tools for a newb the essentials.

[Speedy]

so its about time I look into tooling ;D
soon my Taig will be on its new home bench and ready to work!

I was hoping that you guys could help me make a shopping list.
I wont go out and buy everything at once but I will refer to this for classified shopping

I want to make a trip to a local tool store. my dad stumbled onto these carbide cutters on sale
http://busybeetools.ca/cgi-bin/picture10?NTITEM=B2122 (look alright?)
I also plan to get some 1/4 key stock for grinding.

also if anyone has anything that they arent using can you please contact me

I know I have been doing allot of thanking, but you guys have been very helpful :bow:
I also wanted to send out a special thank you to RobWilson, he has cleared up some questions and help me out on some tools

regards
Michael

 

[Foozer]

so its about time I look into tooling ;D
soon my Taig will be on its new home bench and ready to work!

When I first started to acquire tools and such for the lathe, I was just sticking the not in use items into a cabinet nearby . Slowly as more bits and pieces were acquired, the cabinet filled up, but hey, got the work bench off to the right. Slowly it began to pile up with bits and pieces, but hey, got the work table in the middle of the barn. Slowly . . . see where its going

Finally after sitting on the stool laughing at myself, waiting for the guys with the white coat to appear, cant find a darn thing in the pile of precious rubble, time came to yard everything into one pile. Built a simple slant board and mounted it to the wall on the right side of lathe. (Point here is to avoid reaching over the business end of the lathe) Now in the process of, I'm using a tool, make a home for it. Common item goes within arms reach. Still doing this reduction of the self made chaos, but at least now I'm not hunting for that chuck key set down somewhere, it has a home when not in my hand.

As you acquire tooling, sit by the lathe and ponder the new tools usage. Find a home for it that is easy to send back to. The layout you develop will of course change over time. Study some of the pics shown by members here and you'll be amazed in the detail some go to regarding shop organization. Its not because they suffer some compulsive neatness behavior disorder, they just got tired of hunting for misplaced tools.

Enjoy the lathe, dont let it enjoy you

Robert

 

[Jadecy]

This may seem a little backward but I started out with a barstock project and as I looked over the plans I made a list of the tools I would need for each part. After you work your way through several projects you will have the essentials "YOU" need.

If you don't have a specific project in mind you can make a huge list and buy everything on that list and still not have that one little tool you need for your project.

When I bought my first set of numbered and lettered drill bits I bought the cheap set. Over time it becomes very apparent which ones get used the most on your projects and you replace those with higher quality bits. Things like this will save you from investing a bunch of money in things you don't really need.

Hope this helps! ;D

 

[Speedy]

those are actually very good points

but what about measurement and things along that line.
dial indicators, mics, etc not just the things that cut.
hight gauge, machinist square etc

I was thinking of tackling the webster 4 stroke but my lathe may be to small.

 

[Foozer]

those are actually very good points

but what about measurement and things along that line.
dial indicators, mics, etc not just the things that cut.
hight gauge, machinist square etc

Also a two category list, disposal and keepers.

Dial Indicators, should have list a couple of them are handy. make mounts for lathe to track the X-Y travel. Handy. Dont spend a fortune on em, consider them disposal tools.

DTI useful to zero in where a DI leaves off.

Maganitic base holder for the DI, DTI

Calipers. have some of those harbor fright ones and a good Starret one. Both brands return the same measurement but the better quality one is less finicky about setting a dimension.

Mics Use to zero in when the accuracy of caliper is not enough. Decent quality Starret, spends most time in its box.

Machinist square, No way around it, got to get a small set myself. Just to handy not to have.

Height gauge. I just use a piece of flat stock that was set on across the ways and scribed a line into it with the tail stock dead center. Change the cutting bit, grab the flat stock and bring tool point to scribe line. The shim stock 'tween tool bit and stock method nails it down closer if need be.

White Out that liquid stuff to cover over typewritten booboo's handy when drilling as a quick and simple depth mark where precision is not an issue. Want to drill an inch deep, little dab of whiteout on the bit and you have an indicator, wipes right off with ease.

Shim stock those little brass shim packs are handy, cut up soda cans etc. Little tackle box, some shim stock of various thicknesses, Some times with a three jaw you need to move the part over just a tad, shim one jaw and there you go.

One thing I have to make is a pump center, device to locate a stocks center mark divit in a 4 jaw. Something that i fail miserable at, avoid at all cost, but as time goes on the need to get that process down is becoming a must.

Like its been said, you can buy every tool in the book and still be short.

Decent DI, mic, and caliper will get you on the path. Sign up for the Little machine shop sales notices. Their stuff is reasonable and manage to survive my fat old five thumbed hands.

Robert

 

[arnoldb]

Foozer covered a couple of good ones.

For me, what I find most useful as a beginner is my digital vernier caliper, a short (6") steel rule, a pair of compasses, an odd-leg ("jenny") caliper, and a good scribe.
An easily-used center punch is a must - I find my "automatic" one to be extremely handy, as I can easily find center marks after marking out, and set it to low intensity for a first punch mark; if that's OK, Ill run over the workpiece with a higher setting on it, or use the higher punch settings with side-pressure
A set of engineers-squares (or at least the size(s) you are most likely to use) is a must - I only have 2, but use them all the time.
My "cheapy" magnetic base works well, though I have made new links and mountings for it.

