What's the Deal?

[Canyonman]

So, Somebody fill me in on the banning of compound driver? I just pulled up his posts and found nothing in the least out of line.

So to Whom did he not Bow?

Are we going to start becoming elitist's, like "the Possee" over on Don's PM site? Remember his is a professional Machinist and Machinery forum. He simply got stuck with HSM'ers and now must tolerate them. His words, ask him!

Or Harold_V's reincarnation of the old Chaski Board? All posts allowed as long as you praise Harold!

I joined here in the hope that it was as far from these arrogant SOB's as possible. As a matter of fact, HSM'ers have come flocking here due to exactly these reasons. I thought this place would be different! It certainly appeared we were going in the right direction as the membership here skyrocketed!

And now we are Banning people? WTF?

And how was this done? I didn't see a poll, so I guess we are not a democracy? So have we signed into another dicktatorship? Where one must self censor their posts, or it will be censored for them? Or even Removed? And then "Off With His Head!" {I thought I would add that to make this Bilingual}

I found compound driver to be most articulate, always placing SAFETY FIRST and WARNINGS when necessary. His projects were well thought out and adequately photographed.

I HAVEN'T SEEN ANYONE ELSE <Myself Included> TAKE THE TIME AND ADDED EFFORT TO PUBLISH ANY BUILD PROJECTS!!?

SO AGAIN I ASK, TO WHOM DID HE NOT BOW? AND WHAT WERE HIS INFRACTIONS?

I didn't see any. Bogstandards explanation was weak at best and describes all of us at one time or another. I personally was impressed with compound drivers photo-essays and watched with great interest.

I propose we INVITE HIM BACK, if he will come back. Albeit I'm sure he will be offered a "muzzle" to which he must agree. It seems a shame that the muzzle would even be necessary! And, as has been preached to me on other forums, someone needs to grow a thicker skin!

I have copied this and will continue to submit these questions until they are adequately answered, and in case they mysteriously dissappear. So, unless this is a dictatorship, I believe we are entitled to some answers. Who knows, after adequate facts are provided I may agree with you.

I feel this action is counterproductive and turns our Forum in the wrong direction.

Regards,

Ken

 

[mklotz]

Ken,

Calm down, fellow.

First off, this isn't a democracy. No BBS is. It belongs to the people who started it and keep it operating. They're free to moderate it as they wish.

Personally, I welcome tight and unyielding moderation on a forum. The HSM forum is almost never moderated by its owners and the results aren't pretty. One has to wade through an impossible amount of off topic BS to find even the occasional nugget of utility. PM, on the other hand, doesn't have a lot of OT crapola because Don gets rid of it. That's a plus, not a minus, on my personal scoreboard.

You're welcome to question why Compound Driver was banned but I think it's unfair of you to implicate that it was done as some sort of personal vendetta by Bogstandard or any of the other moderators. There's nothing to suggest that and your comments are needlessly inflammatory.

 

[rake60]

Ken, and everyone else here....

Please read the NOTICE in the About Model Engine Machinst heading.
I placed that post on November 8th so it is not a heat of the moment thing.
Those terms will be enforced here. There will be no exceptions.

Rick

 

[Mcgyver]

Too bad, I'm inclined to agree with Ken in that from reading the threads, a reason for banning alludes me. Marv is right of course, its not a democracy, but presumably the objective is to make the forum as good as it can be which must include bringing in knowledgeable posters, especially those who put a lot of time into making good contributions. Those photo essays were great imo. Based on what I'd read, nothing of Kevin's seem inflammatory or less than good advice, I suppose we must have widely varying views on that or i didn't notice a lot of incendiary content on his part.

While its true HSM has a lot of garbage, I think moderating drama on the various forums (in general) has a price as well.....if nothing else i;d prefer to read what was said, good bad or ugly, rather than have posts deleted (sort of like a data integrity thing). A brawl's bad, but a spirited discussion (we're not always going to agree) is a good thing imo. Thing is, it's not much fun if it's like walking on eggshells and it can also contribute to a reluctance to post.

