The arrogance of some people

[Tin Falcon]

A craftsman should be judged by his work. I dare say few if any of the members and moderators of that other board are at the level to be accepted by the internet craftsmanship museum.
I will take an armature machinist (one who machines because they love it an want to ) over a professional (one who does it for money) just about any day. We need the guys that can make hundreds of parts a day on a CNC machine. but that does not necessarily make them a machinist.
Keep your chin up George you are loved and have a home here. Your work speaks for itself. and for those who are not familiar with Georges work look here.http://craftsmanshipmuseum.com/Britnell.htm
Tin

 

[dvbydt]

George,

Like the others have said, arrogance, officiousness, bigotry and ignorance are characteritics shown by people who have got themselves into a position of minor authority and don't realy have the qualifications or experience to be there. Just don't let them get to you.

That said, most engineers, me included, tend to exhibit a degree of self confidence bordering on arrogance based on years (over 50 in my case) of completing projects. Otherwise where would the courage to start on a complicated design exercise come from?

I visit this site regularly for the same reasons I used to read The Model Engineer magazine, I admire the solutions used to solve problems building projects, especially when things go wrong. "Them as don't make mistakes will never make anything."

On your mill question, I have a Chester 626, Grizzly equivalent G3103 with VFD and 3 axis DRO's and it has served me very well.

Ian

 

[dsquire]

George

There is not much that I can add that has not already been said. HMEM is what it is because of Great members such as you. Your builds give us something to work up to and your answers help the rest of us learn how to build like George. You definitely are noticed at HMEM and appreciated. Keep the builds coming George, we love to watch them materialize out of a block of steel or aluminum. :bow: :bow:

Cheers

Don

 

[steamer]

Hi Kvom,

I agree, the site has good sections....we know which ones those are... ;D

I am friends with some of the Mods, and many members....but I've seen the behavior before.

It's too bad that some apples spoil it for the bunch....some of the content is really useful...

But if you P(@&# off our George...well....Makes me say bad words!


Dave

 

[GWRdriver]

That said, most engineers, me included, tend to exhibit a degree of self confidence bordering on arrogance based on years (over 50 in my case) of completing projects.

Ian,
IMHO you have really hit at one of the key components of the matter, or a closely related matter, here. There are many people who are unable distinguish between the self-assuredness which proceeds from educuation and experience and "arrogance." My parents were a good example. In later years I realized they were unable to distinguish between self-assuredness (as demonstrated by professional people - doctors, etc) and arrogance and condescention. The problem was theirs not anyone else's. On the other side of the coin, there are ways to demonstrate one's education, experience, and authority without coming off as arrogant.

 

[rake60]

Actually, l give a big Hats Off Salute to "forum X" and it's Old Boys Elitist Club.

I didn't like the way people were treated there, (including myself), so I decided to try and build
a hobby machining forum with a totally different outlook.

It has it's bumps and bruises but all in all I think it's working well.

We can be hard on members here as well!
Join up with a questionable or known spam IP or username and our guys are on it immediately!
But, for well intended members, we will NEVER become "forum X".

Rick

 

[Lamachina58]

I'm not sure what forum is in offense , but I must say as a complete newbie who admits to being that guy who puts a topic up the day I discovered this forum, I have been amazed at the workmanship , acceptance and conversations on this site. I am humbled mostly by the craftsman who does with the simplest mill or only the lathe and a file what I could only dream of. When a guy asks about a grizzly mill, hats off, he will do only better in his craft.
I have been blessed with good fortune in the tools I have today but it all started when my dad got me an emco v10. I encourage my students today to begin with any tools they can and focus on the craft. Thankfully we have our hands,minds and freedom to create. This is an awesome forum full of incredible work.
It truly is an archive worth savoring.

 

[Tin Falcon]

Lets face it we all started out as knowing nothing about machining or internet forum protocol.
I happen to be blessed with mechanical aptitude . Maxed out the mechanical section on the ASVAB(Armed Services Vocational Aptitude battery. an aptitude test given to all applying for US military service.) then was trained by the US Air force in machining and welding.
My first post to an internet hobby machining forum was ...Gasp ...answering a question. (how dare I)I was greeted by the resident troll at the time with a who the H*LL are you post . and a how dare you invade my cyberspace attitude. I continued to post there for a long time and gained the respect and support of others there. I was and still is a great hobby Machinist board. If you are thick skinned and willing to persevere.
Since Rick started this one I have hung my cyber hat here. The rules here are pretty simple respect others. Have a teachable attitude and do not teach unsafe practices. I like the family friendly all are welcome attitude. As I have said a place safe for women ,children and small animals.
Tin

 

[rleete]

As I have said a place safe for women ,children and small animals.