For me, permanent markers to "colour" in workpieces substitutes well for layout dye ("dykem").

I have a 0-1" micrometer that I have rarely used; in most cases the digital caliper is enough. Last week I got a piece of nice glass to do marking out on; that helps a lot.

Depending on your budget, from here on you could buy just about anything you need, or with the basic tools, make what you need. All of the "clamping" kit I have is home made, almost all of my cutting bits are hand ground - for this the 150mm bench grinder with re-made(sturdier) tool posts is invaluable, as is a good quality oilstone.

Another part of kit I find invaluable is a 4" fine half-round file with a good handle, for deburring workpieces

Regards, Arnold

 

[Stan]

Being in Canada, you are at a distinct disadvantage for buying import tools. Busy Bee's price is usually outrageous. House of Tools is in bankruptcy clearance this week because they were higher priced than Busy Bee. Your selection in TO may be better than in Alberta, but the picking is still pretty slim. If you get a friend in the US, close to the border, to buy stuff for you and then you can make a weekend trip to bring it back. You can order some things from the US suppliers that will fit the USPS Flat Rate Boxes and the postage is US$23.00 if the supplier doesn't charge you a handling charge to stick the Custom's label on the box. UPS is out of the question with their brokerage fees which is usually more than the cost of the item.

As to your must have list. A caliper, and I prefer the dial type over the digital. I would also get a 0 - 1" mic, a 6" steel rule and at least one decent square. I looked at Busy Bee's squares this past week and the first ones I looked at at wavy blade edges when you held one to another. Buy some 1/4" HSS lathe bits (not keystock) and a book that tells you how to grind lathe bits. For this you will need a 6" bench grinder. Forget the carbide tools for now.
One of the big cheap sets of drill bits (fractional, number, letter) and some small taps (4, 6, 8, 10) with a tap wrench.

With these cheap import tools you will be able to make many models if you stick to 6061 aluminum, brass and leaded steel. Once you are involved in the hobby, you will always have an eye out for good quality tools, especially replacements for your cheap ones.

 

[Speedy]

Foozer
what is a DTI?
and "One thing I have to make is a pump center, device to locate a stocks center mark divit in a 4 jaw. Something that i fail miserable at, avoid at all cost, but as time goes on the need to get that process down is becoming a must."

Stan, I am fortunate to have a neighbor that I know very well, he does brokerage for himself and he drives to the border allot.
I guess I will have to buy stuff when he heads over to pick stuff up

anyone have any sites to companies I should order from close to the border (Buffalo/new york) I believe thats where he drives to.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Micheal:
A DTI is a dial test indicator.
When I set up shop I had been through a basic machining course And more or less tried to duplicate what was in the school box I know this dos not realy help you.
Jaydecees advise is pretty good.
I may duplicate here but will try not to.
As far as a mic make sure you get one that reads ten thousands of an inch or the metric equivalent.
You will need some way of measuring bores unless you plan to ream everything for a while then you will need reamers
A small T gage set should get you going.
Buy taps and dies as needed.
As far as the busy bee insert tool set I have a harbor freight version and set it aside I do not like it.
tin

 

[Speedy]

Tin thank you to me it seems exactly like a dial indicator but now I think I see the difference.

big problem guys!
I was talking with a fellow, he has a bunch of starrett stuff basically new that hes selling for like half price.
and lots of it is what you guys are telling me about.
examples
orange=not sures reds=not needed green=need
12" Electronic Caliper - $225 New List, Asking $150 ummmmmmm
Inside & Outside Calipers - Asking $20/pair dont need it
Telescoping Gage Set - $225 New List, Asking $140 ahhh.... hurmm
8m Chrome Tape Measure - $15 New List, Asking $10 dont need it
Tap Wrench - $ 40 New List, Asking $20 need also comes with free taps
4" Square - $185 New List, Asking $60 from the sounds of it, I need it
Utility Knife - Asking $5 dont need it
Thickness Gage Set - $51 New List, Asking $20 not sure, probably not
Electronic Indicator - $165 New List, Asking $120 need it
3-4" Micrometer (non-electronic) - Asking $80 not sure its big it seems?
More Tap Wenches $10-$20 nah, well maybe?
Various Mag Bases $40-$140 only the smallest one others are big

all starrett and pristine condition and some not even used. I like to dream sometimes.
im just wondering if I should get atleast the green ones? I know something so percise as starrett is probably overboard for a home machinist but they probably will last longer and if the prices are similar to mediocre quality then maybe I should go for them?
parents can help me out.

if I got the greens it would be $240 (he said he will do package prices so less then that)

again I have a feeling that this stuff will be overboard for the home machinist.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Speedy :
You need to decide. you will not get better quality than starrett and there is no better condition than mint.
so I guess that leaves how much of the list you want /need and what a fair price is.
Take care of the starret stuff and your grand kids can use it. One of my tool boxes and most of the contents is 65 plus years old and still in good condition.
tin

 

[Speedy]

great Tin.
I was hoping you were going to tell me dont do it! and save me some coin :big:
so the amount of precision starrett offers is still useful to us hobbyists.
I will give it a very hard thinking, right now it seems like allot but down the road I probably wouldn't be able to find anything like this again.