I suppose it's a tough balance to strike. I appreciate what Rick's objectives are for the site, and support them. too bad about Kevin though..it's the forum's loss imo. I do think a better explanation, no wait, I'm not entitled to an explanation, ok, a better understanding of posting guidelines would be good as i don't recall seeing a post by Kevin that I thought offside.

 

[gilessim]

I also feel a little sad for compound drivers exclusion, we English can be very fiery and obstinate at times, especially us creative ones (so my Italian wife keeps reminding me!, she's also very creative, difficult combination!!),whilst I agree that, within the posts, a certain decorum is needed, if only in the form of editing out "effing and blinding", as we,from over the pond say, but also that the moderators job ,if we don't want this forum to go x-rated, is necessary.

I agree with Mcgyver in that it must be a tough balance to strike, but it still seems to me to be a very informative and open forum, I personally didn't find any of CD's comments offensive, I only hope that if there were any, that it were those that were edited and for a good reason and not just for some kind of "personality clash" or similar.

I think that Ricks Notice is a fair and simple enough guideline to go by, as long as we steer clear of political terms like; democracy, dictatorship and even oligarchy! (lets leave those to the "superbeings" :-\ who "run" the world) we'll be OK but I'm also of the opinion that we could maybe "forgive and forget" sometimes (let's not get into religion either by the way!!), perhaps that's already been tried, I don't know, but anyway, thats my 10 cent's worth....Giles

 

[Canyonman]

Hi Marv,

"First off, this isn't a democracy. No BBS is. It belongs to the people who started it and keep it operating. They're free to moderate it as they wish."

That is true, but I still retain the freedom of speech, whether it bothers you or not.

"PM, on the other hand, doesn't have a lot of OT crapola because Don gets rid of it. That's a plus, not a minus, on my personal scoreboard."

AHHHhhh, the Posse speaks.

"You're welcome to question why Compound Driver was banned but I think it's unfair of you to implicate that it was done as some sort of personal vendetta by Bogstandard or any of the other moderators."

I believe some clarification is needed here, I don't believe you will find that I have any sort of vendetta towards Bog or any of the moderators. I am still simply asking why? And I have heard very few facts to back the action taken.

"There's nothing to suggest that and your comments are needlessly inflammatory." Inflammatory?? Well maybe, that falls into the "Glass half full or is it half empty" discussion. I am sorry you are inflamed. I hear preparation H works well.

Needless-Hardly. I went back and read Ricks goals and I agree with them wholeheartedly!! But I must say I'm surprised. I was always impressed with CD's photo-essays, and he never seemed anything but amicable. I did not detect any condescension or argumentative statements. And I was following in "real time." Does he have a problem with authority? Or maybe he is Bi-Polar.

John's note, however is mildly offensive to me.

"Towards people who have no chance of understanding it,"

Who is he to dictate how intelligent or what level of experience I may have. Or even what I would like to read? I feel few, including myself, regarded the delivery of CD's posts as argumentative. I still would like to see one of these mystery posts.

I have heard that his response to "counselling" by our moderators was condescension. Have you ever felt ganged up on? What was your reaction? People seem far to eager to expel rather than determine the cause of his attitude.

Rick's message is loud and clear,

"I started this forum I promised it would never be allowed to become a badgering arena, and it will not!" And I concur and say well done!

"If it's constant, and "Just the way they are" I will not keep them on the membership."

Not that it is anyones business but I will admit that I am Bi-Polar. My Bi-Polar will never be cured, I have good and bad days. Am I also to be ostracized? Or must I relegate myself to the "Lurkers"

"Anyone who is incapable of a civil tongue will be banned."

That is a pretty tough road,

"Anyone who thinks we will not back up our ideals for this forum will soon find that we are very serious about it."

Absolute power corrupts absolutely, but is there no compassion behind those lofty goals?

Surprisingly I have received a number of messages of support. So I guess the day wasn't a waste. But actually I think Jethro Tull said it best in "Thick As A Brick" 1976:

"I may make you feel but I can't make you think..........My words but a whisper your deafness a shout"

Now I know what the commercial means by, "An Army of One."

