what oil do you use?
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I don't know what part of the world you come from, but here in the UK we use these sorts of products.
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Oils__Lubricants___Adhesives_etc_124.html
Slideway oil is as described, usually has an 86 in the number.
General purpose oil for down the ball lubricators, something like 3 in 1 is a little light. You could use a mutigrade motor oil (new not used) without coming to any harm.
For gearboxes, it is usually recommended to use a medium weight hydraulic oil, again in the UK, something like Tellus 32. It is the 32 that is the key. That would also be OK for lubing your tapered head bearings, as sometimes, overpacking with grease can cause serious damage, oil is the usually recommended lube.
The reason for say a dedicated slideway oil instead of general purpose is because it is designed to give the correct film thickness for the lathe parts to run on, and to have the necessary strength the stop metal to metal contact when under pressure.
But like most things, any lubricant is better than nothing at all, but it is always preferred to use the correct one.
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http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Chronos_Catalogue_Oils__Lubricants___Adhesives_etc_124.html
Slideway oil is as described, usually has an 86 in the number.
General purpose oil for down the ball lubricators, something like 3 in 1 is a little light. You could use a mutigrade motor oil (new not used) without coming to any harm.
For gearboxes, it is usually recommended to use a medium weight hydraulic oil, again in the UK, something like Tellus 32. It is the 32 that is the key. That would also be OK for lubing your tapered head bearings, as sometimes, overpacking with grease can cause serious damage, oil is the usually recommended lube.
The reason for say a dedicated slideway oil instead of general purpose is because it is designed to give the correct film thickness for the lathe parts to run on, and to have the necessary strength the stop metal to metal contact when under pressure.
But like most things, any lubricant is better than nothing at all, but it is always preferred to use the correct one.
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My machines use three types of oil:
Way oil for ways
Spindle oil for spindles
Headstock oil for the headstock of the lathe
Each has a different viscosity as specified by the manufacturer. Way oil needs to be sticky. Used motor oil typically has metal particles and would be a bad choice for anything.
Way oil for ways
Spindle oil for spindles
Headstock oil for the headstock of the lathe
Each has a different viscosity as specified by the manufacturer. Way oil needs to be sticky. Used motor oil typically has metal particles and would be a bad choice for anything.
doc1955
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This is the oil used in the shop where I work for 35 years so it is what I am using for headstock and ways.
Vactra#2 oil
Vactra#2 oil
rcplanebuilder
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Now that I am repairing CNC's for a living, (I fixed big jets for a long time) I pretty much know what goes in all of them, Vactra #2 for slideways or 68 waylube, etc, and gobs of other lubes for everything else, all the way up to ISO 100 and 150 for some of the bar feeders, which is all good, ....but there is a big difference between manual shop tools and CNC's that are ripping away at gear boxes and ball-screws, back and forth, with ferocity 24/7.
Personally, I use the same Mobil 1 that goes in my SUV for all my ways (brand new oil, not used), and pretty much everything else on them. It makes a great tapping oil too, for one off deals. I use Acculube paste for production tapping along with flood, but my advice is to say stay away from anything that gets thick and sticky for manual machines. If you are running CNC's hard 24/7, and have automatic lube systems that shoot it up every 7 minutes, that's another story, but anything that gets gummy after sitting for a week is no good on a manual machine IMO. Way oil (68) is really just a low quality cheap garbage oil, vactra #2 seems much better, but it is still a "once through the system and flush it away" oil. ... The black carbon and garbage settles out of it right out of the drum. ... The film strength, and load carrying capability of a synthetic motor oil is waaaaay beyond any loads a manual machine is going to see, even in a gear box.
If you want thicker oil, a 75 weight Mobil 1 gear lube is a good option. You aren't going to wear anything out with either of them. They are so far beyond the needs and loads of the machines we are using in the shop, and so far beyond the protection of any standard petroleum based oils, that it is simply, way overkill. I keep a bottle with a snout on it for lubing anything that moves at each of the machines, and I'm not afraid to use it, and I fill the way luber with it too. A little Moly-disulphide grease on the manual screws with some occasional Mobil 1, keeps them slippery and free at all times.
So, I am with you on this one. Pure synthetic engine oil all around for our manual machines.
The 2.5 million dollar CNC's, ...use what the manufacturer says to use... but that's a whole different topic IMO.