 

[zeeprogrammer]

What Tin said.

You may as well know that some of your purchase decisions are going to be 'best deal I ever made' and others are going to be 'rats...wish I'd known better'.

The fact that you're asking and checking guarantees that you're going to make some good decisions.

In most cases, even the poor decisions are still usable...and you have to wait a bit to get better stuff. Still...it's worth it.

I'm easily paralyzed into doing nothing...worrying about buying the right stuff. Worse thing that can happen.

Go for it. You'll make good decisions...and some bad ones. The good ones make it worthwhile. And you'll make them.

 

[Foozer]

all sounds good. Its the indicator that is ?? I use em on the lathe but they only have an inch travel. If I forget and i do Ill shove the plunger right into the body of the thing and POOF she broken. So the less expensive ones suffer my pocket but a band aids worth of pain, a hundred buck or so tool, call 911!!

Its a balance of usage and practicability, Some good quality stuff for finals and everyday off brands for general usage.

Oh ya dont forget the cooler for the liquid refreshments

Robert

 

[zeeprogrammer]

If I remember right...you're 18. Robert means...coke, root beer, dew...
For me...it's a root beer with a scoop of vanilla.
I may be a programmer...but it was never 'dew' for me.
Mmmm...that's got me thinking...A&W!...aw man it's been ages....

 

[vlmarshall]

mmm....Dew. ;D


I miss the A&W stands... rootbeer float and a 'slaw dog. Yum.


ON topic, and I hate to add to your shopping list, but I'd consider that 12" caliper... With only a 6" caliper around, it seems like everything you need to measure is 6.125".

 

[Tin Falcon]

I have some good indicators and some cheapness I can not say I see a major difference in them. All my electronic stuff is import like fozzer said you don't cry if one is accidentally dropped. My T gauges are starret.They are smooth in operation .I have pickup up and set down Harbor freight T gages more times than I can count the price is right but as i push on the plungers I can feel every ridge that is machined into the tool I do not trust them to be repeatable and accurate. I have other import tooling that is smooth as silk. I personally try to find quality used stuff for about the price of new import. that way I am not spending loads of money but still get good stuff. You will find your way in this hobby . and for every guy that says an import tool is junk you will find another that loves the same tool and finds it a good value.
That all said I do not think anyone is ever disappointed in the performance of top quality tools we may complain about the price or replacement cost should one get dropped but not the quality or performance.
As you start out get in the habit of setting tools in a safe place not sticking over the edge of a bench or other place that will allow them to get knocked on the floor. Get a shop cat they will teach you not to leave thing laying about that can get knocked over and lost or broken. just think ahead be careful and teach yourself good habits.
I just about cryed the day I was not paying attention and had a piece of thin brass stock sticking too far out the head stock. I spun up the rpm to polish, the metal bent and gouged a scar in the front of the antique oak machinist chest. I was glad I was not hurt but 60 year old cabinetry does not heal well. Oh well live and learn.

Tin

 

[Speedy]

did some fast research.
if purchased everything from busy bee or princess auto would come out to $308 (most no names or unknown)
if purchased from the starret seller $630 (need to see package deal)
and purchased new from starrett above $1000

the only thing I noticed while doing this, some of the prices for things I thought should be more money were actually dirt cheap.
6 piece telescoping gauge set was 30$!!!! im thinking cheap quality.

just to help me think. im doing allot of that ;D better now then when I find out things weren't worth it.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Not easy choices setting priorities for purchasing tools for example a 0-6 mic set can be had from enco for $80 bucks on sale I paid over a hundred for a well used starret set. I kick myself on a regular basis for not digging deep into my pockets to get a like new starret set for IIRC $250-275 when I had the chance. . A new starret set IIRC lists for over $1200.
Ultimatly you need to make a decision. Once made you may regret. It it may take years to decide if it was the best one.
Every person and shop will have slightly different experience, perspective and needs, You need to decide what is best for you.
The best advise I ever got from a manager when I asked him a question was" It is your job you figure it out. If I tell you how to do your job you will not like it."
Tin

 

[ksouers]

Speedy,
Don't forget to check Craig's List weekly.

I just look for the word "machinist". I've gotten lots of stuff from estate sales and run of the mill garage sales. There is (was?) lots of manufacturing here, (Boeing, Ford, Chrysler, GM, Sunnen, LeBarge, Fastenal ...) lots of it requiring precision tool and die work. Even the maintenance machinists are pretty well stocked as they'd often make replacement parts in the shop rather than hold up a line waiting for the parts to come on a truck.

I've also gotten lucky at the sales picking up some very good quality shop-made tools.



Kevin