Tools for a beginner

[bigsteve]

Okay;
I want to get into making model engines... but my garage is desperately short on tools. So... I'm getting my Christmas list together. Assuming my wife and parents will only have $500 or so to spend, what would you guys recommend? I'm thinking a good quality drill press, but would trying to find a low-end or used mill be a better bet? I want something that will also work well for woodworking. Any brand/model suggestions would be great also. Thanks!

 

[mklotz]

You'll get more germane advice if you amend your profile to include some idea of your location.

 

[Cedge]

BigSteve
I might get shot down on this one, but my own admittedly limited experience would force me to recommend going with the mill over the drill press. I have a mini mill and use it for darned near everything you can imagine. My drill presses only get used when the mill has a set up that I don't have time or don't want to tear down to drill a quick down and dirty hole. The mill can do all that a drill press can and more.... with higher accuracy.

Steve

 

[shred]

Maybe around Houston is better, but in central TX, there's not much in the way of good used mills unless you want to drop $1K+ on an old Bridgeport or the like, and then move and find a place to put the darn thing. Harbor Freight and the other importers have a range of Asian Mill/Drills, but the little ones are really small and the better sizes are $500+.

I'd look at maybe getting a lathe. The import 7x12's have a big following on the net and seem to be usable with a little work and would make for a good starter lathe. You can also find old 6x18 Atlas and the occasional used 9x20 Asian lathe in the $500 range around here. South Bends and larger US/UK lathes tend to go for $1K+. Many an engine has been made on just a lathe with a milling attachment. Woodworking is possible, but not really recommended on any of the metal tools.

Startup tooling costs are likely to be a little lower on a lathe, but still plan on spending some there.

Cheapy drill presses aren't hard to come by. I use a $40 tabletop model all the time for rough drilling work.

If the Houston metalwork club is still in operation, definately go by there.. they can set you straight with all the details on what to get and where and probably have members that are looking to sell some equipment

 

[rake60]

Welcome Steve

I have both a good drill press and a cheap import mini-mill.
The drill press has been powered up twice since I bought the mini-mill.
Inexpensive as it is, it does a better job as a drill press than the expensive
drill press does.
You might want to check out the mini-mill offered by Cummins Tool
It's the one I bought. It's the same machine that is sold by Harbor Freight

Rick

 

[wareagle]

There isn't a drill press in my shop. I use the mill for that purpose, and have rarely needed to have access to a drill press while having a set-up on the mill (in fact, only once).

If it were me, I would put the money into a lathe first as you can do some milling operations with it and this would get you rolling.

Take the advice about seeking out the metal working club. They can give you guidance in your tooling wish list.

By the way, welcome to the hobby! And to the site!

 

[macona]

First priority is a lathe. It is the one basic machine tool. With a lathe you can do anything. Its all a matter of setup.

Skip the Atlas. Garbage, pure and simple.

Look for a South Bend or Logan minimum. I have seen some go for around the $500 area with change gears, no power cross feed. You will need to be patient but something will come up. I have a bookmark for craigslist with the saved search keyword "lathe". Have cash in hand ready for a machine to pop up. You will need to be quick on the draw as the machines disappear fast.

Read up on how to check out a lathe. There are several sites on the subject.

Do not buy a project lathe. Many project lathes end up in pieces in a garage till you wife tells you to get rid of it and you end up selling it for half of what you have into it.

Then pick up a $39 HF mini-drill press. Good little press. You can make straight holes with it.

$500 is a drop in the pan for a lathe. I spent over $3000 on mine and had to drive 2000 miles round trip to get it. But its worth it.

 

[shred]

First priority is a lathe. It is the one basic machine tool. With a lathe you can do anything. Its all a matter of setup.

Skip the Atlas. Garbage, pure and simple.

I'll disagree some here.. an Atlas in good shape is a decent starter lathe-- plenty capable of making many model engines. Not so good for bigger work on tough materials, but for learning what knob to turn when and doing models in Al and brass with a little steel or cast iron here and there they're affordable and work pretty well. Easy to resell when a SB or Logan comes around. I'd avoid the non-Atlas Craftsman "AA" lathes-- I've seen good work come from those too, but it takes more skill to work around the limitations.

Look for a South Bend or Logan minimum. I have seen some go for around the $500 area with change gears, no power cross feed. You will need to be patient but something will come up. I have a bookmark for craigslist with the saved search keyword "lathe". Have cash in hand ready for a machine to pop up. You will need to be quick on the draw as the machines disappear fast.

So fast I've never seen one.. I've never seen a SB or Logan on any Craigslist in Texas south of Waco listed under $900 and I search several of them every day or more (I mention this solely so Murphy will cause some to be posted, which I can then go out and snap up ). They're also not something easy to go get a relative for X-mas, but being close to Houston helps a lot-- there and DFW is where 95% of the machines seem t o be.

Do not buy a project lathe. Many project lathes end up in pieces in a garage till you wife tells you to get rid of it and you end up selling it for half of what you have into it.

agree.. get something you can use with minimal extra effort or hunting down parts. This means you may have to pass on some of the killer deals as well if it's missing something important.