Personally, I use the same Mobil 1 that goes in my SUV for all my ways (brand new oil, not used), and pretty much everything else on them. It makes a great tapping oil too, for one off deals. I use Acculube paste for production tapping along with flood, but my advice is to say stay away from anything that gets thick and sticky for manual machines. If you are running CNC's hard 24/7, and have automatic lube systems that shoot it up every 7 minutes, that's another story, but anything that gets gummy after sitting for a week is no good on a manual machine IMO. Way oil (68) is really just a low quality cheap garbage oil, vactra #2 seems much better, but it is still a "once through the system and flush it away" oil. ... The black carbon and garbage settles out of it right out of the drum. ... The film strength, and load carrying capability of a synthetic motor oil is waaaaay beyond any loads a manual machine is going to see, even in a gear box.
If you want thicker oil, a 75 weight Mobil 1 gear lube is a good option. You aren't going to wear anything out with either of them. They are so far beyond the needs and loads of the machines we are using in the shop, and so far beyond the protection of any standard petroleum based oils, that it is simply, way overkill. I keep a bottle with a snout on it for lubing anything that moves at each of the machines, and I'm not afraid to use it, and I fill the way luber with it too. A little Moly-disulphide grease on the manual screws with some occasional Mobil 1, keeps them slippery and free at all times.
So, I am with you on this one. Pure synthetic engine oil all around for our manual machines.
The 2.5 million dollar CNC's, ...use what the manufacturer says to use... but that's a whole different topic IMO.well this is good we have a few different opinions of what people use on there machines great
i live in Australia by the way and well the most common oil i see is Castrol ....from memory we used Castrol Magnaglide D 68 in the CNC's at my old work so when i thought thats what i should use.... its just bloody expensive and i can only find it in 20liters
when i called Castrol they said i can use the D 68 in the gear boxes but i should use there high spin AWS 68 in the headstock ....that is easier i can get that in 4liters
and then the manual says i should change this oil in 3 months!!!! i don't know if i should flush out the oil that was put in it in the factory for 3 moths im sure its nearly a year old now? so ill simplify my questions
1) should i leave the oil that was put in it in the factory for another 3 months?
2) should i just get the 20liters of Magnaglide D 68 and use it on the ways?
3) in 3 months can i put the Magnaglide D 68 in the lower gearboxes and get the good stuff for the headstock?
i was joking about the old motor oil, no way im putting that in any of my machines. oh my lathe is a Chinese 12x36" lathe
i live in Australia by the way and well the most common oil i see is Castrol ....from memory we used Castrol Magnaglide D 68 in the CNC's at my old work so when i thought thats what i should use.... its just bloody expensive and i can only find it in 20liters
when i called Castrol they said i can use the D 68 in the gear boxes but i should use there high spin AWS 68 in the headstock ....that is easier i can get that in 4liters
and then the manual says i should change this oil in 3 months!!!! i don't know if i should flush out the oil that was put in it in the factory for 3 moths im sure its nearly a year old now? so ill simplify my questions
1) should i leave the oil that was put in it in the factory for another 3 months?
2) should i just get the 20liters of Magnaglide D 68 and use it on the ways?
3) in 3 months can i put the Magnaglide D 68 in the lower gearboxes and get the good stuff for the headstock?
i was joking about the old motor oil, no way im putting that in any of my machines. oh my lathe is a Chinese 12x36" lathe
rake60
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None of my hobby machines require headstock or quill oil.
The only oil in my hobby shop is non-detergent 20Wt motor oil.
It is used on the ways of all my machine and occasionally as a cutting
oil. That is NOT the best cutting fluid by an means but anything
is better than nothing.
Rick
The only oil in my hobby shop is non-detergent 20Wt motor oil.
It is used on the ways of all my machine and occasionally as a cutting
oil. That is NOT the best cutting fluid by an means but anything
is better than nothing.
Rick
GWRdriver
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I've always been told it's not good to use anything containing sulphur (specifically hypoid gear oil) on anything but gears. I don't like the acrid smell of it so I never had a problem NOT using it.New_Guy said:
Some years ago I went searching for the recommended lube for my British lathe (I'm in the USA) and the recommended oil for just about every part of it turned out to be regular old ISO68 hydraulic fluid which you can get practically everywhere. I first used it IN the lathe, then ON the lathe, then in the mill, and then on the mill, and then on this and that and now I use it for just about every general workshop lubrication job I have. I don't use it for specialized applications, like gearbox oil, or for cutting & threading, but for everything else it works great for me.
rcplanebuilder
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As stated above, ...ISO is the International Organization for Standardization, SAE is the Society of Automotive Engineers.
As pointed out, you can cross the numbers, and the simple version is that; the bigger the number, the thicker the oil with ISO, and SAE both. But the scales are different.
Hydraulic 32 is pretty light, ISO 150 is like honey. Tap heavy is like refrigerated molasses.