And therefore, more likely to bring someone new into the hobby. If you're afraid to ask questions, you aren't going to learn very fast. And, chance are, leave before you get too far. Sometimes the "stupid" question isn't, if you don't have the proper background. I'm about as mechanically oriented as they make 'em, but that doesn't mean I don't have something to learn when it comes to machining.

Best leave the self important "experts" to wallow in their own sty.

 

[Tin Falcon]

I like the family friendly all are welcome attitude. As I have said a place safe for women ,children and small animals.

And therefore, more likely to bring someone new into the hobby. If you're afraid to ask questions, you aren't going to learn very fast.

Exactly My wife reads the board on occasion. She attends shows with me and explains to the crowds how our engines work . I say our engines because my wife and son have both built there own. i have been at shows and have seen some young girls that were excited about building simple model engines. this does not need to be an old mans hobby .but it will be if the young ones are put off or chased off.
There are several instructors here. This and other forums should be a friendly place for students to learn. a supplemental resource ifyou will.
Tin .

 

[Lew Hartswick]

As an electrical engineer friend of mine once said when some one ask him if he could
fix their TV set, "Would you ask a brain surgeon to butcher a cow" . The same sort
thinking should be considered when posting questions on a bulletin board.
Or as Gilbert and Sullivan wrote quite a while ago. " Let the punishment fit the crime".
ie. ask an appropriate Bulletin Board for an appropriate question.
...lew...

 

[zeeprogrammer]

Yep. It's "how" you teach. Not what you know.
As odd as it may sound...a good teacher doesn't necessarily have to know the subject.

Ideally I want a good teacher with knowledge.
Next I'll take a good teacher with poor knowledge.
I have issues with a poor teacher with a lot of experience.
Better than nothing...but I'm more interested in learning the subject...not how to stroke the person's ego. Wanting to learn should be sufficient for that.

Course it's never so black and white. Sometimes that 'bad' teacher has some valuable knowledge you can't get elsewhere. Shame though.

 

[Cedge]

Members should speak up when the experienced guys beat up on the newbies.

The new guy is sacrosanct on this board. Bruise one at your own peril. Just ask those who've earned permanent bans for doing so. You'll find them quite easily on one of the other hobby machinist boards. They're the ones who are vehemently anti-HMEM, because we would'nt let them abuse the less experienced. Others were banned for putting down those who can't afford, can't fit or otherwise don't use/own large american iron. Both groups include a number of grizzled metal veterans.

Rick was predicted to rapidly fail when he opened this board.... by many of those same people. Later, some of them migrated over and tried to turn it into a mirror image of what many of us had left behind. Those were days of very strong words and some pretty hard feelings, but Rick stayed the course and over time the problem children were weeded out. We've always tried to avoid banning active members and much anguished discussion went into it each time the decision was required.

Today, I'd say the results of Rick's "failure" can boldly speak for themselves. I'd like to thank Rick publicly for his ongoing supportive stance, his hard work and the personal expense he shoulders, so that we have such a great place to enjoy and learn these black arts.

Steve

 

[Maryak]

Today, I'd say the results of Rick's "failure" can boldly speak for themselves. I'd like to thank Rick publicly for his ongoing supportive stance, his hard work and the personal expense he shoulders, so that we have such a great place to enjoy and learn these black arts.

Steve

YES

Best Regards
Bob

 

[shred]

Different people learn different ways.. different teachers teach different ways. It's when the wrong pairing comes up that you have issues.

I think Rick and the moderators have done a great job keeping the spirit and direction alive. They do act as needed, though it's mostly invisible to the average user (you see it in "heavy-handed" complaints elsewhere). As Cedge says, people occasionally try and make it go the way they think it should be, but that doesn't usually last long. A big :bow: for them.

FWIW, I see the newbies that tend to do well here are those that realize they need to start small and listen a lot, while still keeping the dream of doing fancy stuff alive. As one not too long ago, it's easy to underestimate the experience and knowledge needed even for simple looking engines. "Drill a hole through a block of solid metal and not only is the hole not straight, but it's not the same size as the drill either?!?!".

 

[Cedge]

Ok boys and girls..... time to back off and take a deep breath. Personalities are getting in the way of home shop machining. I don't want to have to lock the thread but It only takes one click of the mouse. Settle it on PM or drop it.

Steve

 

[tel]

Wot Steve said!

 

[Maryak]

OK this is a hobby forum not a place for any form of contest. The thread is locked after deletion of the offending posts.

Bob