 

[Bogstandard]

I have to put my comments in here.
This poor lad is trying to set up a basic workshop to make little engines on a limited budget.
You are giving him some good info but also bad, very confusing for him.
You are even sending him down the road of waiting for the right machine to turn up and spend thousands on it.
In his price range he has very little choice, so please give him info he can use, not pie in the sky that he has no way of reaching yet.
I have no idea what things cost in the states, but I am sure you gents will be able to put him back on the right track.
I would just like to say, if I was starting out right now on a limited budget, the first thing I would buy would be the best import lathe I could afford, and include the basic tooling in that, and a small cheap drill press. You can make a small engine with just a lathe if you know how to do it, but very difficult to make one with just a miller, without a load of tooling. At least you will be able to make something rather than having to wait until you get the money together to buy a perfect workshop. All the other bits can come as you get the money together and gain experience.

John

 

[Cedge]

John excellent points and well taken. All of us would love to own a Monarch or SB, but the reality is that few of us will. I'm debating a purchase of a table top SB I've been offered, but have to weigh space, power source and cost to see if it will work.

Back to the basic question at hand... If I had to make a choice of which tool to first buy on a small budget, I'd have to go with a small chinese lathe. Hmmm... that is, in fact, how I began tooling up. You can buy these small lathes from a variety of sources ranging from a bit over $300.00 up to a bit over $600.00. They are all made by the same Chinese company, but the importers are able to specify finish quality and tools included to fit their own budgets. A $300.00 lathe and a $600.00 lathe differ quite a bit on fit and finish, as well as out of the box usability. This is true across the range between those two prices.

With a small milling attachment, you can do some limited milling and you can do a lot of drilling on a lathe. You'll still eventually want to add a small mill to your arsenal.

I opted to buy my own lathe and mini mill from [url]www.MicroMark.com[/url] and have never regretted the purchase. After hearing horror stories about misfitted parts and replacement part woes from other sellers, I was more than happy to do the few tweaks mine required to get running. MM has been johnny on the spot to back their products and solve any problems that arose. Not something I've heard where cheaper sellers were involved.

MM also carries a huge array of tooling for these little machines, as does www.LittleMachineShop.com . I'm not associated with either company, but I am a very satisfied customer of both.


Without any apology to big machine tool purists with bigger tools, bigger budgets and bigger shops than mine...LOL. We poor boys wanna play too.

Steve

 

[1Kenny]

I am sure I will get a lashing for this, but here goes. The trouble with a lot of old lathes is things are missing from them, worn out or broken. Look at a new or mabe lightly used import with attachments and the change gear box built in. Then start building engines. The last thing you want to do is overhaul or find a missing change gear for an old lathe. Another thing I don't like about the older lathes is the spindle bore is too small, look for the biggest bore you can find as it is easier to make a long shaft shorter.

The Grizzly site has a few you can look at to give you a idea of what will meet your needs. One of their models I am looking at is the G0602 as it has a 1" bore, but it is around a grand. You can use a lathe as a drill press.

By looking around you may find a used drill press for dirt cheep. The head may have a little slop but if you shake the head on a new one it will be sloppy too. Must be the way they make them.

Kenny

 

[lugnut]

Just for kicks I looked on Craigs list for a lathe and Mini Mill . These two machines are both in Houston only 85 miles from bigsteve's area
The mill is $325 and the Lathe $350. There are small cheap useable machines out there if you go and look. Just have to remember that us poor folks have poor ways.
Mel :roll:


http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/466004086.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/466004086.html

 

[mklotz]

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=110-0800&PMPXNO=1617068&PARTPG=INLMK3

$400 and free shipping through 12/31/07 if you use code HFSP27.

 

[1Kenny]

Hey Lugnut,

Thats what I am talking about. That would be a great start for someone.

Kenny

 

[Bogstandard]

Now we're getting to it lads, the right info, and all Steve has to do is make his final choice (and get the money together).

Many thanks

John

 

[rake60]

For a single machine to start a shop, a lathe would definitely be the first
choice. I obviously miss-read the original post.

A lathe is the ONLY machine that can reproduce it's self.
That statement alone should tell its versatility.


Rick

 

[shred]

Just for kicks I looked on Craigs list for a lathe and Mini Mill . These two machines are both in Houston only 85 miles from bigsteve's area
The mill is $325 and the Lathe $350. There are small cheap useable machines out there if you go and look. Just have to remember that us poor folks have poor ways.
Mel :roll:


http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/466004086.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/tls/466004086.html

I think that's a sign. They weren't there when I made my last post..

 

[georgeseal]

Just remember guys

They use to make alot of machinery with breast drills, files and cold chisles.

The old ways still work but are time comsumming

what we do in our home shop would not be tolerated in industry.
I have been working on a set of 7 A cylinders for two months but I am working at my own enjoyment.
This is not directed at the indvigal who works in their home shop for money. You have a professional shop that is located in your home and not a home shop. We with home shops do it because we love it.
Therfor we dont need the fastest and latest tools and machines

As far as the Atlas being junk. Mine has done every thing I have asked it to for the last 30 years. But then again NASA has not called for me to make any parts for the Hubble

LET The FLAMES BEGAIN

George

 

[1Kenny]

With all the high dollar machines that were used on the Hubble they still mis-machined the mirrors.

 

[ronm]

Skip the Atlas. Garbage, pure and simple.

.

That statement is elitist garbage, pure & simple. I wouldn't trade my late Atlas craftsman 12" for any half-dozen Chicom POS's on the market. The only thing it CAN'T do is hog off 1/2" in one cut, but who in a home shop needs to do that? I'll venture a guess that more models & home hobby-type projects have been made on an Atlas lathe than any other. Of course, they have their limitations, but what doesn't? the Dunlop 109 craftsman, I have to admit, is pretty close to nothing, but don't overlook the Atlas...
Ron in CO...