When it makes sense to spend the $$....

[Troutsqueezer]

I am notoriously cheap. I will buy the cheapest thing available just to see if it will do what I need done. This includes drill bits, end mills, you name it. If it doesn't do the job, I will keep upgrading until I find the tool that does. So far, I have had to upgrade very few tools and consequently have money left over to fund some of my other many hobbies.

After three years in this hobby (still a newbie) I have learned this: This forum and others like it can be relied upon to provide the utmost in how-to's, techniques, engine theory and good ol' camaraderie but for tool/brand recommendations, one must take everything with a grain of salt. I often see my machines and tools referred to as "crap, junk, can't hold a tolerance, can't drill a round hole", the list goes on. My experiences however, almost never correlate to fora-based advice when it comes to the quality of tool one must have to do a good job. There is no question a better tool can do a better job but almost always, the cheaper tool will do a good enough job. Since I'm not in production and engaging here on a hobby level, everything is as it should be, here in my little bubble.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

-Trout

 

[lensman57]

I am notoriously cheap. I will buy the cheapest thing available just to see if it will do what I need done. This includes drill bits, end mills, you name it. If it doesn't do the job, I will keep upgrading until I find the tool that does. So far, I have had to upgrade very few tools and consequently have money left over to fund some of my other many hobbies.

After three years in this hobby (still a newbie) I have learned this: This forum and others like it can be relied upon to provide the utmost in how-to's, techniques, engine theory and good ol' camaraderie but for tool/brand recommendations, one must take everything with a grain of salt. I often see my machines and tools referred to as "crap, junk, can't hold a tolerance, can't drill a round hole", the list goes on. My experiences however, almost never correlate to fora-based advice when it comes to the quality of tool one must have to do a good job. There is no question a better tool can do a better job but almost always, the cheaper tool will do a good enough job. Since I'm not in production and engaging here on a hobby level, everything is as it should be, here in my little bubble.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

-Trout

Hi,
As a total hobbyist I tend to agree with you to a great extent, professionals tend to have other priorities than us but a tool or machine must be fit for its purpose or its a waste of money.
A few decades ago I had a very small photographic business, the amount of money that I paid for the proper pro stuff would make most of my friends run a mile with fear but in the end these equipment had to perform accurately and reliably with predictable results, I guess that was no different to some of the machinery we play with.

Regards,

A.G

 

[shred]

I'm with ya there. Most of my end mills came out of the 'used-but-still-good' box at a local machine shop. They are mostly Atrax and the like but work very well for most things. I have an 'import' drill set that does very well. There's no way I'm buying A-Z or 1-40 of "Proper" domestic tools when I use those sizes once a year, if that. Tools I use a lot or have a high disaster-factor (small taps) I get the expensive ones, but otherwise for lightly used tools, 'whatever' usually works.

 

[ShopShoe]

I generally start with whatever I think is a good value for the price (Not always the cheapest price) and work toward replacing most-used items with better-quality ones as I need them or when I think a project will require a higher-quality tool.

I generally find some of the import cutting tools are not so much always-bad as extremely variable in quality: I have had "favorite" cutters that worked well and had long-lasting edges and decided to buy the same again from the same vendor and ended up with junk that got dull quickly or broke.

What I do is a hobby for me, but if I had to outfit a shop for someone else I would choose all top-of-the-line stuff.

Sometimes studying the larger dealers' full catalogs (print or online) will turn up really good items you can buy for not much more than the sale bargains. For a hobby purchase I can afford the time for comparison shopping and waiting periods that may be required for backorders, if I was in business I would have to put more value on my time and choose to spend more on known consistent quality and delivery than on comparing options.

--ShopShoe

 

[CMS]

I try to buy American at all costs, but even with that attitude when I see "Distributed By" on the package, can't help but have doubts about it. Now I know this thread it about tools and machinery, but think a bit further LIKE,,,
Clothes
Food
Appliances
Hardwear
Fasteners
ECT.

Shoot, looking through the bags of chocolate for Valentines Day, and the Heresy's Kisses I picked up were made in Mexico.

 

[lensman57]

I try to buy American at all costs, but even with that attitude when I see "Distributed By" on the package, can't help but have doubts about it. Now I know this thread it about tools and machinery, but think a bit further LIKE,,,
Clothes
Food
Appliances
Hardwear
Fasteners
ECT.

Shoot, looking through the bags of chocolate for Valentines Day, and the Heresy's Kisses I picked up were made in Mexico.

Hi,
I guess that is what they call global economy, but still if one wishes to buy an item of real quality good money has to be paid for it be it made in the US, EU or even China and India.
By the way I must say that this is not always guaranteed as last night my solid carbide Sumitomo boring bar that I paid through my nose for stopped boring an 18mm hole in 6082 Aluminium about 450 rpm and 0.05mm feed per rev, I thought the tip had chipped again as this has happened twice before, on examination I found that entire head assembly had cracked away and fallen in the hole it tried to bore. A real waste of a lot of money for something that is supposed to be top quality.

Regards,

A.G

 

[Wrist Pin]

A little story:
Back in the 80's, I ran a tool crib for a manufacturing company. I ordered good quality tooling from USA and some Israeli stuff and good tools were coming out of Japan. I ordered some drill bits and drills from Brazil were ship in. I thought, "Brazil??? Since when does Brazil make cutting tools???". Well, we tried them in the shop and they were some of the best HSS drill bits we had seen in quite awhile! I was quite surprised!!

The only explanation I could think of was a lot of Nazis fled to Brazil and other south American countries when the war ended. Perhaps they set up tool manufacturing operations there. From what I was taught, the best machinists and machines were German just before the war. True or not, I don't know but I would like to get those Brazilian drill bits again.

 

[tornitore45]

Dean,

I buy my cutters direct rather than from UK retailers, they work out much cheaper, but you have to wait for delivery a bit longer.


John

John you may have something there. Chines stuff come in different quality level. I suspect that they bin the production like semiconductor manufacterer used to do.

Second US vs. UK import quality. In the US is all about competition, many companies decide to compete on price sinking deeper on the quality curve.

I suppose in UK that mentality is somewhat attenuated, there are fewer companies and most prefer to place a limit to how low they go on quality.

Please explain a bit how you go about finding/contacting/ordering direct.

 

[Swede]

I totally understand the "buy cheap" mentality, and it can pay dividends, but it's a lot easier to buy cheap with a $15 micrometer and then upgrade (if needed) to a $60 micrometer. It's hard to say the same with more expensive tools, up to the machines themselves.

My 3:1 machine got me going, but in retrospect it was a boat anchor. I sold it for $300 to a friend. He got going, sold it and bought a Clausing lathe and a nice clone VM. That 3:1 machine was like a crack hit... hooked us both, but in the end, it didn't do what we needed.

There are some things it is best to "go quality" with in the first place. Inexpensive/smallish machines can produce fabulous work with a competent man at the controls, but the same machine can turn a noob completely off from the hobby.

In the end, everyone finds the path that works for them, preferably one that doesn't waste money.