Correct, sulfides are hypoid agents, and they do work well. Old school. They do stink as the sulphur atoms get stripped off, as it leaves a "Sulphur" without a home. Rotten eggs, burnt matches. But synthetics still have hypoid agents, they are just synthetic polyesters, (and stuff), so with gear lubes, they still offer hypoid protection, they just don't stink anymore, and don't coke up.
Bear in mind, that my suggestion takes into account, that standard motor oil is about the same viscosity as way lube 68, (a little thicker). When you do the math on surface area of a dovetail way or a gib, and the adhesive qualities of scraped ways, the pressure per square inch, and adhesion of the ways, makes light work of an oil that is designed for high loads and high temps (motor oil).
Motor oil is always on the shelf in most garages, relatively cheap, and it is as easy as grabbing some off the shelf, at least at my house. It also holds another virtue when living in winter climates with machines in cold garages, motor oil is "chemically enhanced" to simulate the virtues of a thinner oil at lower temperatures. IE, 5W(Winter)-30. Which means the oil acts as a thinner oil at cold temps (short version, lol) . Normal machine shop oils are single weight oils. When I need to mill something quickly, and it's 20 degrees F in the garage, I don't want to crank through molasses, nor bog down the table feed motor, nor wait 8 hours for everything to come up to temp. ;D
I haven't been here long enough to say for sure, but I am betting you won't find many takers that will tell you to put "anything but" what the manufacturer recommends in a 1 year old machine that is large enough for a wet gearbox, and wet spindle. It matters not, what we'd do, it's your call. But... I prefer using what is on my shelf, for home shop purposes. So long as it's "as good or better" than what comes out of it, I'll run that. If you don't know for sure, and aren't trained in oils, use what they tell you to use, error to the safe side.
Your initial question made it sound like you were running basic used shop equipment with some miles on it, like many of us. and availability and price seemed to be the question. "is it good enough".
... Brand new stuff with a warranty is 100% your call. But without even looking up the exact specs, I'd put my money on a synthetic motor oil, and synthetic SAE gear lube, across the board, when compared to most way lubes et al.. There are some way lubes that are better than others, but mostly they are disposable cheap oils. #68 is pretty much just the weight of the oil, you can buy cheap 68 in any brand, or the buy the good stuff... But it's not an extreme duty oil by comparison.
Remember this too, most (if not all) big CNC's, which use 68, have ball bearing linear guides, not ways and gibs. Different deal from a basic mill. But why wouldn't they recommend it, since it's available in every machine shop? ...Doesn't mean it's the best, or only, option. In the end, it's always your call though.
Another quick point of view to ponder, is to consider the gearbox in your home shop mill, vs. the gearbox or differential in your vehicle. Which needs severe duty lube more? Of course, the diffy in your truck needs way better hypoid protection, and is in a much harsher environment, ergo, the lube in there has to be pretty good stuff. ...But who would ever put synthetic diffy juice into a machine at the shop, when there is a 55 gallon drum of the recommended oil right there on the shop floor. At home, in the basement, the 55 gallon drum of that lube is not there. So, is there any reason to go out of your way to get it? IMO, No. Just be careful when substituting.
As pointed out, you can cross the numbers, and the simple version is that; the bigger the number, the thicker the oil with ISO, and SAE both. But the scales are different.
Hydraulic 32 is pretty light, ISO 150 is like honey. Tap heavy is like refrigerated molasses.
Correct, sulfides are hypoid agents, and they do work well. Old school. They do stink as the sulphur atoms get stripped off, as it leaves a "Sulphur" without a home. Rotten eggs, burnt matches. But synthetics still have hypoid agents, they are just synthetic polyesters, (and stuff), so with gear lubes, they still offer hypoid protection, they just don't stink anymore, and don't coke up.
Bear in mind, that my suggestion takes into account, that standard motor oil is about the same viscosity as way lube 68, (a little thicker). When you do the math on surface area of a dovetail way or a gib, and the adhesive qualities of scraped ways, the pressure per square inch, and adhesion of the ways, makes light work of an oil that is designed for high loads and high temps (motor oil).
Motor oil is always on the shelf in most garages, relatively cheap, and it is as easy as grabbing some off the shelf, at least at my house. It also holds another virtue when living in winter climates with machines in cold garages, motor oil is "chemically enhanced" to simulate the virtues of a thinner oil at lower temperatures. IE, 5W(Winter)-30. Which means the oil acts as a thinner oil at cold temps (short version, lol) . Normal machine shop oils are single weight oils. When I need to mill something quickly, and it's 20 degrees F in the garage, I don't want to crank through molasses, nor bog down the table feed motor, nor wait 8 hours for everything to come up to temp. ;D
I haven't been here long enough to say for sure, but I am betting you won't find many takers that will tell you to put "anything but" what the manufacturer recommends in a 1 year old machine that is large enough for a wet gearbox, and wet spindle. It matters not, what we'd do, it's your call. But... I prefer using what is on my shelf, for home shop purposes. So long as it's "as good or better" than what comes out of it, I'll run that. If you don't know for sure, and aren't trained in oils, use what they tell you to use, error to the safe side.
