully fund the build of your first model steam engine.

I think I should treat the first step as a unbreakable rule. There are too many benefits to raising the money instead of paying it from monthly wage.

Will this rule be broken? Will have to wait and see.

Thanks

 

[Loose nut]

I don't know what new Super 7's sell for over there but around here they can go for over $12000.00 ( that's not a typo) so 500 #'s would be cheap.

 

[Babba]

The ML7 are about 50 years old (I read somewhere) and still selling for over £500. I thought used (old) equipment is cheap but I suppose not when it comes to lathes.

I don't like to use words such as cheap or expensive, I prefer to use words like value for money or affordable.

It's sad but yes most of the lathes are being sold because of inheritance/bereavement.

Sad but true, I bought a few items from a chap selling his dads lifetime collection on eBay, a dealer had offerred him £500 for the whole workshop, he was up to £7k when I picked up my new polishing mop with quite a bit more still to go, after 2yrs use it's in just as good condition & probably doing more work than it's ever done in its 20+yrs history.

First step for a beginner.
Raise money - Sell old/unused equipment to raise money to buy a lathe and fully fund the build of your first model steam engine.

I think I should treat the first step as a unbreakable rule. There are too many benefits to raising the money instead of paying it from monthly wage.

Will this rule be broken? Will have to wait and see.

Thanks

I knew I had to have a lathe & CNC mill for my project so the decision of whever or not to buy one was already made for me. Knowing nothing, zero, diddly squat about 'em took me 6+ weeks of solid research to put right. I still took a man 'who knows' with me whenever I viewed anything 2nd hand.

If you're going to buy one then IMO go for an ML7, but first consider that against a new Chinese of similar price. What swings it for me is the potential resale value of the ML7 over anything Chinese.

I paid £1500 for a new Chinese clone of a Harrison M250 against the £2000 we'd seen for a good 2nd hand M250 (& that was cheap). Today my lathe is worth £500 on a good day, if only I'd bought that M250.

 

[SeanG]

As you are short on funds and space a Myford ML10 is smaller and cheaper than an ML7 - the disadvantage being the size of work it can handle by comparison. I've got one and I'm very pleased with it. Plenty big enough to make a model engine on - not that I've got that far myself yet scratch.gif

 

[gazatteer]

I saw super 7's going for over £2k on ebay in England. I'm not really sure what the difference is between the £2k and £500 ML7 lathe other than the price.

I have not considered Chinese lathe, not because of it's drop in value ;D over the year but rather the availbility in England. Lathes are so heavy and shipping costs would be more than the actual price of the lathe.

I may have asked this question before but I am still trying to understand from your comments what you make with your lathes. Is it only the model steam engines? Or is mechanical engineering your profession?

Thanks

 

[gazatteer]

I have been ebaying for few weeks now. Have a look at the following link lathe. I know somehow (ok mainly from price) that ML7 is a lot better than the following lathe but would this make a better first choice? Is it 7x10? The owner doesn't know. There are other similar type lathes on ebay as well. Is this similar to Clark CL500 without the drilling bit on top?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170581255161&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

Thanks

p.s. after a long time searching for a lathe on ebay I have found that most lathe sellers are based down south cost of England. Not many sellers up north