Regards,

Ken

 

[shred]

Perhaps the most egregious posts were deleted? Reviewing what's left is not going to tell the whole story.

I'm on a lot of forums, and the ones that set rules and stick by them are by far the best. It's a constant balance between over-moderating and under-moderating (I'm a mod on several), but ticking off a few people now and then is more or less de rigeur.. either that or the forum dies from junk or dies from non-use.

 

[Bogstandard]

A personal message to Shred,

There is no need to explain the rules.

It has all been done and said before, but this member seems not to be able to inwardly digest them without answering back and forcing a response.

If this member feels like he can't settle down and keep within them, maybe he should feel free to go and be his constructive self elsewhere.

No-one can complain at how I worded that.

John the hatchetman

 

[Cedge]

this thread is getting a bit far afield from building engines, but you'll notice it has not been locked and nothing has been altered. Freedom of speech is the first thing that pops up when something like this happens, but even that freedom has limits and often brings on consequences. You can't shout "FIRE" in a theater, you don't joke about bombs in an airport and it matters not how drunk you get, you don't mention your desires to off a president or the queen. Ask the Dixie chicks about consequences for exercising freedom of speech. They learned they are indeed free to speak but the world around them will extract a price if they cross certain lines. That is just how society works, whether US, UK or any other place I've heard of.

As a member of this board we are guests in Rick's world. It's a world he's worked hard to create and make a success and he's invited us to participate. He's also let us know the social mores he expects us to honor. If the invitation was to visit his home, who among us would expect him to sit quietly while an invited guest dominated his home, reviled his other guests and told him to stuff it when he protested? Dunno about Rick, but the offending guest would count himself lucky that I opened the door before he went through it. If my next door neighbor challenged me because I removed an obnoxious guest from my home, we'd have some serious issues as well.

Logging onto a computer and putting your name in a tiny box does not give license to indulge in bad behavior. Joining the board does not entitle you to the keys to the place. Rick is the final word when things get out of hand, but he's asked the mods to join him so that personal bias or anger do not color his decisions. While Rick made the final choice to ban a member, rest assured there was much anguish and not a little gnashing of teeth among the admin team that preceded that decision. A number of attempts to temper his aggressive posting and condescending tone were made before the discussion of a ban was even mentioned. None had any effect.

Not everything that happens on a board is seen in the posting areas and we as mods don't air complaints in public, yours nor ours. It is not good for the smooth operation of the board and some things just naturally require being held in confidence.

Now... let's put what is an obviously unpleasant and disagreeable event for all concerned behind us and go on and build a few engines, tools and friendships.

Steve

 

[deere_x475guy]

Now... let's put what is an obviously unpleasant and disagreeable event for all concerned behind us and go on and build a few engines, tools and friendships.

Steve

Amen to that!!...and hey gang I am getting closer on my Twin..)) (just thought I would add that) ;D ;D

 

[Julian]

Quote from post by John in "No longer a member"

Some of the offending posts have been removed, but others with some useful information have been left in place.

If you are going remove CD's supposed offensive posts from the forum then don't be hypocritical remove the lot....you can't choose to keep only the informative ones...all or nothing. He put alot of work into them to make them interesting and useful.


Julian.

 

[tattoomike68]

This crap will be locked, prolonged gripes will do us no good.

Mistakes can be made but believe me, Iv been an admin on other sites that deletes the ban list every week just so people can start over.

I will never judge anyone on thier worst day, if we need to make clarification of the rules then we will as they are pointed out and update the rules.

We just want a friendy site, I have some sites that are just for unfriendy jerks who want to fight over politics and religon I have them. If you are interested just PM me.

I am willing to give anyone another chance a few times, this is just a message board but I wont have a few people act all bitchy and run the other happy members off.

So nothing is written in stone, this is just a place to have fun and if you dont want fun here them we might have to send you out to make your own site.

#1 goal here is to have fun, thats it. nothing less nothing more.