Your initial question made it sound like you were running basic used shop equipment with some miles on it, like many of us. and availability and price seemed to be the question. "is it good enough".
... Brand new stuff with a warranty is 100% your call. But without even looking up the exact specs, I'd put my money on a synthetic motor oil, and synthetic SAE gear lube, across the board, when compared to most way lubes et al.. There are some way lubes that are better than others, but mostly they are disposable cheap oils. #68 is pretty much just the weight of the oil, you can buy cheap 68 in any brand, or the buy the good stuff... But it's not an extreme duty oil by comparison.
Remember this too, most (if not all) big CNC's, which use 68, have ball bearing linear guides, not ways and gibs. Different deal from a basic mill. But why wouldn't they recommend it, since it's available in every machine shop? ...Doesn't mean it's the best, or only, option. In the end, it's always your call though.
Another quick point of view to ponder, is to consider the gearbox in your home shop mill, vs. the gearbox or differential in your vehicle. Which needs severe duty lube more? Of course, the diffy in your truck needs way better hypoid protection, and is in a much harsher environment, ergo, the lube in there has to be pretty good stuff. ...But who would ever put synthetic diffy juice into a machine at the shop, when there is a 55 gallon drum of the recommended oil right there on the shop floor. At home, in the basement, the 55 gallon drum of that lube is not there. So, is there any reason to go out of your way to get it? IMO, No. Just be careful when substituting.
wow thanks for the explanation i think i get it now sorry if my first post was some what misleading its kinda odd i didnt expect people would be use motor oil to much
i had taken apart my compound slide ages ago to see how dirty it was inside the machine (brand new remember from China) i had resisted putting it back together untill i had the oil so i gave the motor oil a try and i dont think it went to bad i can see now why you guys use it but i think ill still look for a hydraulic oil oh the manual didnt specify an oil for the lathe just an ISO 68 for the headstock no one knew what i should be looking for and even when i called Castrol they thought it was odd so advised there own brand but i feel any hydraulic oil will do me
should i worry about changing the headstock oil now or will any grit just settle down as the gears are run in?
i had taken apart my compound slide ages ago to see how dirty it was inside the machine (brand new remember from China) i had resisted putting it back together untill i had the oil so i gave the motor oil a try and i dont think it went to bad i can see now why you guys use it but i think ill still look for a hydraulic oil oh the manual didnt specify an oil for the lathe just an ISO 68 for the headstock no one knew what i should be looking for and even when i called Castrol they thought it was odd so advised there own brand but i feel any hydraulic oil will do me
should i worry about changing the headstock oil now or will any grit just settle down as the gears are run in?
Maryak
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GWRdriver said:
Neat cutting oils may be "sulphurised" depending on the severity of the cutting operation and usually are "sulphurised" for broaching in a production environment. Sulphur is a very good EP, (extreme pressure), additive in mineral oil and as AGMA gear oils go from GL1 to GL6 the sulphur goes from 0 and increases in %age through the range.
Best Regards
Bob
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Bob,
When I first got into this I was told I must also have "cutting oil" for drilling and tapping and not knowing any better what I was handed was a tin of the heavy sulphurized oil used for pipe threading machines. This looked like molasses and didn't work well for model work (and it stunk!) What I recall being told about sulphurized oil was not that it didn't lubricate sufficiently or cause chemical harm but that over time it would allow moisture to get in where it wasn't wanted. In those days some of us only had a barn, shed, or moldy basement for workshop space so moisture protection was a concern. When I need moisture protection these days I use CRC-336 (my favorite) or Starrett M-1.
When I first got into this I was told I must also have "cutting oil" for drilling and tapping and not knowing any better what I was handed was a tin of the heavy sulphurized oil used for pipe threading machines. This looked like molasses and didn't work well for model work (and it stunk!) What I recall being told about sulphurized oil was not that it didn't lubricate sufficiently or cause chemical harm but that over time it would allow moisture to get in where it wasn't wanted. In those days some of us only had a barn, shed, or moldy basement for workshop space so moisture protection was a concern. When I need moisture protection these days I use CRC-336 (my favorite) or Starrett M-1.
